Poor vehicle choices

Anyone else in the same boat? I have a 2003 F-350 7.3 SRW.
For safety and stability I need to move to a dually. (I should have purchased one in the first place). The current Diesel offerings from the big 3 in a 1 ton have either DPF or DEF which has proven to be quite troublesome and potentially expensive to operate. Of course this has been forced down our throats by big brother. The 460 and 454 are long gone so the gassers simply do not have the guts to pull 18k-20k. The Ford v-10 is supposed to be a POS, and other than a Cummins, Dodge has nothing to offer. A frank discussion with an honest Dodge service manager said "I wouldn't have one of these new Diesel trucks"! In my case it will not be a daily driver and will see about 5k-10k miles per year but may rarely pull 25k for ag use. This includes hay, tractors, Case backhoe, Etc. Use could go up though. My 2003 is giving up the ghost! So what do you do just bend over and take it?
Legdoc

Find a low mile used 1-ton dodge/chevy/ford . . . simple solution

What part of your truck is giving up the ghost? If it is the motor, I would weigh the cost of either having it properly refurbed or exchange it for a newer crate engine of the same kind that predates the emisions crap. If it is the sheet metal then maybe you can find one that has a bad motor and swap yours for it and keep going. If it is a combination then the Gurus suggestion is probably your best bet.

I just looked at Chevy's website. It looks like the big 8.1L gasser is finally gone. To bad, it would pass anything but a gas station.

I know of a guy who has been through all the trucks - Chevy, Ford, and Dodge diesels and has finally settled on Chevy's 8.1L gasser. He put about 100K a year each on two pickups chasing tugboats up and down the Mississippi.

While I'm not a diesel pu fan, I believe you have the last of the "good" powerstrokes. Resale should be very good.

Have you looked at something like the Freightliner FL-60 toy haulers? Bigger than a pick-up, but much better for hauling. It has real tires and brakes in the event you wish to stop.

Die-hard Ford guy here, so take that into consideration when I tell you this:
I own a 2003 F350 DRW with a 6.0....it'll be the last 'newish' (bought it @ 2yo w/ 35k miles on it) Ford truck I'll ever buy- the chassis is indestructable, but the motor is becoming problematic, the front suspension is not sufficient to carry the motor weight, and anything newer is junk....rumor (trusted sources, but I haven't confirmed it 'officially' yet b/c it isn't really pertinent to me anymore) has it that Ford will no longer offer stick shift in any model trucks anymore.

A buddy works for the county, and they just took delivery of several new Dodge diesels- he says they're a nightmare

dunno about the current Chev options, so no comment

My current plan (once my 6.0 get too problematic to deal with anymore) is to drop a 12v non-computer controlled Cummins in it....failing that, I'll be shopping around for something even older, as suggested by ARFF79 & MG

What is the story with the new engines? Or did the value engineer the chasis?

The story is new emissions requirements. Whether you call it DPF (diesel particulate fluid), AdBlue (trade name), or urea, its a liquid you add when you refuel. The engine controller adds the fluid to the exhaust to reduce the NOx emissions. Like all new technology it takes a while to get the bugs worked out.

In Ford's case this is added to a completely new engine so there will be multiple sources of bugs to work out.

The slightly old Ford 6.0L is as problematic as the old 7.3 Powerstrokes were bulletproof. I know several people who have said they wish they had never gotten rid of the 7.3 but haven't heard anyone who prefers the newer 6.0.

gbent said:

Have you looked at something like the Freightliner FL-60 toy haulers? Bigger than a pick-up, but much better for hauling. It has real tires and brakes in the event you wish to stop.

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I agree totally. Get a real truck.

The hot ticket for something in this size range is supposed to be a combination of Ford chassis and body with a Cummins installed. I've got a buddy who's up on this -- I'll see if I can get him to chime in. Seems this sort of conversion is quite popular now.

A certain year range of Fords have a problem with one of the rear plugs literally blowing out and taking the threads with it. If removing the head, there is also some issue about the firewall covering the rear part of the engine such that getting out one of the bolts requires lifting the cab (though it seems some have found a way to just hammer the firewall or simply cut a hole in it).

Study-up on the Ford truck forums too see which ones come with these nifty kinds of problems.

{Edit to fix}: improperly stated "spark plug" above -- can't remember whether it was spark plugs in the V-10 gas engine or glow plugs in the Powerstrokes. At any rate, be aware that there are issues.

W_Higgins said:

A certain year range of Powerstroke Fords have a problem with one of the rear spark plugs literally blowing out and taking the threads with it.

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On a diesel? Really?

gbent said:

On a diesel? Really?

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Sorry about that -- edited my goof. I was overlapping my thoughts of Powerstrokes and the gas engines. I think the gas engines have the plug issue and the Powerstrokes have a head gasket problem. Anyway.... I think all these little things is why people are figuring out how to fit Cummins' to their Fords!

W_Higgins said:

improperly stated "spark plug" above -- can't remember whether it was spark plugs in the V-10 gas engine or glow plugs in the Powerstrokes. At any rate, be aware that there are issues.

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The spark plug issue was years ago..... on the v-10's and 5.4's as I recall. Dad has a 2008 dodge 3500 dually with the 6 speed auto, bluetec 6.7 cummins, and beside a few minor service calls its been a good truck over 30,000 miles. There have been some computer reprogrammings done( 1 or 2 within a month of when the truck was new and was the bluetec) but nothing I'd call major. Compared to my 2000 F350 7.3L drw 4.10 geared truck,, the cummins feels as stong stock as the ford does tuned +80 hp.

As to your choices....simple, find an older 7.3l dually or bite the bullet and pick what you feel are the lesser of the evils in new trucks. You could also find a 2007 or earlier 5.9l common rail dodge without the dpf.

Talking to my buddy refreshed my memory on the diesel issue. The later troublesome Powerstrokes are prone to head gasket failures on account of the torque-to-yield head bolts letting go. They sell hardware kits to replace these bolts with ones that will hold. I would think if you catch this problem before the gasket actually goes that you could replace the bolts one at a time in the sequence of torque and do the job without removing the heads (this is the job where the cab has to be lifted or firewall modified to get everything apart). From what I understand, aside from this weak point, they are fine engines, otherwise.

What input I have had on the Ford V10 has been favorable, if you are only putting between five and ten thousand miles a year on the vehicle but you need to pull heavy loads occasionally that might be the way for you to go.
At work I have eight trucks with the IHC VT 365 (Ford calls it a 6.0 Powerstroke) and they have had their share of problems, EGR coolers, injectors and the IDM have all been known to act up. I have 15 trucks with the Cummins ISB 07 and those have been great. One of the Cummins trucks stays in town and I need to do a manual regeneration of the DPF about once a week. I have one other truck that needs it about once a month. All the other trucks are driven long enough and hard enough every day so that none of them have needed to regenerate the DPF in the two years we have had them.
I am supposed to be getting 6 trucks with the latest Cummins in them within the next month, it will be interesting to see what problems there are with them.
Zoom

I appreciate the comments. The 7.3 was the last good Diesel ford has had. Mine Is a early 03 with a leftover 7.3. Unfortunately a DRW was not available at that late date.
I have heard of the problems with the V-10 gasser blowing spark plugs out thus destroying the head. One has to wonder what kind of engineers come up with this crap. They have been building motor vehicles well over 100 years! I might try to find that rare 7.3 dually or a FL-60. The big 3 and big brother can stick their DPF and DEF systems way up their ass!
Legdoc

"pickup truck" and "towing 20k" don't belong in the same paragraph, especially when you have a need to step on the center pedal.

2003 truck "giving up the ghost"? I can only WISH I had a truck that new!

Emissions BAHHH

These new EPA requirements are playing hob with all of the Fire Truck manufacturers. Last year in advance of these rules becoming effective Cat and a few others said no more for US sales. Add to this the fact that the new emissions gear needs to go were the pump usually goes, along with an unpredictable automated regeneration cycle that could occure while you are pumping the truck has us lobbying for exemptions on the safety issue alone. We are not holding our collective breaths especially with Cap and Trade looming on the horizon.

I will second the "buy a real truck" advise. Todays pickups and they have been for along time are nothing but passenger vehicles that get used and in many cases abused to haul loads far exceeding their designed and value engineered ratings.

Since you are a Ford guy I would check into the F600 and F700 trucks as they can be had with both a Brazilian built diesel and also a Cummins. I can't tell you what years what all was available in engine options but I am sure someone on here can do just that. As for the 7.3l while its been a fairly decent engine its just not in the same class as the inline's. A friend of mine had been hauling their racing equipment trailer with a Ford F350 with the 460 in it (last year of the 460 whatever year that was) and he finally bought a toterhome thing built on a Ford F700 chassis with the Brazilian diesel in it. The F700 loafs down the interstate at 75 mph and will get in the upper teens for fuel mileage. I can say this he will never go back to a passenger vehicle impersonating a truck again.

There is also the IH or Navistar line of trucks with the ever bullet proof DT466 diesel in them. This would be my preference as parts are very easy to come by as these trucks and engines are everywhere. They also offer a low pro series and many have been built into "beefy" toterhome haulers and overgrown pickup trucks. I also like the fact that unlike the Ford and GM medium size trucks the IH trucks feel and drive more like a big truck with much better visibility and maneuverability. Both the Ford and GM you sit down low and the steering wheel is much more vertical.

As for GM their only offering in a real truck of recent years has been the Kodiak and Topkick line. They offered the CAT 3116 and 3126 diesel engines both of which I have heard people brag about when lower mileage and then cuss at when virtually any repairs are needed as anything with CAT on it gets expensive fast. One thing of interest in the Kodiak and Topkick line is that for the lowpro trucks I think it was Midwest truck body offered an oversized pickup looking bed for them. I have seen acouple and the beds on trucks and they look pretty neat its just the newer GM medium duty trucks are butt ugly.

Check out your local medium/heavy duty truck dealers. There is a huge surplus of trucks out there right now and many are willing to deal.

tim

One other thing I meant to mention that if at all possible try to stay with a mechanical engine if you are going to work on it yourself.

fordcummins.com - Increase Horsepower with Ford Cummins Diesel conversion kits



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Think Snow Eh!
Ox

alcosteam said:

I will second the "buy a real truck" advise. Todays pickups and they have been for along time are nothing but passenger vehicles that get used and in many cases abused to haul loads far exceeding their designed and value engineered ratings.

Since you are a Ford guy I would check into the F600 and F700 trucks as they can be had with both a Brazilian built diesel and also a Cummins. I can't tell you what years what all was available in engine options but I am sure someone on here can do just that. As for the 7.3l while its been a fairly decent engine its just not in the same class as the inline's. A friend of mine had been hauling their racing equipment trailer with a Ford F350 with the 460 in it (last year of the 460 whatever year that was) and he finally bought a toterhome thing built on a Ford F700 chassis with the Brazilian diesel in it. The F700 loafs down the interstate at 75 mph and will get in the upper teens for fuel mileage. I can say this he will never go back to a passenger vehicle impersonating a truck again.

There is also the IH or Navistar line of trucks with the ever bullet proof DT466 diesel in them. This would be my preference as parts are very easy to come by as these trucks and engines are everywhere. They also offer a low pro series and many have been built into "beefy" toterhome haulers and overgrown pickup trucks. I also like the fact that unlike the Ford and GM medium size trucks the IH trucks feel and drive more like a big truck with much better visibility and maneuverability. Both the Ford and GM you sit down low and the steering wheel is much more vertical. ....

.....
Check out your local medium/heavy duty truck dealers. There is a huge surplus of trucks out there right now and many are willing to deal.

tim

One other thing I meant to mention that if at all possible try to stay with a mechanical engine if you are going to work on it yourself.

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I am so happy you said this, and he is spot on. If all you plan is max 20,000 miles a year, you can find plenty of 200,000 mile 600-700 class trucks for 15,000 bucks or so.

Perhaps my execution (miles and price) aren't what you agree to, but the fact is medium duty trucks are serious trucks. I go to the landfill on a regular basis and see those "roofer's rigs" of newish dually diesels of all makes, towing a dumping trailer. The truck doesn't look 'happy'.

If I spoke spanish, I could suggest a used medium duty crew cab International from a municipal fleet, but I don't speak spanish.


Alcostream is spot-on.
Start with Used Trucks For Sale at TruckPaper.com: Freightliner, International Trucks, Kenworth, Peterbilt, Mack trucks, dump trucks, dump trailers, used trailers for sale to get a feel for what's out there.

Oh, don't forget, a 'real' truck has real tires, such as 19.5s, no need to pay $$$ for a wheel conversion.

Nothing in Texas for flatbed dumps (my fav), but here is one in Lowell Arkansas:

http://www.truckpaper.com/listingsdetail/detail.aspx?OHID=2380469

Not air brakes.Very clean and dry. Cold A/C. Double frame. Excellent radials all around. 4) Virgin matched General drivers. Ledwell bed. Steel floor with semi removable 24" sides.

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$16,200 102,000 miles.


If you plan on fifth wheel hitch, I have seen them installed in a pocket, but the trailer neck won't be stock. Perhaps 19.5 tires on a low-profile chassis is the best choice for a fifth-wheel install.

TruckPaper.com has an excellent search engine, and they will send email alerts when new search results arrive.

I think that 16 foot bed is a bit long, if you are coming from a pickup truck, but shorter units are to be found, say 10 - 12 foot.

"Farmer plates" can lessen the cost of registration.