Thread: OT - opening up as best we can. AKA - is it still just the seasonal flu?

Originally Posted by Trueturning

Only big one is that you hate the position of the Pres. And Trump himself.

I do not hate the position of the presidency. I don't think anyone does. Now the current occupant does not elicit hate from me. Hate is pretty strong word. I dislike him because of his ways. You know what they are, I don't have to spell it out for you. Some people refuse to recognize them. When they do, they make up excuses for his behavior.

Originally Posted by hanermo

Scott -- You are wrong on facts.
On avg. 30.000 people die in the US from a flu.
Per year.
In 5-6-7-8 months 210.000 people have died by 10/2020 of cv19.

No, you are the one who is wrong. 200,000 plus did NOT die OF cv19, many of them died of other causes with cv19 present or suspected* to be present.

I knew two elderly who officially "died of Covid" but their families say they died of their preexisting fatal conditions, as had been already expected by early 2020. In short, these people had already been declared terminally ill by their doctors well before cv19 became an issue, with death expected "within weeks or maybe months".

In the USA there are strong financial motives for institutions such as hospitals to report deaths as "due to covid". Under current rules (the CARES Act) Medicare reimburses at a 20% higher rate for patients admitted to a hospital with COVID-19, and there is a $100 Billion dollar fund created to reimburse hospitals at Medicare rates for uninsured patients with COVID-19. Normally, any hospital which is a nonprofit (most of them) must "eat" the costs of treating the uninsured.

Hospital Payments and the COVID-19 Death Count - FactCheck.org

'The CARES Act created the 20% add-on to be paid for Medicare patients with COVID-19. The act further created a $100 billion fund that is being used to financially assist hospitals — a “portion” of which will be “used to reimburse healthcare providers, at Medicare rates, for COVID-related treatment of the uninsured,” according to the U.S. Department of Health and Human Services.'

*https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/nvss/vsrg/vsrg03-508.pdf

'In cases where a definite diagnosis of COVID–19 cannot
be made, but it is suspected or likely (e.g., the circumstances
are compelling within a reasonable degree of certainty), it
is acceptable to report COVID–19 on a death certificate as
“probable” or “presumed.”'

While the death certificate may say “probable” or “presumed", the death WILL be listed in the official tally as a death from cv19.

Originally Posted by hanermo

Curiously, for some reason the africans simply are not too vulnerable.
By about 10x - 100x.

One of the research studies that came out about 2 weeks ago was looking at the genetics of covid deaths, what they found was that people with neanderthal genes were more likely to have a bad outcome. The only population in the world that does not have neanderthal genes is in Africa, and it has been postulated that this may be why they are not vulnerable.

ScottL
Do you have spreadsheets and the medical records showing how many deaths are not covid but are being counted as covid, or are you just pulling facts out of your ass? Or just regurgitating what you hear on Fox news?

Originally Posted by hanermo

Scott -- You are wrong on facts.
On avg. 30.000 people die in the US from a flu.
Per year.
In 5-6-7-8 months 210.000 people have died by 10/2020 of cv19.

The death rate so far is somewhat stable, and indicates 1M - 2M US dead within 2 years - unless a miracle occurs.
Deaths track contagions and contagions are increasing, exponentially with a small exponent.

Corona has killed about 7-10x more people than any flu, by popula, by year.
210.000 vs 30.000 is 7x more.

But that is per past--
in current reality corona is killing about 500.000 / year run-rate.
The past 7 months data is with no general spread.
In the US.
It is expected the rate can double, or double twice, soonish.
This has happened elsewhere with popula who don´t care.
Like india.

Curiously, for some reason the africans simply are not too vulnerable.
By about 10x - 100x.

Hanermo, you really need to clean you crystal ball!
First - according to you prediction from 4 years ago - VW sholuld be bankrupt, out of business, only to be found in history books.
Then - again your prediction form 3 years ago - Tesla should be selling millions of their aggregate models annually by now.

But let's take your "facts" about the flu shall we?

There are 50-55K annual deaths in the US that are directly contributed to the flu.
Then, there are 150 - 155K annual deaths in the US that are contributed to respiratory diseases.

So, since we're - at this day and age anyway - count death by food poisoning while quarantining at home due to positive Covid-19 as a coronavirus death,
it's only fair that we combine the flu and the respiratory causes as a comparison.

Originally Posted by hanermo

Curiously, for some reason the africans simply are not too vulnerable.
By about 10x - 100x.

Oh boy!
You're in the doghouse now!
You should learn the facts - as reported by US media - that minorities are 10X more vulnerable than other ethnic groups.
But if that wasn't enough, minorities are 1000x more likely to die from Covid than white, christian, heterosexual males!

Originally Posted by dalmatiangirl61

ScottL
Do you have spreadsheets and the medical records showing how many deaths are not covid but are being counted as covid, or are you just pulling facts out of your ass? Or just regurgitating what you hear on Fox news?

Don't forget the UK made up figures!
Gov *top* adviser doing the press briefing (the one with a lot of shares in GSK - the vaccine company.... ).
ONS = Office for National Statistics, which is where all the figures come from... Emily Cockrill - When you sign your own death certificate,... | Facebook

Originally Posted by CalG

This goes to the meme seen about these days...

"It's not the tax records of the established millionaire that enters politics at a 200K salary we need to see.
It is the tax records of politicians who came with nothing, and are now multi-millionairs on a less than 200k salary."

Some things just don't add straight.

I wonder how many career politicians above the rank of small town mayor DO NOT have wealth and a lifestyle far and above what the typical person earning their salary does. I bet the answer is slim to none.

Originally Posted by dalmatiangirl61

ScottL
Do you have spreadsheets and the medical records showing how many deaths are not covid but are being counted as covid, or are you just pulling facts out of your ass? Or just regurgitating what you hear on Fox news?

No need for spreadsheets or Fox, the CDC guidelines will do just fine.

Originally Posted by dalmatiangirl61

One of the research studies that came out about 2 weeks ago was looking at the genetics of covid deaths, what they found was that people with neanderthal genes were more likely to have a bad outcome. The only population in the world that does not have neanderthal genes is in Africa, and it has been postulated that this may be why they are not vulnerable.

ScottL
Do you have spreadsheets and the medical records showing how many deaths are not covid but are being counted as covid, or are you just pulling facts out of your ass? Or just regurgitating what you hear on Fox news?

Of course I don't have the medical records because AS YOU WELL KNOW they are confidential and not made available to the public nor to most researchers. What I DO have, and have repeatedly posted links to same on this and the other covid threads, is numerous government and medical journal sources that show the confusing and contradictory details as to how the various numbers that we see on the news are created.

But it doesn't matter because people like you will watch your local Channel whatever "news" and accept all those figures as absolute truth, and don't ever bother to actually READ and follow those links because it takes too much effort. If you DID take the time to do the research what you would discover is that many of the figures are based on estimates and calculation models rather than on hard data.

A so-called pandemic where the majority of people who "get infected" (test positive) never even develop any symptoms is no pandemic at all but rather an epidemic of public hysteria based on 24/7 coverage based on "numbers" that bear little relation to real world observable facts.

And it is not their first attempt at creating such fear, with limited previous success at inciting fear of Swine Flu, SARS, and even Ebola. Back in the 80s it was the AIDS scare, which according to "experts" like Dr. Fauci was going to kill a significant percentage of the American population. Until now, "Y2K" was their greatest success.

Originally Posted by SeymourDumore

Oh boy!
You're in the doghouse now!
You should learn the facts - as reported by US media - that minorities are 10X more vulnerable than other ethnic groups.
But if that wasn't enough, minorities are 1000x more likely to die from Covid than white, christian, heterosexual males!

Actually, death rate among American blacks probably bears little relation to Africa because of differences in diet and lifestyle. Modern Africans are the descendants of the people who SURVIVED the numerous disease threats they face on that continent and likely have robust immune systems. They also generally have a much lower BMI than American blacks and obesity increases risk for any number of health problems.

Originally Posted by Scottl

Actually, death rate among ....

Sorry, forgot the

Originally Posted by Scottl

Of course I don't have the medical records because AS YOU WELL KNOW they are confidential and not made available to the public nor to most researchers. What I DO have, and have repeatedly posted links to same on this and the other covid threads, is numerous government and medical journal sources that show the confusing and contradictory details as to how the various numbers that we see on the news are created.

But it doesn't matter because people like you will watch your local Channel whatever "news" and accept all those figures as absolute truth, and don't ever bother to actually READ and follow those links because it takes too much effort. If you DID take the time to do the research what you would discover is that many of the figures are based on estimates and calculation models rather than on hard data.

A so-called pandemic where the majority of people who "get infected" (test positive) never even develop any symptoms is no pandemic at all but rather an epidemic of public hysteria based on 24/7 coverage based on "numbers" that bear little relation to real world observable facts.

And it is not their first attempt at creating such fear, with limited previous success at inciting fear of Swine Flu, SARS, and even Ebola. Back in the 80s it was the AIDS scare, which according to "experts" like Dr. Fauci was going to kill a significant percentage of the American population. Until now, "Y2K" was their greatest success.

So you are pulling numbers out of your ass again?

No two countries are reporting the same way, here in the USA we cannot even get 2 states to agree on how the data is collected/reported, I agree this does make things confusing, but in NO WAY justifies some of your claims that its all non-cv cases reported as cv cases, you DO NOT have the facts to substantiate your claims.

Local news, ugh, you might want to look at a map of where I am, there is no "local" news station here. I get my info from the net from places like the CDC, the Texas DSHS site, and the Nevada covid site. For local "news" on CV, it comes from posts on FB from our local health official and the hospital.

Originally Posted by hanermo

...The US group drug companies plan to charge 2400$ for 2 shots.
The russian treatment already given to 30.000 people is at 10$ each, for 2 shots.
The chinese treatment is currently free and about 10$ after distribution.

Wow, that sounds really bad. How will American get the vaccine?

Oh wait.

Moderna will charge between $32 and $37 a dose for its experimental coronavirus vaccine for some "low volume" customers, the company's CEO said Wednesday

The company will be using a tiered pricing system, and will charge less for higher volume orders. The company considers a small order to be "in the millions" of doses, CEO Stéphane Bancel said on a conference call to discuss the company's quarterly earnings.

...

The price point is considerably higher than the $19.50 per dose price negotiated by Pfizer and German biotech BioNTech, which was criticized by drug pricing advocates as being too high.

Unlike Moderna, which has received nearly $1 billion in government funding for the development of a vaccine, the Pfizer deal is only for the doses and distribution.

The U.S. government will be guaranteed 100 million doses for $1.95 billion only if the vaccine is successful.

Moderna to charge $32 to $37 a dose for its COVID vaccine | TheHill

That is what the feds will pay. Anyone who is uninsured can get it for free, and the rest of us are covered by our policies, so no charge.

No different than how we handle influenza.

Also, Russia did not take the time to do proper clinical trials, so the efficacy and safety of their vaccine is a complete unknown.

Someone here said the average age in Africa is 19. Even with no care you are very unlikely to die if under 25. So it is not surprising that Africa has a low death rate. If you ignore all deaths over age 55 covid is not that lethal.
Bill D

Originally Posted by Bill D

Someone here said the average age in Africa is 19. Even with no care you are very unlikely to die if under 25. So it is not surprising that Africa has a low death rate. If you ignore all deaths over age 55 covid is not that lethal.
Bill D

Wow, that's true. WO says median age 19.7 years.

I didn't know that. How sad.

With all the confusion surrounding the testing and case definitions, the only good way to look at this is excess mortality compared to reported cv deaths. The mortality rates today are a fraction of what they were in April, I think reflecting both a younger cohort, and better therapies.

I am literally over everything. Been all over the country working and haven't even caught a cold. Think i have worn a chin diaper a half a dozen times.

Nothing makes sense, walk through restaurant, need mask, sit down don't need it.
Need it to go watch daughters volleyball game, don't need it because I am eating popcorn.



Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk

Originally Posted by Mr.Green

I am literally over everything. Been all over the country working and haven't even caught a cold. Think i have worn a chin diaper a half a dozen times.

Nothing makes sense, walk through restaurant, need mask, sit down don't need it.
Need it to go watch daughters volleyball game, don't need it because I am eating popcorn.



Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk

Also attending riots doesn't spread the virus either, yet every other gathering of 10 or more is labeled a super spreader event, and people have been jailed for holding parties. No state has been more over the top in so-called preventive measures than the liberal cesspool of California, yet their amount of cases is in line with their population.

Originally Posted by Dualkit

Also attending riots doesn't spread the virus either, yet every other gathering of 10 or more is labeled a super spreader event, and people have been jailed for holding parties.

Nothing more than a power grab by certain states governor's and mayors. Although none of it applied to them.

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Originally Posted by dalmatiangirl61

So you are pulling numbers out of your ass again?

No two countries are reporting the same way, here in the USA we cannot even get 2 states to agree on how the data is collected/reported, I agree this does make things confusing, but in NO WAY justifies some of your claims that its all non-cv cases reported as cv cases, you DO NOT have the facts to substantiate your claims.

Local news, ugh, you might want to look at a map of where I am, there is no "local" news station here. I get my info from the net from places like the CDC, the Texas DSHS site, and the Nevada covid site. For local "news" on CV, it comes from posts on FB from our local health official and the hospital.

Hey doggie girl,

That 2nd "pulling numbers out of your ass" crack deserves the verbal slap I didn't give you the first time. Like all your kind, you are totally incapable of discussing ANYTHING without insulting those who disagree. That tags you as a typical ignorant intolerant libtard. My guess is that like most of your kind you HAVE to believe in the pandemic because it is the only political weapon you have that has achieved any real level of success.

You are, like all your kind, a liar. I never said ALL the reported cases were non-cv reported as cv but rather that MANY of them were. Given the huge overlap between official "covid symptoms" and those of many other respiratory problems it is no great stretch to label them as "presenting similar to Covid-19" because the patient "had difficulty breathing" before dying. Quite a few of those presumed deaths were never given laboratory tests.

I appreciate hanermo’s opinions, we are where we are. I’m thinking 2022, possibly in the spring now… Pretty much like the spanish flu ended up. This last week our county pretty much exploded with cases (some news attached). On the 6th we had 82 cases for the prior week (a record #), on the 7th the courthouse went HOT (more about this later), on the 9th we had 2 care homes hot (more later), last, on the 10th we made the state warning list… SHIT!!!

Now the courthouse is relevant to masking and distancing as when I visited this fall to pay taxes masks were required + marked distancing. In addition the folks working were masked & many had personal clear face shield and those at counters were behind plexi-glass. To add the courthouse went through a 2 year HVAC renovation with the latest & greatest for radon remediation and protection system for things like legionella and viruses… If you’re not safe there you ain’t safe anywhere. (edit to add) it looks like today the courthouse # is 19 to 28, close to 1/2 the people. working there

Seminary Village (our lodge secretary is the admin there) had just received the highest test rating possible by a state inspection covering facility, methods & controls.

Also just had the 5th death on the 11th, which by per cap still makes us look good compared to even smaller neighbor counties nearby.

Last, as a BTW, members here who really give a crap could drop by the [email protected] project here → [email protected] - Wikipedia

I was on a (distro) team for a long time but since things like RNA’s are much like getting Pi to resolve I didn’t sign up after my last PC rebuild. Re-thinking that now, if for no other reason, it might be a good time.

Just don’t know what to think now,
Matt

Originally Posted by Mr.Green

I am literally over everything. Been all over the country working and haven't even caught a cold. Think i have worn a chin diaper a half a dozen times.

Nothing makes sense, walk through restaurant, need mask, sit down don't need it.
Need it to go watch daughters volleyball game, don't need it because I am eating popcorn.



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It makes perfect sense if you consider that masks and "distancing" are mostly theater to keep the "pandemic" in the minds of the masses. Add to the lunacy the number of people seen on TV voicing their belief in and gratitude for all the "protective measures" as their mask, usually cloth, oscillates visibly BELOW their nose as they speak. I personally don't think much of masks but when I do wear one in stores and other businesses it is a surgical mask, not some cloth rag worn for show. I do that for legal reasons so no one can accuse me of being a non-believer "spreader" deliberately using a useless mask. And when I put it on I spread it for proper coverage and pinch the nose bar for a tight seal. Rather ironic that so many of us who don't really believe in them are are many times the only ones wearing them properly.