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  1. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by standardparts View Post
    ...."worrisome signs"....Consider that a guy who goes by the tag "roaring kitty" seems to be the inspirational leader and right now his followers are gathering up every nickel and dime from under the sofa cushions to buy more GME, then you have cause to be freaking out.
    .
    Who has a cause to be freaking out? Not me, I don't think it matters. And if it did, whats the solution? outlaw stupidity?

    What will be fun to watch is what happens next. There will be real money to be made by the roaring kitty's of the world. Go long on any POS and make it the next social justice rallying point. someone could have made tens millions selling into this silliness...maybe it was the kitty? Really though, its just a new venue for the old pump and dump game to a new generation....which has also been around a long time. Chat sites like raging bull go back almost thirty years.....and the conversations there are truly astounding. Talk about the blind leading the blind......but no one noticed because it didn't have the reach a phone app has.

    The junior mining players I knew used to remind you of the saying "when they tell you the boys are getting in, it means the men are getting out"

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  3. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by sealark37 View Post
    The Biden family does not book its gains in the market. They prefer a percentage of their deals.
    Relevance? Please share details, is that something you know? or are you just trying to bring politics into it no matter what and make a mess of another thread

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    Quote Originally Posted by Trboatworks View Post
    I watch actual market behavior in real time- the worrying signs I see are largely what I call poor quality retail doing foolish things.
    It may in the long throw be just yet another episode of clearing out the "fools and their money" types who have suddenly started trading.
    didn't you say there was some morality involved in this?

    the whole concept was quite basic and strategically designed if you think about it - no fees or entry cost and it is right there on your phone = ability to reach into even the poorest and most ignorant pockets, and suggestive name to top it off

    the thing I wonder about - what will be the next thing to keep the beast fed if they had to resort to such lows...

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    Quote Originally Posted by jz79 View Post
    didn't you say
    I have no ideal what I said but take it all with some caution lol

    I do have say the RH thing helped push others into a zero fee model.
    I never really cared as my gain/loss in any given trade was so large as to make worry over a four buck cost of trade a non issue.
    But hell- money is money and I kept some in the account and invested which would have been paying for such overhead.

  8. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by jz79 View Post
    the whole concept was quite basic and strategically designed if you think about it - no fees or entry cost and it is right there on your phone = ability to reach into even the poorest and most ignorant pockets, and suggestive name to top it off

    the thing I wonder about - what will be the next thing to keep the beast fed if they had to resort to such lows...
    I get what you are saying, but what does that mean? You are in favour or barriers/costs/restrictions to individuals entering the market? Maybe like the sophisticated investor status create minimum levels of wealth before you can invest? Keep the little guy down?...that'll go over well. The solution might be improved education along with open platforms like Robinhood....although Robinhood is just a small increment to what is already very accessible and cheap direct trading.

    Sounds like the opposite of what most people want. And the market didn't create the free platform, a few bright people with an idea (and Sequoia capital) did. I would suspect most market players, broker dealers etc, would be highly opposed to something like Robinhood that further disintermediates them. That's the system working - innovation carves out costs and benefits the consumer. I agree on the name though, rather in poor taste imo as it triggers an emotive response vs logical.

  9. #66
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    Another classic "Pump and Dump". Buy lots of stock in a samll company, cheap, on the quiet. Then promote the heck out of the company. Maybe sell some stock back and forth at inflated prices until folks notice that price is rising. Watch it rise and sell it off quick before the bubble bursts. Move on to the next company.
    Only difference here is the promoters did this one in public so it is maybe not collusion.
    Reminds me of the guy who did this to lunch boxes as an expensive collectable. Bought them cheap then wrote a price list and created. a market before dumping hi inventory.
    Bill D
    Last edited by Bill D; 01-29-2021 at 01:16 PM.

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    I thought the FTC or whoever had an automatic circuit breaker that shut down individual stocks if the prices rose or feel to much in one day. Or is that just for the overall market? Seems simple enough to enforce it for individual stocks.
    How else was the robinhood company supposed to make money on free trades except a scam? Schwab switched to free trades but charges for advice and it charges a maintenance fee for mutual funds.
    How many here rember the Hunt brothers trying to corner the silver market.
    Bil lD.

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    I was going to make a call that it would take a week to get GME back to forty bucks a share but....
    There doesn't seem to a current limit on the effect of "animal spirits" so I am keeping my mouth shut,,,LOL


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    All of you forgot to mention that there is not a single share of stock is traded in this scheme, it is all options trading. That whole shit is the bane of the stock market. Arguments made that is allowing traders to effectively lend money to each other without having the money. I think that the rule should be, that you buy shares, the cash is due at the end of the trading day, you sell shares your cash is due to you on the same day, full share price, no carry over to the next trading day.

    dee
    ;-D

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bill D View Post
    Another classic "Pump and Dump". Buy lots of stock in a samll company, cheap, on the quiet. Then promote hte heck out of the company. Maybe sell some stock back and forth at inflated prices until folks notice that price is rising. Watch it rise and sell it off quick before the bubble bursts. Move on to the next company.
    Only difference here is the promoters did this one in public so it is maybe not colusion.
    Reminds me of the guy who did this to lunch boxes as an expensive collectable. Bought them cheap then wrote a price list and created. a market before dumping hi inventory.
    Bil lD
    Not really.

    They are simply buying the STOCK, not the HEDGE.

    And they are doing it for the sole purpose of ruining the hedge people....you know them....the ones that can buy hedges on 140% of available stock or more.

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    The main reason I don't own any stocks, never have and never will. It's like a big pyramid scheme where the few "in the know" at the top get rich fed by the peons below.

    I don't golf with the right people. Actually I don't gold at all.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bill D View Post
    Then promote hte heck out of the company. Maybe sell some stock back and forth at inflated prices until folks notice that price is rising. Watch it rise and sell it off quick before the bubble bursts. Move on to the next company.
    Only difference here is the promoters did this one in public so it is maybe not colusion.
    Over the classic bucket shop P&D I think its quite different...this isn't sustainable. The long crowd that bought GME up to 400 is going to crushed and they will have learned their first lesson in investing. P&D has always been there, but on small scale....it needs a constant replenishment of canon fodder which is harder to find in large quantities, continuously. Might be a one time event, at least on this scale

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    I guess it is important to understand the backdrop.
    GME has perhaps too large institutional holding, relatively few shares and a small float.
    A large percentage of that float was held short by some funds who are betting against the trend and as is often the case are probably right.

    They had to unwind due to the price runup.
    There is STILL a large percentage of float held short.
    There is STILL a large amount of closely held shares by institutional on long side.

    It was a pretty setup for a predatory short squeeze for the guys who play that way.
    Just like now is a pretty good setup for increasing the short side trade.

    How will it play going forward- the story is not really with retail and never really was.
    What happens now with the closely held shares.

    I'd say retail is out of the game if institutional decides to unwind.

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    Quote Originally Posted by digger doug View Post
    Not really.

    They are simply buying the STOCK, not the HEDGE.

    And they are doing it for the sole purpose of ruining the hedge people....you know them....the ones that can buy hedges on 140% of available stock or more.
    And that ladies and gentlemen nails it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Trboatworks View Post
    I guess it is important to understand the backdrop.
    GME has perhaps too large institutional holding and a small float.
    A large percentage of that float was held short by some funds who are betting against the trend and as is often the case are probably right.

    They had to unwind due to the price runup.
    There is STILL a large percentage of float held short.
    There is STILL a large amount of closely held shares by institutional on long side.

    It was a pretty setup for a predatory short squeeze for the guys who play that way.
    Just like now is a pretty good setup for increasing the short side trade.

    How will it play going forward- the story is not really with retail and never really was.
    What happens now with the closely held shares.

    I'd say retail is out of the game if institutional decides to unwind.
    I don't know if you understand the resolve of these WSB redditors. I'm not participating but I know some who are. This is like Occupy Wall Street, except instead of pitching tents and impotently shaking fists at "millionahs and billionahs" these people are getting together to actually wrest assets out of the hands of professional traders.

    You say the market isn't rigged, but that's because you take your lumps when a risky position doesn't pan out. That means it's not rigged... for you. Here we have some hedge funds who over extended, they are actively getting burned, their response is to pull out some dirty tricks to try and limit the bleeding. That's why we say it's rigged, they leverage all day but do not truly accept the risk of such.

    GME dropped $250 per share, over 61% in an hour or two yesterday, and approximately zero retail investors sold. The powers that be did everything they could to wiggle out of this, and the common man just started yelling "they don't have any more bullets!"

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    Quote Originally Posted by Trboatworks View Post
    I guess it is important to understand the backdrop.
    GME has perhaps too large institutional holding, relatively few shares and a small float.
    A large percentage of that float was held short by some funds who are betting against the trend and as is often the case are probably right.

    They had to unwind due to the price runup.
    There is STILL a large percentage of float held short.
    There is STILL a large amount of closely held shares by institutional on long side.

    It was a pretty setup for a predatory short squeeze for the guys who play that way.
    Just like now is a pretty good setup for increasing the short side trade.

    How will it play going forward- the story is not really with retail and never really was.
    What happens now with the closely held shares.

    I'd say retail is out of the game if institutional decides to unwind.
    Have no clue if you are right or wrong but you seem to be an experienced trader so will view your post as accurate.

    But...(you know that was coming) most probably the "new" retail buyers are clueless as to the risks and how the game is played. Actually that is probably pretty obvious. And most probably they will lose money.

    Only thing that is a given is that there is massive attention being given to what is happening and it's possible that the old school traders don't appreciate the attention.

    Damn millennials--this is simply not the way the "game" is played. LOL

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    Quote Originally Posted by BoxcarPete View Post
    I don't know if you understand the resolve of these WSB redditors. I'm not participating but I know some who are. This is like Occupy Wall Street, except instead of pitching tents and impotently shaking fists at "millionahs and billionahs" these people are getting together to actually wrest assets out of the hands of professional traders.

    You say the market isn't rigged, but that's because you take your lumps when a risky position doesn't pan out. That means it's not rigged... for you. Here we have some hedge funds who over extended, they are actively getting burned, their response is to pull out some dirty tricks to try and limit the bleeding. That's why we say it's rigged, they leverage all day but do not truly accept the risk of such.

    GME dropped $250 per share, over 61% in an hour or two yesterday, and approximately zero retail investors sold. The powers that be did everything they could to wiggle out of this, and the common man just started yelling "they don't have any more bullets!"
    I guess I am not wired to worry so much about the counter trade.
    In fact I couldn't care less- My goal is to be right.
    If I miss the market and the other other side of the trade is making money I could care less- they are not taking my money.
    If I am on correct side I am not taking money out of some other agent hands.
    There isn't any money to take- there literally isn't any money in Wall Street but an exchange.

    There is an equity which changes in value and where that exchange takes place is in the exchanges- for US guys that is often in NYSE.
    Predict that change well and you can sell to into that new market assessment for a profit.
    Do poorly and you take a loss.

    I am literally competing with being right about the future price award by the market.

    So really the only way a market can be rigged against me is if I commit the folly of using others to make my assessments.
    I don't.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Trboatworks View Post
    Well from where I am sitting I don’t think you are the only one.
    The problem is you are just one guy who thinks that’s a good thing.

    This particular distortion in the markets stinks of agency with an agenda to weaponize parts of market participation to weaken the markets.
    In the same way the Bitcoin idiots are in a way undermining faith in currency.

    It stinks.
    I hope I am exaggerating but it stinks.
    it'll suck in the short term if the system burns, but its a chance to rebuild it better.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Trboatworks View Post
    You do understand what collusion is don’t you?
    good luck proving that millions of teenagers colluded, lol

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    Quote Originally Posted by EmanuelGoldstein View Post
    Exactly. And the kids buying Gamestop perceived a valuable opportunity. They were rewarded handsomely, smart move !

    When Goldman does this, it's a-okay. Why do you think it's dishonorable for anyone else to play the same game ?


    I certainly do ! It's one of the prime aspects of the stock market, has been for decades !

    If you didn't care enough to crush it when the market crashed the entire world's economy, why would you care so much now ?

    I'm with emp, if they can't/won't make the thing honest, then burn it to the ground.
    jeez, what has the world come to that we agree with each other? lol

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