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    Quote Originally Posted by Straightedge View Post
    What, you got a problem with this exceptionally refined display of black culture? This is afro-rationality. It's like 110% cis-white-male racist thinking that blacks shouldn't be allowed to riot and burn businesses to the ground. Becuz white privilege.
    After San Fran earthquake 1906? Orders were given to soldiers to shoot to kill any looters. Seems it was a good deterrent.

    We really have become a divided society to think there's people, mayors even that think someone burning a police station to the ground shouldn't be shot dead.

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    Here's an update to my post about Antifa involvement in Minneapolis riots.

    Peaceful Black Protesters Shut Down Antifa After They Tried to Get Violent In Minnesota

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    Quote Originally Posted by Scottl View Post

    PS: I look forward to hearing that cop try to explain why kneeling on someone's neck for a prolonged period could be expected NOT to end badly. Thanks to his actions a part of his city is being destroyed.
    What he did was clearly wrong and he should be arrested and tried for murder. However, 0% of the blame falls on his shoulders for the looting and the fires. As much as people like the play the blame game, at the end of the day they are responsible for their own actions.

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    Quote Originally Posted by tim9lives View Post
    ... Your logic....Dallas having a low rate while New York has 1/2 the National death rate....That would be akin to China telling the world....Beijing has a low rate of infected so forget about concern over Wuhan China.

    You really should donate your brain to science upon your passing because the logic is fascinating. Really is.
    I wasn't the one making the comparisons. It was the author in your piece that did that.

    Other than the Trump impersonator Jair Bolsonaro in Brazil, who is now looking to the US as the exemplar of anything other than what not to do? How many people in Düsseldorf or Dublin are wishing they lived in Detroit or Dallas?

    Thus, even at the very end of March, 15 Republican governors had failed to order people to stay at home or to close non-essential businesses. In Alabama, for example, it was not until April 3rd that governor Kay Ivey finally issued a stay-at-home order.

    In Florida, the state with the highest concentration of elderly people with underlying conditions, governor Ron DeSantis, a Trump mini-me, kept the beach resorts open to students travelling from all over the US for spring break parties. Even on April 1st, when he issued restrictions, DeSantis exempted religious services and “recreational activities”.

    Georgia governor Brian Kemp, when he finally issued a stay-at-home order on April 1st, explained: “We didn’t know that [the virus can be spread by people without symptoms] until the last 24 hours.”

    This is not mere ignorance – it is deliberate and homicidal stupidity.
    He singles out these (exclusively republican) Governors, apparently without even looking to see what the policy effect has been in those States.

    They are doing much better at fighting COVID than Ireland, so who's the ignorant one? In fact, the only other place me mentions- Detroit, actually has worse numbers than Dublin- and that is a city run by a democrat mayor, in a state run by a democrat governor.

    More broadly, Europe accounts for 33% of all cases, and 47% of all deaths. The US accounts for 29% of all cases and 28% of all deaths.

    People in glass houses...

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    Quote Originally Posted by AJ H View Post
    What he did was clearly wrong and he should be arrested and tried for murder. However, 0% of the blame falls on his shoulders for the looting and the fires. As much as people like the play the blame game, at the end of the day they are responsible for their own actions.
    That may be true. But when that cop left his knee on another human being until he snuffed life out of a non violent offense... he clearly didn’t give a shit about his Blue Brothers either. Every cop dealing with these riots now has their life at unnecessary risk.

    This could have been avoided. The arresting cop is obviously a selfish sociopath in my opinion

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    Quote Originally Posted by Scottl View Post
    PS: I look forward to hearing that cop try to explain why kneeling on someone's neck for a prolonged period could be expected NOT to end badly. Thanks to his actions a part of his city is being destroyed.
    And I for one look forward to him eventually getting quietly shuffled into my areas law enforcement pool as too often tends to happen.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jancollc View Post
    I wasn't the one making the comparisons. It was the author in your piece that did that.

    He singles out these (exclusively republican) Governors, apparently without even looking to see what the policy effect has been in those States.

    They are doing much better at fighting COVID than Ireland, so who's the ignorant one?

    More broadly, Europe accounts for 33% of all cases, and 47% of all deaths. The US accounts for 29% of all cases and 28% of all deaths.

    People in glass houses...
    Not sure where you get your data sets from. Kaiser Health has a different opinion. In fact, per Our World in Data’s estimates, the United States’ rate of COVID deaths per capita isn’t just worse than what we see in countries like Canada and South Korea. It’s also worse than the global average. As of May 12, 36.66 per million people had died of COVID for the entire world — in the United States, it was 243.76 deaths per million people.

    Trump’s Comparison Of COVID-19 Death Rates In Germany, US Is Wrong | Kaiser Health News

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    [QUOTE=tim9lives;3558033]That may be true. But when that cop left his knee on another human being until he snuffed life out of a non violent offense... he clearly didn’t give a shit about his Blue Brothers either. Every cop dealing with these riots now has their life at unnecessary risk.

    This could have been avoided. The arresting cop is obviously a selfish sociopath in my opinion[/Q

    I agree, he's a POS and there's reason for outrage. But a traumatic event is no reason to torch NAPA. All across the country this keeps getting used as an excuse for more violence. There's a lot of people out there that just want an excuse to run around and wreck shit and this is a prime example of it. You're angry? Understood. You want to protest? no problem. But you're right to live ends the moment you think you're going to burn down municipality buildings.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jim rozen View Post
    OMG then don't get vaccinated. Say for shingles. Because you HAD chicken pox and it was just 'no big deal'
    right, Scotto?

    Whatever ya do, scotto, don' look up shingles. Or,opthalmic aka ocular shingles. Same virus. No big deal eh.

    Shingles on Forehead and in the Eye

    Same virus is in you right now.
    Maybe this guy should have seen a doctor once the rash broke out.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Scottl View Post
    Here's an update to my post about Antifa involvement in Minneapolis riots.

    Peaceful Black Protesters Shut Down Antifa After They Tried to Get Violent In Minnesota
    Antifa movement members are a bunch of useless assholes in my opinion. We had a ton of them flock to New Orleans after Katrina. They basically moved into peoples houses which were vacant because owners of houses were evacuated. They squatted and fought it in court when owners returned and tried to evict them. They are parasites who promote anarchy for Gods Sake.

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    [QUOTE=AJ H;3558051]
    Quote Originally Posted by tim9lives View Post
    That may be true. But when that cop left his knee on another human being until he snuffed life out of a non violent offense... he clearly didn’t give a shit about his Blue Brothers either. Every cop dealing with these riots now has their life at unnecessary risk.

    This could have been avoided. The arresting cop is obviously a selfish sociopath in my opinion[/Q

    I agree, he's a POS and there's reason for outrage. But a traumatic event is no reason to torch NAPA. All across the country this keeps getting used as an excuse for more violence. There's a lot of people out there that just want an excuse to run around and wreck shit and this is a prime example of it. You're angry? Understood. You want to protest? no problem. But you're right to live ends the moment you think you're going to burn down municipality buildings.
    The looters and violence is directly a result of Antifa. These guys are bad news. They are educated anarchist. Dangerous bastards for sure. They want anarchy. Not good. They could care less about Minnesota

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    Quote Originally Posted by tim9lives View Post
    Not sure where you get your data sets from.
    Here ya go, do your own calculations.

    Coronavirus Update (Live): 5,963,952 Cases and 364,007 Deaths from COVID-19 Virus Pandemic - Worldometer

    The US is currently ranked 12th in deaths per capita.

    Lower than:

    Belgium
    Spain
    UK
    Italy
    France
    Sweden
    Netherlands
    Ireland

    ...

    And those States the author singled out are well below the US average in mortality, and well below Europe.

    He's just another typical hack, trying to make the pandemic a political issue. Got no use for this POS.

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    If you like government statistics, you'll love this:
    Criminal Victimization statistical tables

    Check out Table 42 on page 55 of the pdf. Remember blacks make up 13% of the us population, so at least in crime, they are huge overachievers.

    Take rape for example. If you run the math from these tables provided by the US DOJ

    Rapes of whites by blacks: 19,293
    Rapes of blacks by whites: 0

    But at least diversity is our strength, so we got that goin for us.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Straightedge View Post
    If you like government statistics, you'll love this:
    Criminal Victimization statistical tables

    Check out Table 42 on page 55 of the pdf. Remember blacks make up 13% of the us population, so at least in crime, they are huge overachievers.

    Take rape for example. If you run the math from these tables provided by the US DOJ

    Rapes of whites by blacks: 19,293
    Rapes of blacks by whites: 0

    But at least diversity is our strength, so we got that goin for us.


    Well, that's one way of looking at it.

    Another is to go to the top of that table and find (as a white person) that there's about a 15.4% chance in any violent crime that the perpetrator is black. Not far off their 13% of the population. And given that most people, most crime - and most criminals - are in urban areas maybe closer. Rural violent crime is maybe mostly poor white trash, meth dealers, etc.. Too many of them per capita. Urban violent crime is maybe mostly poor black trash, heroin dealers etc. As you say, too many of them per capita.

    Kind of amazing, though, that Thomas Jefferson appears to be the nation's only white person known to have had sex with a black; presumably without her agreeing to be one of the 600,000 slaves -- and tens of millions of descendents -- brought to America. It gets complicated, doesn't it? This "diversity" thing you ironically celebrate is made of our own past violence.

    My wife, who follows such things, thinks that much of today's problem is our own slave-days heritage of breaking up families (slave owners separating the fathers from mothers). The pattern of black fathers absent from black families persists today -- and not so much in other black cultures. Could very well be we share some of the blame. Someone like Obama was suppossed to help heal that -- but we all know what happened to him (politically "lynched" by Mitch McConnell).

    Bad news, I suppose, is that insecure attachment now cuts across most every racial, ethnic, and class divide today in the US. Not just black families. Far too many kids are being borne to single parents, either unable, unwilling, or incompetent to care for them. These are the kids that go on to fail, be a drag on our society.

    There's no excuse for violent crime, except in cases of true self-defense. I mostly like Jefferson -- he was probably one of the "decent" slave owners of his time in addition to many other admirable qualities and acts. Still, no excuse. Also no excuse for those rapes, or current violence from cops or protesters either.

    Interesting recent article on the Kent State massacre recently. Fifty years ago, this May. We're getting echoes of that today. Tit for tat violence from the right, the left, the right , the left . . .One would think we'd learn?

    Speaking of the bottom feeders in various races specializing in crime -- wonder how many black financiers have managed to suck billions to trlllions out of the economy, trash real businesses along the way, get bailed out, then do it again?

    Just tallying up my own losses -- as far as home burglaries go -- it's been twice. Once by some black kids while living in the cheap rent area in college. Once by a white kid, while living more comfortably. Total loss maybe $100 the first time, $10,000 or so the second. Meanwhile, banksters of various stripes seem to have made off with hundreds of thousands.

    Justice? The black kids (all under 18) got caught. The white kid (a druggy nicknamed "Dragon") was known to police, but not brought to justice. The banksters got bonuses, paid by the citizens they robbed.

    Maybe we can work on all our problems? And without blaming all blacks, all whites, all cops, all of the 1%, all protestors, all Mexicans, all Muslims, all liberals, all conservatives (etc.) while clearly dissauding and/or punishing those actually responsible.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Scottl View Post
    And I agree that the better places are not the site of these outbreaks because they tend to have private rooms rather than shared or even dormitories. We already know that the highest tolls have been among people in high density living situations.
    Even where there are private rooms, elder care facilities are risky unless there is a total lockdown of the residents in those rooms, and anyone going in or
    out takes strict precautions. And yes this does happen that way. These poor folks are basically in solitary confinement prison.

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    Quote Originally Posted by AJ H View Post
    ... shoot to kill any looters. Seems it was a good deterrent.
    ....
    Mr. trump agrees with you 100 percent.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jancollc View Post
    Here ya go, do your own calculations.

    Coronavirus Update (Live): 5,963,952 Cases and 364,007 Deaths from COVID-19 Virus Pandemic - Worldometer

    The US is currently ranked 12th in deaths per capita.

    Lower than:

    Belgium
    Spain
    UK
    Italy
    France
    Sweden
    Netherlands
    Ireland

    ...

    And those States the author singled out are well below the US average in mortality, and well below Europe.

    He's just another typical hack, trying to make the pandemic a political issue. Got no use for this POS.

    A probable explanation for those rankings is that all of those countries (except Sweden, which basically didn't do any lockdown/stay at home) have between 2 and 12 times the population density of the US. That makes a significant differenceto the likelyhood of coming into contact with infected people.

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    Quote Originally Posted by PeteM View Post

    Just tallying up my own losses -- as far as home burglaries go -- it's been twice. Once by some black kids while living in the cheap rent area in college. Once by a white kid, while living more comfortably. Total loss maybe $100 the first time, $10,000 or so the second. Meanwhile, banksters of various stripes seem to have made off with hundreds of thousands.

    Justice? The black kids (all under 18) got caught. The white kid (a druggy nicknamed "Dragon") was known to police, but not brought to justice. The banksters got bonuses, paid by the citizens they robbed.

    Maybe we can work on all our problems? And without blaming all blacks, all whites, all cops, all of the 1%, all protestors, all Mexicans, all Muslims, all liberals, all conservatives (etc.) while clearly dissauding and/or punishing those actually responsible.
    I don't take these gov't statistics any more seriously than the covid stats. Which is to say, not at all. But they're out there, and you'll notice that the news is very selective about which statistics they amplify and which they squelch.

    That said, while at Stanford, I lived one year in EPA. Gunfire heard multiple nights every week, crazy drugged out blacks coming on the property all hours, pit bulls packing up and running around the streets, it was a seriously fucked up place. Nothing ever changed my views on race more than living in a 90% black neighborhood. It was straight-up dangerous. A guy doesn't need statisticians to tell him what his own eyes can plainly observe.

    Most people can't even see because the media has brainwashed them into not seeing. That, and because of fear: certain truths, no matter how obvious, can no longer be spoken. And that goes way beyond race.

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    Quote Originally Posted by tim9lives View Post
    FINTAN O’TOOLE. Donald Trump has destroyed the country he promised to make great again

    (Irish Times 25.4.2020)

    By FINTAN O'TOOLE | On 29 April 2020

    Usually, when this kind of outlandish idiocy is displaying itself, there is the comforting thought that, if things were really serious, it would all stop. People would sober up. Instead, a large part of the US has hit the bottle even harder.

    US President Donald Trump has claimed he was being sarcastic and testing the media when he raised the idea that injecting disinfectant or irradiating the body with ultraviolet light might kill coronavirus.

    Over more than two centuries, the United States has stirred a very wide range of feelings in the rest of the world: love and hatred, fear and hope, envy and contempt, awe and anger. But there is one emotion that has never been directed towards the US until now: pity.

    However bad things are for most other rich democracies, it is hard not to feel sorry for Americans. Most of them did not vote for Donald Trump in 2016. Yet they are locked down with a malignant narcissist who, instead of protecting his people from Covid-19, has amplified its lethality. The country Trump promised to make great again has never in its history seemed so pitiful.

    Will American prestige ever recover from this shameful episode? The US went into the coronavirus crisis with immense advantages: precious weeks of warning about what was coming, the world’s best concentration of medical and scientific expertise, effectively limitless financial resources, a military complex with stunning logistical capacity and most of the world’s leading technology corporations. Yet it managed to make itself the global epicentre of the pandemic.

    As the American writer George Packer puts it in the current edition of the Atlantic, “The United States reacted … like Pakistan or Belarus – like a country with shoddy infrastructure and a dysfunctional government whose leaders were too corrupt or stupid to head off mass suffering.”

    It is one thing to be powerless in the face of a natural disaster, quite another to watch vast power being squandered in real time – wilfully, malevolently, vindictively. It is one thing for governments to fail (as, in one degree or another, most governments did), quite another to watch a ruler and his supporters actively spread a deadly virus. Trump, his party and Rupert Murdoch’s Fox News became vectors of the pestilence.

    The grotesque spectacle of the president openly inciting people (some of them armed) to take to the streets to oppose the restrictions that save lives is the manifestation of a political death wish. What are supposed to be daily briefings on the crisis, demonstrative of national unity in the face of a shared challenge, have been used by Trump merely to sow confusion and division. They provide a recurring horror show in which all the neuroses that haunt the American subconscious dance naked on live TV.

    If the plague is a test, its ruling political nexus ensured that the US would fail it at a terrible cost in human lives. In the process, the idea of the US as the world’s leading nation – an idea that has shaped the past century – has all but evaporated.

    Other than the Trump impersonator Jair Bolsonaro in Brazil, who is now looking to the US as the exemplar of anything other than what not to do? How many people in Düsseldorf or Dublin are wishing they lived in Detroit or Dallas?

    It is hard to remember now but, even in 2017, when Trump took office, the conventional wisdom in the US was that the Republican Party and the broader framework of US political institutions would prevent him from doing too much damage. This was always a delusion, but the pandemic has exposed it in the most savage ways.

    What used to be called mainstream conservatism has not absorbed Trump – he has absorbed it. Almost the entire right-wing half of American politics has surrendered abjectly to him. It has sacrificed on the altar of wanton stupidity the most basic ideas of responsibility, care and even safety.

    Thus, even at the very end of March, 15 Republican governors had failed to order people to stay at home or to close non-essential businesses. In Alabama, for example, it was not until April 3rd that governor Kay Ivey finally issued a stay-at-home order.

    In Florida, the state with the highest concentration of elderly people with underlying conditions, governor Ron DeSantis, a Trump mini-me, kept the beach resorts open to students travelling from all over the US for spring break parties. Even on April 1st, when he issued restrictions, DeSantis exempted religious services and “recreational activities”.

    There is, as the demonstrations in US cities show, plenty of political mileage in denying the reality of the pandemic.

    Georgia governor Brian Kemp, when he finally issued a stay-at-home order on April 1st, explained: “We didn’t know that [the virus can be spread by people without symptoms] until the last 24 hours.”

    This is not mere ignorance – it is deliberate and homicidal stupidity. There is, as the demonstrations this week in US cities have shown, plenty of political mileage in denying the reality of the pandemic. It is fuelled by Fox News and far-right internet sites, and it reaps for these politicians millions of dollars in donations, mostly (in an ugly irony) from older people who are most vulnerable to the coronavirus.

    It draws on a concoction of conspiracy theories, hatred of science, paranoia about the “deep state” and religious providentialism (God will protect the good folks) that is now very deeply infused in the mindset of the American right.

    Trump embodies and enacts this mindset, but he did not invent it. The US response to the coronavirus crisis has been paralysed by a contradiction that the Republicans have inserted into the heart of US democracy. On the one hand, they want to control all the levers of governmental power. On the other they have created a popular base by playing on the notion that government is innately evil and must not be trusted.

    The contradiction was made manifest in two of Trump’s statements on the pandemic: on the one hand that he has “total authority”, and on the other that “I don’t take responsibility at all”. Caught between authoritarian and anarchic impulses, he is incapable of coherence.

    But this is not just Donald Trump. The crisis has shown definitively that Trump’s presidency is not an aberration. It has grown on soil long prepared to receive it. The monstrous blossoming of misrule has structure and purpose and strategy behind it.

    There are very powerful interests who demand “freedom” in order to do as they like with the environment, society and the economy. They have infused a very large part of American culture with the belief that “freedom” is literally more important than life. My freedom to own assault weapons trumps your right not to get shot at school. Now, my freedom to go to the barber (“I Need a Haircut” read one banner this week in St Paul, Minnesota) trumps your need to avoid infection.

    Usually, when this kind of outlandish idiocy is displaying itself, there is the comforting thought that, if things were really serious, it would all stop. People would sober up. Instead, a large part of the US has hit the bottle even harder.

    And the president, his party and their media allies keep supplying the drinks. There has been no moment of truth, no shock of realisation that the antics have to end. No one of any substance on the US right has stepped in to say: get a grip, people are dying here.

    If he is re-elected, toxicity will have become the lifeblood of American politics That is the mark of how deep the trouble is for the US – it is not just that Trump has treated the crisis merely as a way to feed tribal hatreds but that this behaviour has become normalised. When the freak show is live on TV every evening, and the star is boasting about his ratings, it is not really a freak show any more. For a very large and solid bloc of Americans, it is reality.

    And this will get worse before it gets better. Trump has at least eight more months in power. In his inaugural address in 2017, he evoked “American carnage” and promised to make it stop. But now that the real carnage has arrived, he is revelling in it. He is in his element.

    As things get worse, he will pump more hatred and falsehood, more death-wish defiance of reason and decency, into the groundwater. If a new administration succeeds him in 2021, it will have to clean up the toxic dump he leaves behind. If he is re-elected, toxicity will have become the lifeblood of American politics. Either way, it will be a long time before the rest of the world can imagine America being great again.

    Fintan O’Toole is an Irish columnist, literary editor, and drama critic for The Irish Times, for which he has written since 1988.
    Ok. I understand. The US is a leader and light to the world. Best to not apologize for everything under the sun. Look at the alternatives, look to China and tyrannical governments and ask yourself who do you trust. If not our own country then who ? Australia ? China, Russia, France, or any western country? Only the US can follow through and best with the help of our allies.

    This is the thing the US is under attack by Anti Americanism which enemies use to divide us. Their goal is to enslave the world.

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    The way things are going in the US, ……..an outside observer could be forgiven for thinking that (shall we call them) ''certain political factions'' won't be happy until they have every citizen literally fighting another to the death.

    I believe it's called ''divide and rule''

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