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  1. #141
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    Quote Originally Posted by drcoelho View Post
    I have a different take on this, the rise in stock prices of these various troubled companies was driven by social media and inexperienced or naive individual investors. These investors were buying stock not because they understood what they were buying but purely on the basis that because it went up yesterday, it'll go up today. This was an investment bubble, similar to Tulip mania - Wikipedia. In an orderly stock market, one wants to avoid such bubbles as they tend to cause collateral damage to the markets when they collapse (and they ALWAYS collapse). And the folks that will get hurt are the same individual investors that were chasing profits without understanding the risks they are taking.

    The argument that somehow some fat cat professional investors were rescued misses the point here. A lot of hedge funds were wiped by this event. The reason the retail stock brokerages started limiting trades was because the trading on these stocks was completely devoid of any relationship with the underlying value of the companies and thus a bubble that if left going would have hurt a lot more people than did get hurt.

    Amazon was running at a loss for many years, but people still traded Amazon stock.

  2. #142
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    Steve Cohen, the billionaire owner of the New York Mets, was among those who were the target of lay investors' rage.

    Mr Cohen's hedge fund, Point72, recently joined with Citadel, who invested $2.75bn into Melvin Capital, another hedge fund.

    Wow, those big shooters must know what they are doing...Not.
    Two near term My penny stock picks, TTOO and EMAN...

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  4. #143
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trboatworks View Post
    . . . In my lazy sort of way I have been trying to sort out just where that rage lies.
    Is anyone getting a good take on it? . . ..
    I don't have a full answer, but would note that both the right (Tea Party) and the left (Occupy Wall St.) are pissed off. Perhaps not in an entirely coherent way (no, Bernie, not all the 1% are corrupt), but with some justification.

    Our financial system has gone from the equivalent of public highways - cheap and easy ways to move (money) where it's needed - to a byzantine network of toll highways. There are little bits skimmed off the top everywhere you go.

    Medical insurance that costs too much. Insurance required to be in business. Merchant fees and Paypal fees. Lousy exchange rates for cross-border commerce. The big traders jumping ahead to keep all of the buy-ask spread for themselves. CEOs willing to ship jobs overseas, cheapen products, and screw customers for a quarterly bonus. Periodic outright scams that take down markets. Big financial firms investing in make-believe financial paper rather than real businesses. Real estate firms (like the one our former Treasury Secretary ran) kicking people out of homes for fun and profit. Massive bailouts for to-big-to-fail firms with the average taxpayer ending up with debt and (perhaps soon) inflation. Private equity firms running dangerous old folks homes or buying up once valuable companies, sucking out the value, and leaving the public to pick up the loss of jobs, pensions, etc. The list could go on.

    At the same time we notice that it's the financial types who have become multi-billionaires. Go to the Forbes richest list and the top ten or so are entrepreneurs who have arguably earned their riches. Look at numbers 11 through 50 and it's mostly people playing financial games. And then, some of them, taking their billions to buy even more regulatory and tax favor. It's as if the toll collectors are getting rich, not the people just trying to get back and forth to work.

    We'd agree that large parts of our financial system are still operating as they should. But big chunks of it are not -- and people are pissed.

    Might also add that the argued-about shift from internal combustion engines to electric vehicles is pretty much nothing compared to the gradually dawning recognition that we can't keep growing any physical economy 3% a year (much of that now Monopoly money here in the US) when economic ingredients like clean air, water, rare earth metals, good top soil, favorable weather, oil and gas reserves, phosphates for agriculture, fish stocks, and even bees for pollination and adequate supplies of the best sand needed to make concrete are diminishing. They're most surely surely not being replenished at 3% per year, ad infinitum, as economists still think is the way we're going to pay off our various debts and have a healthy civilization.

    I suspect people realize the shit (in no short supply these days) is going to hit the fan -- and some sort of fairly massive economic adjustment towards a sustainable economy will be needed. People are worried. Finance is both deserving of a great deal of blame and, when not, a convenient scapegoat.

    The next 200 years aren't going to look like the last 200 years. One hopes we find ways to be sustainable on the physical resource side, keep growing on an equally real but less tangible production side, and have real and rewarding (and rewarded) work for the vast majority of us.

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  6. #144
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    TRBoatWorks:

    I have been a 'redditor' for over 12 years so I likely have a better handle on this than most people, especially those who have never spent any time on Reddit.

    The answer is that there are many answers. Some will be doing it 'for the lolz' (just for laughs), some will be doing it as activism, others will be doing it because it's destructive and they believe that destruction is aimed at people they dislike (wallstreet/bankers/hedge funds). Others still are doing it because they disliked the idea that a hedge fund would deliberately seek to destroy a company in order to make profit.

    That last one is, from what I've seen, the motivation that brought in the most people. It is also the one that resonates the most with me, though I am not participating in any trades.

    You said earlier that the system is not 'rigged'... But the hedge funds have a loud voice. So if they take a large short on a stock, then start telling everyone "we think that company is in trouble so we're selling and you should too" then they can magically fulfill their own prophecy. Little words in the ears of other fund managers, commission a study or two on "the downfall of retail game sales", etc...

    They stand to make a bunch of money, and potentially put 14,000 people out of work at the same time. Normally there's not much that anyone could do about this I guess, but there sure are a lot of people that think this kind of action is completely unfair manipulation... So when WSB realized that the hedges had over-extended themselves suddenly there was blood in the water.

    It's a mistake to think of a community like Wall Street Bets as a cohesive whole. There are lots of people in there doing things for different reasons. Think of a flock of birds, any member of the flock that acts decisively enough can change the direction of the whole flock, but there is absolutely no real leader.

    Online crowds like this are interesting because most of the time their actions will be different/diluted enough to not really seem all that cohesive and to not really have any impact. But once in a while something touches a nerve and boils over to become a common goal, like in this case...

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    The premise behind wall street is to IPO an idea and try to make a go of it. Little guys and big guys can make some buck with this going forward.

    Social media hot stock, or chasing a lightning bolt is extremism.

    Trying to get even with wall street with reckless regulations could really tip the apple cart in a very bad way.

    Better keep an eye on that pen, or hide it altogether,

  8. #146
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trboatworks View Post
    Attachment 312170


    .............
    You get the belly laugh of the day award.

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    Short selling was illegal here until around 25 years ago,and is illegal right now ,the govt having paused it due to the conditions ruling with the virus.

  10. #148
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    Quote Originally Posted by michiganbuck View Post
    The premise behind wall street is to IPO an idea and try to make a go of it. Little guys and big guys can make some buck with this going forward.

    Social media hot stock, or chasing a lightning bolt is extremism.

    Trying to get even with wall street with reckless regulations could really tip the apple cart in a very bad way.

    Better keep an eye on that pen, or hide it altogether,

    It's pretty obvious that you have no idea what's going on here.

  11. #149
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    With stocks if some one made a bunch some else lost on it,
    Unlike commodities where every one can lose.

    Game stop well wouldn’t want to be left holding the bag when it goes under.

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    Quote Originally Posted by john.k View Post
    Short selling was illegal here until around 25 years ago,and is illegal right now ,the govt having paused it due to the conditions ruling with the virus.
    that’s how the Kennedy fortune was made selling short, the bootlegging just gave him the seed money

    Old Joe got the money the guys jumping out the windows lost.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 72bwhite View Post
    Old Joe got the money the guys jumping out the windows lost.
    The guys jumping out windows were buying on margin. They didn't have the money to lose, that's why they jumped out the windows. They were ruined because the stock market is not a rational appraiser of value, it's a casino.

    After 1929 some restraints were put in place, which perhaps created this innacurate view that TR has, and others share. But since Clinton there have been no controls and it is once again a casino, a death trap lying in wait. Sure as the sun rises in the east it will bring down the US once again.

    Reaganomics, freedumb, what can you say ? We lived through the best years of US history, it's all downhill from here.

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    Anyway,I seem to recall that Bloomberg moved into Gamestop last year ,around $74m at the time bought 12%....and has been appointed to the board,with the aim of repositioning the business,and increasing the stock price,with a focus on the hedges shorting the stocks repeatedly......Just maybe ,he has been behind giving the hedge funds a spanking......Its not hard to influence the basement commando s .

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    Quote Originally Posted by Spud View Post
    Amazon was running at a loss for many years, but people still traded Amazon stock.
    Yes, but amazon had amazing growth rates. Market rewards multiple things, not just revenue and profits. Youtube and others, the same idea, they were rewarded for growth rates and revenue/profits potential early on.

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    In Canada pretty much every trading platform was crashed most of the week or super sluggish at best, nice "coincidence". This whole thing stinks and is just more proof the whole thing is rigged against the little guys, its all Fugazi!!!
    My bet is when the next big correction/crash comes, most of us won't be able to login while the banks/hedge funds with direct links to the market will clean it out and we'll be down to nothing when we're allowed back into our accounts. " ohh server overload and maintenance at 9am on a week day BS " and blocking which stocks we can buy or sell again.

    Just wait until enough of us say F this and just pull it all out. Lots of the new traders aren't gonna put up with a sideways market that doesn't match real inflation.
    2020 was just a warmup. Occupy Wallstreet 2.0 will be epic.

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  18. #155
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    Silver.

    Gonna be a wild Monday.

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    I am not a big fan of the Gold and silver trade but don't see much to be excited bout in ZI.
    A long decaying price structure like so many commodities.
    Is it about to really break out- hard to say but it is just captive in short term consolidation as it trades up against resistance:



    On daily silver is trading a range it has been stuck in since July.
    Currently another test of upper constraint is being made.
    Will it break out and rise or be rejected again- hard to say if Monday is any real pivot day but price is at the line:


  21. #157
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    [QUOTE=Trboatworks;3703641]I am not a big fan of the Gold and silver trade but don't see much to be excited bout in ZI.
    A long decaying price structure like so many commodities.
    Is it about to really break out- hard to say but it is just captive in short term consolidation as it trades up against resistance:



    On daily silver is trading a range it has been stuck in since July.
    Currently another test of upper constraint is being made.
    Will it break out and rise or be rejected again- hard to say if Monday is any real pivot day but price is at the line:

    /QUOTE]

    Tell you what...if you got any "real" 1oz rounds I'll be happy to hear what you would sell them for. Not paper mind you. Physical silver.

    BTW..Do electric vehicles or solar panels use silver?

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    More silver- AGQ is a perfectly healthy bull chart.
    I'd say entries are well indicated and price profile fairly understandable:


  23. #159
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    Quote Originally Posted by standardparts View Post
    Tell you what...if you got any "real" 1oz rounds I'll be happy to hear what you would sell them for. Not paper mind you. Physical silver.

    BTW..Do electric vehicles or solar panels use silver?
    I used to trade cocoa futures pretty actively.
    I hate to admit it was sort of fun to fake dismay to the Missus over what would happen if I screwed up and had to take physical delivery if the minimum contract size of 22 tons...

    I really don't like the shinny metal trade because I read The Wealth of Nations and take the trade in physical to be a sort of doomsday hedge...

    Why you want physical- need a paper weight on a windy day?

  24. #160
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    I thought the next change in the market would be with coming out of covid an increase of revenues for many stocks, and perhaps earnings would cause the markets to rise for one to two years.

    Such recklessness as over shorting GME to 120%+ of the true number of shares may encourage the government to step in with regulations and really mess up the market.

    Some made a bundle on GME and others lost. but there is no/little way to tightly regulate full protections with not messing up the market.

    Yes in a highly controlled society like Cuba and North Korea and China you have few surprises, gains, or losses.


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