OT-Will USA pay Mexico to build the Wall?
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    Default OT-Will USA pay Mexico to build the Wall?

    It sort of looks like we will, under our contracting rules.

    Trump’s ‘Buy American’ Pledge May Be At Risk With His Border Wall - ProPublica

    But what the hell, we're giving Mexico our land to build it--may as well pay them as well: You can build a wall -- except here, a river runs through it - LA Times

    Gotta love a campaign slogan.

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    Trump is a MORON.
    Stop all traffic in and out between Mexico and the US till Mexico controlls it's own borders. No need to spend Billions on a wall.
    Boycott all products from Mexico. I bet you Mexico will stop all Illegals and drug smuggling themselves in a hurry.

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    US/Mexico Trade, in 2015, the latest year we have numbers for, was around $583 Billion, which includes $267 Billion in US exports to Mexico.
    Basically, a couple dozen states would go into recession, and several, including Arizona, and most likely the heavy corn growing states of the midwest, would go broke, if we actually cut off all traffic.
    And the $300 plus billion worth of goods we import- stopping them would cripple our economy even more. Parts for hundreds of billions of other exported products come from Mexico.

    But the OP's point, that not only will WE pay for the wall, but we will be paying mexican workers to do it, is most likely true.
    Although there is already a patriotic movement in Mexico telling contractors that if they do take work on the wall, many Mexicans will boycott them.
    And the wall, along with Trump's posturing, would almost definitely mean the next election, a left wing, anti-USA party would win all the Mexican elections.

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    My prediction is, there isn't going to be a wall. The Mexicans aren't paying and congress is very unlikely to approve 20 billion or so for one.

    The wall, immigration, and NAFTA are just like so many other things with Trump. As he said on the repeal and replace of ACA, "Nobody knew that health care could be so complicated".

    We're about 75 days into this presidency, as the saying goes the first 100 day set the course for the duration. So far it's been a train wreck.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ries View Post
    ........ a left wing, anti-USA party would win all the Mexican elections.
    I am certainly not an expert on any elections....definitely not Mexican elections. I have seen and read quite a few stories that basically Mexicans who have no intention of crossing the border in the middle of the night or otherwise.....dont give 2 shits about a border wall. We are led to believe that the population in Mexico is outraged about a border wall...I am sure there are also stats that would claim they are...or are not...The reality is the only people who are outraged by a border wall are the lefties here in the US, the government in Mexico, and those who wish to cross illegally for whatever reason they desire.
    I find it hard to believe that a factory worker in Mexico gives a damn one way or the other about a border wall....Hell ....they are probably hoping this is the start of trying to undo the BS in NAFTA and other trade agreements that are designed to keep them living in poverty.

    Thanks to NAFTA, Conditions for Mexican Factory Workers Like Rosa Moreno Are Getting Worse | Alternet

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    Quote Originally Posted by toolsteel View Post
    I am certainly not an expert on any elections....definitely not Mexican elections. I have seen and read quite a few stories that basically Mexicans who have no intention of crossing the border in the middle of the night or otherwise.....dont give 2 shits about a border wall. We are led to believe that the population in Mexico is outraged about a border wall...I am sure there are also stats that would claim they are...or are not...The reality is the only people who are outraged by a border wall are the lefties here in the US, the government in Mexico, and those who wish to cross illegally for whatever reason they desire.
    I find it hard to believe that a factory worker in Mexico gives a damn one way or the other about a border wall....Hell ....they are probably hoping this is the start of trying to undo the BS in NAFTA and other trade agreements that are designed to keep them living in poverty.

    Thanks to NAFTA, Conditions for Mexican Factory Workers Like Rosa Moreno Are Getting Worse | Alternet
    this is not what I have read.
    I know a fair amount of mexicans- I live in farm country, and, farming, in the USA, generally means mexican and central american workers, legal and not. Every one I know is heartily pissed off against the wall, whether they are US citizens or not.
    Every mexican I know still has relatives at home, has friends and relatives who are not legal, and wants to travel back and forth easily, have their nephews come visit disneyland, have their parents able to come see the grandkids.

    in mexico, there is a big wave of patriotism, often signalled by putting the mexican flag on your facebook page, and its all anti-trump and anti-wall.

    Big demonstrations down there, against the wall.
    Thousands of Mexicans protest Donald Trump and his wall | Public Radio International

    lots of political maneuvering about the wall.

    One thing that really pisses mexicans off is the whole wall thing, to them, indicates that americans dont respect how much mexico contributes to the trade between the two countries. The average mexican both benefits and contributes, and they know it. They have their own issues with Nafta- cheap midwestern corn has made it hard for local mexican farmers to compete, and then, their kids cant work on the family farm, and move to the city.
    Lots of issues here, including a definite backlash against any mexican companies that work on the wall. Even death threats.
    Subscribe to read
    Hispanic contractors offer to build Trump’s border wall; then death threats began - San Antonio Express-News

    I cant speak for average mexican workers, but the pressure is enough that Cemex, which is one of the largest concrete companies in the world, has said they wont work on it.
    Under pressure, Mexican-owned Cemex says it won't help build Trump's border wall - LA Times

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    I don't think the wall will stop the problem. Work rules might. But not for working for cash. We need to be fair to immigrants like we were back when there were rules and filling out proper papers.
    Crooks and bad guys from any country should go out as soon as they get caught doing serious bad things, or when they get out of jail..
    The really bad guys should be hung IMHO.

    Yes I knew a lot of good guys in California that were (likely) illegals.. Perhaps they might get some preference on papers.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ries View Post
    this is not what I have read.
    I know a fair amount of mexicans- I live in farm country, and, farming, in the USA, generally means mexican and central american workers, legal and not. Every one I know is heartily pissed off against the wall, whether they are US citizens or not.
    Every mexican I know still has relatives at home, has friends and relatives who are not legal, and wants to travel back and forth easily, have their nephews come visit disneyland, have their parents able to come see the grandkids.

    in mexico, there is a big wave of patriotism, often signalled by putting the mexican flag on your facebook page, and its all anti-trump and anti-wall.

    Big demonstrations down there, against the wall.
    Thousands of Mexicans protest Donald Trump and his wall | Public Radio International

    lots of political maneuvering about the wall.

    One thing that really pisses mexicans off is the whole wall thing, to them, indicates that americans dont respect how much mexico contributes to the trade between the two countries. The average mexican both benefits and contributes, and they know it. They have their own issues with Nafta- cheap midwestern corn has made it hard for local mexican farmers to compete, and then, their kids cant work on the family farm, and move to the city.
    Lots of issues here, including a definite backlash against any mexican companies that work on the wall. Even death threats.
    Subscribe to read
    Hispanic contractors offer to build Trump’s border wall; then death threats began - San Antonio Express-News

    I cant speak for average mexican workers, but the pressure is enough that Cemex, which is one of the largest concrete companies in the world, has said they wont work on it.
    Under pressure, Mexican-owned Cemex says it won't help build Trump's border wall - LA Times
    Well.....at least you are getting your info from unbiased sources with no axe to grind.........and not relying on anecdotes

    If someone can look at 12M illegals in a country and throw their hands up and say "whats the problem?" or " we would hate to offend someone by at least attempting to secure our border".... Then they have an agenda they are unwilling to admit to.....the real problem is those who are screaming the loudest realize....shit...a wall isnt gonna stop everyone....but it is gonna stop many.

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    Still if everybody comes to the USA then it will not be as good as it can be, China, Mexico, Russia and some Muslim countries will be near empty, social security will be broke and thete won't be enough space or jobs..

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    Hard to predict the future. But some of the following seem likely:

    - We continue to build a hodge podge of fences, stations, and bits of wall. Since illegal immigration is already way down, not much changes. For example, drug dealers still find a way in by tunnel, air, or sea -- since there is still demand. Trump declares victory.

    - We still don't have health care for everyone (a Trump promise) and prices continue to rise for good policies; since nothing is being done to fix the underlying cause of our health care costing 2x per capita compared to other nations. Trump says it's not his fault.

    - We do tax "reform" which consists of offering tax breaks mostly to the wealthiest Americans. The middle class shrinks still further. Meanwhile we cut long term investments in our future (R&D, schools, etc. -- think of all those no-nothing cabinet appointments) and the debt jumps even higher (not enough income). However we do get a temporary bump to the economy and Trump declares victory.

    - Even after blaming Mexicans and the Chinese, the growth of good jobs for marginally educated Americans is still stalled. Turns out it wasn't the Mexicans and rarely the Chinese automating jobs out of existence. Trump declares victory.

    - We get mired, pretty much like past administrations, in war. Only with even less of the world on our side. The incidence of terrorist attacks from those outside the US iand from Trump-designated countries increases. It pretty much has to, since apart from the Saudi Arabians in 9-11 we pretty much haven't had terrorists attacks from those outside the country. There's pretty much no where to go but "up" in terms of terror on our soil -- and we're doing plenty to inspire those terrorists. Still, Trump declares victory.

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    Quote Originally Posted by toolsteel View Post
    Well.....at least you are getting your info from unbiased sources with no axe to grind.........and not relying on anecdotes
    Yeah, I wonder what Breitbart and Newsmax have to say on the matter.....



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    And much of what Trump tried to do was voted down.

    So looks like a go no where or stay the same.. that may be good or bad.

    Do hope we get more USA jobs out of this..That can't be bad...Unless you are making big bucks from selling China products and don't care about the deficit.

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    Building a wall is a waste of money. Who needs who the more anyway? I'm certainly no expert on Mexico and Mexicans but I can imagine they are like any other population in any country. Push enough and often and the push will be reciprocated.
    Any American should know to never underestimate patriotism.

    Assuming the Mexican government isn't stupid, and Trump seems to believe they're smarter than congress, then Mexico will look to other countries to trade. I believe this is already happening.

    Is Mexico really a country the USA wants to piss off?

    Mexico | United States Trade Representative

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    It's funny how virtually every response on this thread if from someone who isn't within 500 miles of the border. Try living 50 miles from the border and tell me it's not a problem. aa.jpg

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    ^^^ not to worry, just have DT contact Linda McMahon and he can turn those guys into genuine tax paying citizens!

    They would be Yuge!!!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Larry Dickman View Post
    I . . .Try living 50 miles from the border and tell me it's not a problem.
    I suspect lots of us think we'd like to see all immigration follow legal rules -- or as close to 100% as possible. IMO each new immigrant should, as best we can tell, add value rather than take it from our country.

    The question is -- will the Trump approach of trying to get Mexico to pay for something like a 50' tall concrete wall (the more they complain, the higher he says it will be) will have any sort of decent return on investment. My take -- no.

    We already have a policy of deporting dangerous criminals. Happy to see that continued and made more effective.

    We already have laws against employing illegal aliens. Happy to see those enforced; perhaps starting with Trump's candidate for Labor Secretary. If you had to get a worker pass to get a job, the vast majority people would get worker passes.

    We already have laws against dealing drugs; but the "war" on drugs has been largely a boondoggle. Find a way to cut the demand for hard drugs here, and the Colombians and others would try to find someone else to exploit and terrorize.

    Let's try an analogy here. Suppose we wanted to solve the problem of US medical costs being 2x higher than other first world nations. Which approach would you take:

    1) Declare all doctors, nurses, medical researchers etc. as thugs, thieves, and likely rapists. Blame them for most everything wrong in America. (Yeah, I suppose there might be some good ones. ) They're killers. In fact, 30% of hospital deaths really are caused by medical mistakes. So, build a wall around every medical facility and only allow ones to enter who promised to cut costs and obey the new rules.

    2) Start with the premise that most are trying to do the right thing -- and work with them to root out the fewer cases of corruption. Try a mix of both carrots and sticks to get as close to 100% of the medical establishment working primarily on behalf of their patients.

    The "Wall" may be attractive to some as a symbol -- and Berlin-Wall-esque and inhumane as a symbol to others. But it's not a very well reasoned response to the real problems of illegal immigration.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Larry Dickman View Post
    It's funny how virtually every response on this thread if from someone who isn't within 500 miles of the border. Try living 50 miles from the border and tell me it's not a problem.
    I for one would like to know what the problem is you are dealing with 50 miles from the border. It's probably different from that 500 miles away - or is it?

    I'm not trying to be snide as I am curious. I'm assuming being as close as you are you see more Mexicans than most.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Larry Dickman View Post
    It's funny how virtually every response on this thread if from someone who isn't within 500 miles of the border. Try living 50 miles from the border and tell me it's not a problem. aa.jpg
    The solution is obvious:

    The entire cost of the wall should be borne by people who live within 50 miles of the border.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gordon B. Clarke View Post
    I for one would like to know what the problem is you are dealing with 50 miles from the border. It's probably different from that 500 miles away - or is it?

    I'm not trying to be snide as I am curious. I'm assuming being as close as you are you see more Mexicans than most.
    The main thing I deal with everyday is the INTERNAL border check points EVERY SINGLE FUCKING DAY I GO TO WORK!!!

    Its like the TSA, with guns, I don't think a single fucking one of 'em can read.. And heaven forbid you get
    a short one or a muscle head with an itty bitty penis.. You'd think you were the one that flew both planes
    into the world trade centers. "where are you going" "where are you coming from" "where do you work" "where
    do you live" "why are you going there" "what do you do for a living" "What is in your trunk, can I look?"
    "Is this your truck" etc....

    Other than that, there are people out here with slightly darker skin, some speak a funny language and listen
    to strange music and cook spicy food.. As for crime, I've had more stolen from me out here by white anglos with
    European last names than anything else, by a large margin.

    The last cop shot here in Hatch was by a WHITE guy from OHIO.

    Bigger wall, the only thing it will change in my life is that there will be a bigger wall. If I
    hated brown people and mexican food, it might make my penis feel bigger, but I think its a bunch of
    bullshit. Border Patrol is literally EVERY FUCKING WHERE, and as much as I hate the internal checkpoints,
    in the past 3 or 4 years they have really scaled it back and put the BORDER patrol, back ON THE BORDER. There
    are now 3 or 4 "agents" at the internal checkpoints instead of 30 or 40.

    White trash will still be white trash, and brown trash will still be brown trash... And quite honestly the
    modest amount of illegals I've met/come across were trying to build themselves a better life, and most were
    damn near killing themselves to be able to send money back to mexico or South America to help their families.
    I respect that..

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    Bob,

    They must think your suspicious.....

    I went through Las Cruses two weeks ago on I-10 they just waved me through...

    We should just annex Mexico .......They would have a first , second amendment, castle doctrine etc and give them six months to "fix" their own damn problems.


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