OT - opening up as best we can. AKA - is it still just the seasonal flu? - Page 452
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  1. #9021
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    Quote Originally Posted by dalmatiangirl61 View Post
    Lets see, I can listen to the doctors and researchers I've known all or most of my life, or I can listen to the russian operatives that I have never met
    I would suggest the lizard people, myself. Skip the middlemen, go straight to the top. Other than being child molesters I hear they are real friendly, doing their best to serve man.

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  3. #9022
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ziggy2 View Post
    There is more to the proper use of the masks then just wearing them.
    Not really ....

    There is a problem in that the masks act as a barrier and that the barrier works as a barrier in both directions. The problem is that even though a very small percentage of the aerosol gets through, the barrier also prevents what has gotten through from getting out. Over time, the amount of undesired aerosols will raise and in this case actually increase the viral load that you are breathing and being exposed to.
    Boilers are continuously introducing new water, which is where the scale coes from. The expelled virus comes from inside the lungs, then if reintroduced goes back into the same lungs it came out of. Unless the virus is reproducing in the mask, no, it can't increase the viral load in a person.

    Besides, the whole "viral load" thing is about when you first get it. After that, you produce as much virus as you could ever want, internally. No diff.

    This is a very similar problem as with dissolved solids in a boiler and the need to do proper blow down.
    Not unless you are continuously pumping virus into your system from the outside. Makeup virus ? Maybe in a hospital setting.

    In the case for the masks,to work and to work well, you need to have a proper seal around the edges and you need to change them frequently.

    The problem I see is that very few of the masks actually fit well ...
    I am not against the use of the masks but I do no think that they are even close to being as effective as what is believed in real world use.
    That's because you are looking at the wrong thing.

    1) they are not primarily to protect the wearer. There is an effect in that direction or there'd be no point at all but that's not the biggest reason for using them

    2) even a crappy effect is worth the effort, the goal is to get the damn R0 down under 1. If you achieve that then the epidemic is over.

    So they do not have to be perfect to achieve the goal, disease eradication. Just cut transmission by a small amount and you beat the thing.

    This page takes a minute or so to do whatever it does but -

    Rt: Effective Reproduction Number

    Get the damn numbers below 1 for two weeks and epidemic is over. THAT is the goal. Perfect protection for the individual wearer is not.

    It does help or you'd not get the R0 down, but of course it's not perfect. If we had a perfect method, we could use it. Even a shitty old carbon steel drill is better than nothing.

    Although full protection is what you achieve when you kill the fucking epidemic.

    Viola, cello and double bass. One rock, two birds.

    If we want to follow the science then perhaps we should actually follow the science.
    We are following the science. That's why we here in Shanghai and Zhejiang and Hubei and all over this country of 1.4 billion people only have to watch for imported cases now. Same with Vietnam, Thailand, the Koreas, Japan, New Zealand, Macao, Hong Kong, Taiwan, and others. Just go check the deaths per million charts to see who is "following the science."

    Hint: you're not in good company.

    You are looking at the wrong science. Look at the science of statistics. This is a public health problem, not an individual health problem.

    Much of the mask wearing is not much more than a false sense of feel good behavior.
    No, you are just looking at the wrong thing.


    edit: new figures coming in. Last quarter's growth in China 4.9%. Quit whining and get your shit together, it's not that difficult. You'd be done in a few weeks if you weren't a bunch of crybabies.

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  5. #9023
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    Quote Originally Posted by CalG View Post
    Who will tell you when it's OK NOT to put the mask on any more?

    somehow, someone is controlling you.... what if they never stop?
    Apologies if this was posted before:
    Republic Broadcasting Network >> He took the words right out of my mouth.

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  7. #9024
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rob F. View Post
    Thanks for posting (reposting?) that Rob.

    I had viewed that man's speech earlier, Straight and articulate. now I have it book marked.

    I ask, What rational man can not see these truths!

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  9. #9025
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    Quote Originally Posted by CalG View Post
    I ask, What rational man can not see these truths!
    Anyone with an IQ over 5.

    And I used to think Gunner was wacked

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    Quote Originally Posted by CalG View Post

    I ask, What rational man can not see these truths!
    I ask: "When was the last time you were rational?"

    Hint: It's some time right around the formation of the first stars...

  11. #9027
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    Quote Originally Posted by Milland View Post
    Hint: It's some time right around the formation of the first stars...
    Beetlejuice .... please do not repeat, it's closer than we thought.



    kinda cool, hunh ?

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    For our European friends, things appear to be trending the wrong way.

    Better follow EG's advice, he's the expert.

    "Quit whining and get your shit together, it's not that difficult. You'd be done in a few weeks if you weren't a bunch of crybabies."

    new-cases-curve.jpg

    deaths-per-capita.jpg

  13. #9029
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    Quote Originally Posted by jancollc View Post
    For our European friends, things appear to be trending the wrong way.

    Better follow EG's advice, he's the expert.

    "Quit whining and get your shit together, it's not that difficult. You'd be done in a few weeks if you weren't a bunch of crybabies."

    new-cases-curve.jpg

    deaths-per-capita.jpg
    Yes, however the Chinese dominated WHo said this :
    WHO guidance: Healthy people should wear masks only when '''taking care of''' coronavirus patients | Fox News

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    Quote Originally Posted by digger doug View Post
    You Trumpskis, always listening to the fake news. A mask is better than a vaccine. That's SCIENCE, the CDC Director does not make things up- he's a SCIENTIST.

    Luckily Joe will save us, he has a plan. It will only take 3 weeks.

    STEPHANOPOULOS: You -- you've been in the Oval Office for eight years with President Obama. He would always say that only the -- only the hard to solve problems ...

    (CROSSTALK)

    ... said what is most likely to happen is the scientist will disagree. The scientist will disagree with the economist. So the question is how are you going to decide this? Who are you going to listen to and how can you contain the pandemic without crushing the economy?

    BIDEN: Well, you can contain the pandemic by being rational and not trust the economy. For example, I laid out a plan how you can open businesses. You can open businesses and schools if in fact you provide them the guidance that they need as well as the money to be able to do it.

    What's happening now is we know, for example, if you can open a business and you could have a sign on the door saying safe to come in, that's why people aren't going anyway when they're open.

    And say because you have social distancing and you have plastic barriers when you go to the cashier you have separators between the booths, you don't have large crowds, you reduce the size of the number of people you can have in the restaurant.

    You make sure there's testing. That's a really critical piece that he didn't do, testing and tracing. And you make sure that people are equipped going to schools. You know we initially said -- the government initially said they're going to provide masks for every student and every teacher.

    And then they said no, no, no, no; FEMA said that -- the president or whomever said no, no that's not a national emergency. Not a national emergency. We need fewer -- we need more teachers in our schools to be able to open, smaller pods.

    We need ventilation systems change. There's a lot of things we know now and I've let -- I laid them out in some detail. Now again, when I say I laid them out, I'm not an office holder. I'm running for office, it's not like I'm still vice president or I was a United States senator pushing this.

    So I don't want to say I, I, I. But we did lay out exactly what needed to be done.

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    So much better to inject yourself with bleach and shove a UV lamp in your keister, eh, jancollc?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Milland View Post
    So much better to inject yourself with bleach and shove a UV lamp in your keister, eh, jancollc?
    Come on. Man! I'm following the Biden Plan!

    I just needed it to be laid out in some detail. The American people have been waiting 10 months for this!

    Now that we know what to do, it will all be over in 3 weeks. Like a miracle! Isn't that great?

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    Positively cringe-inducing speech.

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  19. #9034
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    Quote Originally Posted by jancollc View Post
    For our European friends, things appear to be trending the wrong way.

    Better follow EG's advice, he's the expert.

    "Quit whining and get your shit together, it's not that difficult. You'd be done in a few weeks if you weren't a bunch of crybabies."

    new-cases-curve.jpg

    deaths-per-capita.jpg
    We all know that flattening the curve works. The problem is the area under the curve, which remains the same no matter what and eventually displays the same quantities over time.

    You can't hide from a virus by staying in your house and shutdowns/lockdowns just add additional damage.

    We did everything they asked, believing that we could mostly resume some sense of normality yet the signs are clear we are headed for endless rounds of open up/shut down based on "the numbers". We are NOT all in this together and some are thriving while millions of others suffer all sorts of losses inflicted by "the new normal".

  20. #9035
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    Quote Originally Posted by jancollc View Post
    Come on. Man! I'm following the Biden Plan!

    I just needed it to be laid out in some detail. The American people have been waiting 10 months for this!

    Now that we know what to do, it will all be over in 3 weeks. Like a miracle! Isn't that great?
    What's really great is the slavish devotion to a con-artist who's responsible for a couple hundred thousand American dead.

    And his addled followers just love him! They go to the Corona-sharing rallies with their nice (made in China) MAGAT hats, and give each other high-fives, and then lick their fingers - because ain't no virus gonna take us down!

    Hey, it's fine. You get Covid-19 and they'll take you right to Walter Reed, with your own medical suite and team of doctors to nurse you back to health.

    Well, all but the neural functions, can't fix what was never present...

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    Hurry! Shoot those google streetview cars!

  22. #9037
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    Quote Originally Posted by MattiJ View Post

    Hurry! Shoot those google streetview cars!
    No need - just program the Tesla self-driving cars to crash into them.


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