OT - opening up as best we can. AKA - is it still just the seasonal flu? - Page 62
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  1. #1221
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scottl View Post
    So, while I can see the value when there is some kind of medical professional (at least a nurse or EMT) attending the person, in other cases where only the elderly person is present how do they ....

    Check blood pressure
    Draw blood and do analysis
    Perform electrocardiograms
    perform an eye exam including an ocular pressure check and retinal exam
    Give injections
    perform an ultrasound
    Remove corns and callouses from feet
    Perform dental work

    While I can understand the value for preliminary screening the inability to perform necessary "hands-on" work puts the elderly at risk.

    Your last sentence sums up my feelings exactly. They are not interchangeable. In one case that I am dealing with a person with a serious blood disorder that requires careful monitoring of blood chemistry had their appointment already delayed two months when they bumped it several more months.
    they must really not like you
    my 80 something mother has no problem getting the essential stuff done,
    blood work and what not just done by appointment.
    wife got her annual infusion,
    now the colonoscopy and mammogram have been postponed

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    Quote Originally Posted by Camputer View Post
    This stuff isn't gone. It's not some completely dead relic of a time past. I was born in 1994 and my story is almost the exact same as yours. The only difference is I still play video games. They got much better after pong.
    Pong was the first one available for home use, arcades had much better games in console form. My issues with video game players is the ones who make it too big a part of their lives. In my day they were just something to play waiting for a pizza. I have known quite a few young men where it stunted their growth into being a responsible adult. There are quite a few 25 year old virgins living with mom whose social life is online gaming.

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  4. #1223
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    Quote Originally Posted by Camputer View Post
    This stuff isn't gone. It's not some completely dead relic of a time past. I was born in 1994 and my story is almost the exact same as yours. The only difference is I still play video games. They got much better after pong.
    It is not a complete relic of the past, but the young man who leaves home at 18 diminishes by the decade, that is a fact.

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    Quote Originally Posted by CarbideBob View Post
    How do we put it back together before this as in 3 to 5 months in the so way forgotten past?
    Bob
    umm you don't
    it took a while for a new normal to come about after 1918
    things changed after 911
    the 2008 crash
    so it will be with the 2020 pandemic.
    some sectors will be fine, some will be stronger and some will get hammered.
    life is good in the grocery store biz atm, but sucks for most of the brick and mortar retail.

  6. #1225
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dualkit View Post
    Pong was the first one available for home use, arcades had much better games in console form. My issues with video game players is the ones who make it too big a part of their lives. In my day they were just something to play waiting for a pizza. I have known quite a few young men where it stunted their growth into being a responsible adult. There are quite a few 25 year old virgins living with mom whose social life is online gaming.

    yup and these are the same group who go out and shoot up a school
    because they aren't getting any

  7. #1226
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dualkit View Post
    There are quite a few 25 year old virgins living with mom whose social life is online gaming.
    There's also a lot of 25 year old virgins whose social life is gaming that are making 120k+ salaries working in the sector. You seem to be confusing things like not playing video games and banging chicks with talent and hard work. They have nothing to do with eachother. There are avenues avaiable now that weren't available when you were that age and people have a lot more freedom to be different now, but there were bums then and there are bums now. Your generation was not some gilded gift to the earth.


    I know this won't go over well here, but there is way too much back-in-my-day, whippershnapper, chest beating on all these OT threads.

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  9. #1227
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChipSplitter View Post
    Um, okaaaaayyyyy................................


    1) Started a thread about opening up.
    2) Put another sentence in the title to start a fight . . .
    Actually, I assumed (wrongly) that the "fight" was over when we reached 80,000 deaths - the supposed recent high point in seasonal flu deaths and when one prominent member said would be a line when he'd start taking it seriously. Thought most of us had turned a corner in our thinking. That second sentence was to mark what I thought would be a turning point in the thinking of most of us.

    Seems not. It's apparently still the flu and a media hoax for many.

    Meanwhile we've seen:

    -The seasonal flu probably did actually kill anywhere near those 80,000 numbers. Rather it was a number CDC made up by including pneumonia deaths and multiplying by around six.

    - SARS-2 deaths are now approaching 110,000

    Not clear to me if we're going to have the sharp downward trend seen in other countries. Far as I can tell it looks like fairly high numbers as we go forward, with many opening up without much in the way of precautions. Possibly even turn upwards a bit among those cheek to jowl. And (link above) there's lots we still don't know about how to best contain and treat this.

    You still among those who think it's just the seasonal flu?

    Far as I can tell it's both serious and something we need to sensibly work around as we open up the economy.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Camputer View Post
    There's also a lot of 25 year old virgins whose social life is gaming that are making 120k+ salaries working in the sector. . .
    FWIW, this old timer can remember -- about 30 years ago -- when the computer gaming industry surpassed the entire computer design industry (CAD,CAM,CAE) in size. These days, for better or worse, it's about 12x the size.

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    Quote Originally Posted by PeteM View Post
    Means of "production" are paid for by all the citizens, decided by their vote. The benefits are typically redistributive. We all pay for cops, firemen, teachers, public infrastructure, armed services. Those actually needing them are the beneficiaries. The beneficiaries are everyone, in those examples.

    <snip>

    As far as your "inventing new definitions" being a commie socialist sneaky type in your mind - my 1971 Webster's Third International Unabridged dictionary is right at hand. First definition for socialism, some 50 plus years ago: " . socal and political movements advocating or aiming at collective (e.g. jointly funded) or government ownership and administration of the means of production and control of the distribution of goods (and services)." You know, schools, roads, firehouses, police cars, aircraft carriers . . .
    The first is nonsense, taxes are not "the means of production". They are just taxes. The beneficiaries are everyone, in those examples.

    The second is exactly why your examples are not socialism. You conveniently leave out the first half of the equation. Government ownership and control of land, labor and capital.

    Which the Government then redistributes as it sees fit, the second half of the equation.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jancollc View Post
    The first is nonsense, taxes are not "the means of production". They are just taxes. The beneficiaries are everyone, in those examples.

    The second is exactly why your examples are not socialism. You conveniently leave out the first half of the equation. Government ownership and control of land, labor and capital.

    . . .
    Taxes provide local, state, and national governmentsthe ability to buy and run stuff. You think maybe the most socialized countries in the world (say, Denmark) aren't socialist because it's just "taxes" they use to buy and run things like national healthcare? Or that stuff like, say, breast cancer exams or military interventions on behalf of oil interests benefit everyone equally ?

    Back in the US, who is it that you think owns this stuff (police stations, post offices, parks, firehouses, roads, schools, Interstate Highways, tanks, aircraft carriers, etc.) and the land they're on if not local, state, and Federal governments?

    And who do you think pays the salaries (aka "labor") of police, firemen, teachers, postal workers, park rangers, Army, Navy, Air Force, Coast Guard, Veteran's Administration etc.) if not various levels of government?

    Far as I know there is no first world country -- maybe none at all -- that isn't some mix of public and private ownership and control.

    Sorry if "socialist" is of declining value to you as the second most horrible epithet right after (depending on far left or right view) "communist" or "capitalist." It's just another way of defending ourselves, having packages delivered, teaching our kids, paying for roads, and so on. Sometimes better. Sometimes worse.

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    Denmark is not a socialist country.

    The post offices, police stations, F-16's etc are owned by the taxpayer, who also pays the salaries of the people that are tasked with carrying out the duties assigned by the elected representatives.

    The extent of "socialiam" we have is the amount that has been legislated. Medicaid, Medicare, SS, EITC's, etc.

    My personal view is that government's are not very efficient at most things, and the answer to poor government is not more government. I think the closer the government is to the individual, the better. I have a better chance of influencing a local politician than I have of influencing a Senator.

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    Quote Originally Posted by PeteM View Post
    Far as I know there is no first world country -- maybe none at all -- that isn't some mix of public and private ownership and control.
    I never claimed there was.

    I said that citing police and fire protection or highways or other public infrastructure as examples of socialism is false. There are many socialist programs in the US, those examples just aren't the ones.

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    Interesting about not leaving home.....In my younger day ,the only reason you wouldnt leave home is if you loved picking beans ,tomatoes and taters for nothing...on the promise of if you stayed around for another 50 years the farm would be yours.....always assuming the old man didnt turn nasty as so many did ,and leave it all to a ho.......Dunno how many farms were sold when the free labour up and left soon as they got a truck licence at 18.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jancollc View Post
    I never claimed there was.

    I said that citing police and fire protection or highways or other public infrastructure as examples of socialism is false. There are many socialist programs in the US, those examples just aren't the ones.
    Maybe you should write a column for Forbes (which once called itself "The Capitalist Tool"):

    We're All Infrastructure Socialists

    So, would an Army barracks, highway, public school, or fire station be "socialist" in an avowed socialist /democrat country like Denmark but magically become "capitalist" if located (on government-owned land and subsidized - just like the Danes - with tax dollars) in one of our fifty states?

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    in my mind there is a difference in "socialism" and "socialist programs"
    maybe a fine line...idk.

    suffice to say i see great value in programs that benefit the country as a whole.
    id like for ppl to have basic healthcare....if for no other reason just cause id rather not catch whatever someone is carrying around and not getting approriate treatment for...or my kids.
    id feel better knowing kids arent going hungry unecessarily.
    id rather not ppl have to rely on charity when theyre down..screw charity.

    id like that damn pothole fixed, and id like it fixed by ppl that have a vested interest in fixing it.....people that live here...id like them to be paid well enough to not need the social net.
    same for teachers,firefighters,police, et,al.

    i kno...its pie in the sky idealistic of me....

    but wait.....where did that 3 TRILLION go??

    how much has been spent on "war" over the last 30 or so years??

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    Im thinking in the next 15 years some of you US taxpayers are gonna find out about "living wage for everyone" ,free education to keep under 30s off the unemployment stats,free childcare ,free health ,and taxes starting at 50% to pay for it all.....Theres lots of angry ,unemployed /under employed young people with enough education to know to vote ,and all the old conservative voters dropping off the twig,including 100k+ courtesy of the virus........Whats that I hear ....politicians wouldnt be such rank opportunists to take advantage of that?

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    Well, This season's Seasonal flu is now a bust. Good thing too. I'm sick and tired of all the play acting.

    Recent evidence indicates that all the "excess Mortality" around the world is about equal to the excess mortality in the aged and care homes.

    It was DUMB to send people ill with a terrible flu into a population that was defensless.

    Well intended to "flatten the curve" and "save the NHS" etc. But DUMB! DUMB! DUMB!.

    The only thing dumber is if we keep killing our young people socially and economically. Already I'm worried that our pre schoolers are going to grow up SERIOUSLY damage socially. "NO! NO! NO! You can't play with your friends, Keep two meters away from EVERYONE!, YOU might give them "the disease".

    Sick! Sick! Sick.

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    Quote Originally Posted by john.k View Post
    Im thinking in the next 15 years some of you US taxpayers are gonna find out about "living wage for everyone" ,free education to keep under 30s off the unemployment stats,free childcare ,free health ,and taxes starting at 50% to pay for it all.....Theres lots of angry ,unemployed /under employed young people with enough education to know to vote ,and all the old conservative voters dropping off the twig,including 100k+ courtesy of the virus........Whats that I hear ....politicians wouldnt be such rank opportunists to take advantage of that?
    Horsehit. My taxes, all-up total, US + UK, had hit over 65%, as-of 1994. I simply retired. Age 49. No NEED of any "John Galt" drama. Just stop. Go enjoy life. What was the point of working, if mostly to pay taxes, when humans don't actually NEED much to live simply so they can simply live?

    Doesn't MATTER what the damned-fool looter-lie-bore-alls VOTE!
    There's no f*****g MONEY to FUND it!

    From:

    National Debt – Just Facts

    Extract:

    * The U.S. Treasury's official figure for the debt of the federal government on May 27, 2020 is $25.6 trillion—or more precisely—$25,583,137,364,237. [6] This amounts to: $77,621 for every person living in the U.S.[7] $198,968 for every household in the U.S.[8]

    And the committments on that debt have already gone up... and are still climbing.
    Wife and I can easily afford OUR share. More than once.

    But we'd get TF OUT of the USA after paying it, ever it came due in one chunk.
    If not before. As we partially HAVE DONE. 1994 onward.

    So the parasite-class f*****ts can vote themselves all the "free everything" they wish to do. It won't matter.

    Not only is there NFW they can ever COLLECT?

    No sooner than they legislate such insanity, the productive side of the economy entire would bail-out...

    ... and they'd have less than half what they've stolen, as "entitlements", already!

    Nothing to do with left, right, or center wing nuts. Greedy instant-gratification IDIOTS figuring "OPM" is a bottomless well, rather!

    It is not. The "Other People" smart and hard-working enough to have generated that money want to feed THEIR OWN family. Not the looter-lie-bore-all parasites!

    DELIGHTED the parasites starve! Sooner, the better. They don't contribute a damned thing but greed and noise.

    "Grocery Store Arithmetic".

    Cannot eat anything off empty shelves but a film of dust and dirt.

    That simple.

    I did say "grocery store arithmetic"?

    Darwin's ghost laughs at those ephemeral "Sandalista" socialist looter-lie-bore-all fools .. and you get Lebanon, Syria, Teheran, Havana.. or Venezuela ...writ large. Too-soon, New York shiddy? Kalifornickyah, SSR? Ill-annoyance?

    Wanna bet their fat State and Local "public service" (who SAID so?) Pension checks will be any good, five years out? Bankruptcy walking, already, those are, and driving-out the productive wealth-generators at an already accelerating rate.

    Or maybe not?

    Four more years, we sure better hope we have another very much like DJT ready to carry-on the rebuilding and de-worming.

    Body politic is sick with a parasite load, struggling like Hell to rid itself of the affliction?

    Last damned thing yah wants to do is volunteer to vote-in more parasites!

    Even already eighty-percent DEAD ones! "Wide world" would eat that sad fool's lunch before he had even finished takin' in his morning bullshit IV or Nutsy Pelosi had gotten her designer ice-cream Botox-lip and tongue rations.

    Wotta nut house! "Pinwheel Truman" or or "Turbine Tip O'Neil" gots to be spinning in their graves like to crack Mach five, tip-speed!


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  27. #1239
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    Quote Originally Posted by Camputer View Post
    There's also a lot of 25 year old virgins whose social life is gaming that are making 120k+ salaries working in the sector. You seem to be confusing things like not playing video games and banging chicks with talent and hard work. They have nothing to do with eachother. There are avenues avaiable now that weren't available when you were that age and people have a lot more freedom to be different now, but there were bums then and there are bums now. Your generation was not some gilded gift to the earth.


    I know this won't go over well here, but there is way too much back-in-my-day, whippershnapper, chest beating on all these OT threads.
    I haven't personally known anyone who made a plugged nickel from playing video games, but plenty of kids who were lucky to graduate High School or accomplish anything due to excessive video game play. All of them could be compared to a 14 year old of my generation in their development, yet they were now considered adults. I am comparing the average person to the average person in different places and times.

    The average kid in my place in time came from parents whose life was a hell of a lot rougher than ours. I had chores, but was always told, food, clothes and shelter are free, anything above that needs to be earned. My dad did not even get food for free. The neighborhood he grew up in had 5 acre parcels where people raised a lot of their own food and bartered food items with neighbors. It was in So Cal where there are long growing seasons. He spent many hours playing farm hand. Also unlike what I experienced in my dad's place in time girls didn't have it much easier than boys. His older sister had to help with canning and baking. She was earning her food also.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dualkit View Post
    Pong was the first one available for home use, arcades had much better games in console form. My issues with video game players is the ones who make it too big a part of their lives. In my day they were just something to play waiting for a pizza. I have known quite a few young men where it stunted their growth into being a responsible adult. There are quite a few 25 year old virgins living with mom whose social life is online gaming.
    That really applies to most things... Guns, boating, riding, etc.

    For the record I have played video games since I was maybe 10 or so (46 now), and I also played D&D for a good chunk of my younger life, well into my thirties. My first game "system" was a C64, even got 2 disk drives and learned to cheat LoL. (maybe it was a 8 bit nintendo, been a long time )

    I don't live in my mom's basement, I moved out on my own when I was about 18 1/2 and have been a 'productive' member of society since, have worked my whole life, built a career out of machining and programming, etc etc...


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