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  1. #2361
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    Quote Originally Posted by cnctoolcat View Post
    T
    Having grown up and living in the Appalachian region where coal and natural gas production are a big part of the regional economies, it’s easy to understand why myself and so many others vote out of consideration for their wallets...
    ToolCat
    How's that coal thing working out for you?

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    Quote Originally Posted by jancollc View Post
    I've always held that the gov't has a lot of power to harm the economy, but very little to help.

    Get out of the way, the private sector will do what it does best.
    Including unnecessarily killing more of the population than the governments virus control measures.

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    Quote Originally Posted by barbter View Post
    From what I remember, my take was it was more accurate than not.
    Unfortunately

    I thought it pretty much nailed the reality of biomass -- which was the bulk of the film. I had to check my own state's use of it (turns out it's pretty low).

    On solar it seemed almost childish. Big surprise to them that that solar needed backup for when the sun wasn't shining. And then because fossil fuels were used in producing the panels, and there were toxic wastes, the whole solar thing wrong. What was missing is a complete life cycle costing - something the producers seemed incompetent to even attempt. Do that and solar generation costs about the same per KWhr (less in some places), has about 20% of the greenhouse gas footprint from cradle to grave, and once the toxic residues of, say, coal vs. solar and considered both are way more toxic, and roughly equivalently so, than we pretend. Solar's not a panacea, but still a worthwhile contribution.

    The film almost completely missed a discussion of potential nuclear options. And while it hinted we need some energy conservation, I don't remember mention of the many things we can do.

    The ending was powerful, perhaps, but a typical cheap shot. The problem isn't so much that Brazil takes the sugar out of sugar cane and then burns the residue as a fuel, but that it lets crooks keep stealing forest land and chopping it down for more cane production.

    What it does do - and well - is skewer some of the hypocrisy and BS on all sides. Al Gore, the Sierra Club, and "350" don't fare well.

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  6. #2364
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    Quote Originally Posted by jancollc View Post
    I've always held that the gov't has a lot of power to harm the economy, but very little to help.

    Get out of the way, the private sector will do what it does best.

    Try running a business without water, sewers, police, fire, educated workers, roads, transport, phones, electric grid, standards, the Internet, markets, a financial system, rule of law, patents, maybe basic R&D and the long term "investment" we made to have a freer world post WWII. The guy who usually gets credit for inventing NC did so on a government contract. CAD and FEA (Nastran) also teethed on government funding. Ditto the Internet, much of Apple's tech, the basic research behind pharma, etc. etc. Right now, for better or worse (yet to be decided) the government seems the only entity capable of periodically rescuing us from the excesses of private greed (S&L crisis, Dot.com bubble, 2008 Great Recession, 2020 Dow binge, etc.) by providing liquidity.

    As for the both the private sector and government -- they're often being run poorly these days. A skeptic would say that what private industry recently seems to do best is screw the economy (Goldman Sachs and others), kill users (737 Max, Shkreli pharma, GM ignition switches), sell out to China (Wal-Mart), externalize costs (Dow, Exxon, BP), charge us 2x for healthcare, lead us into senseless wars, capitalize profits and socialize debts, etc. etc. And, sure, government is often equally inept or malign, witness current times.

    Both private industry and government can perform well and perform poorly. All depends upon how they're run.

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    Quote Originally Posted by PeteM View Post
    Try running a business without water, sewers, police, fire, educated workers, roads, transport, phones, electric grid, standards, the Internet, markets, a financial system, rule of law, patents, maybe basic R&D and the long term "investment" we made to have a freer world post WWII. The guy who usually gets credit for inventing NC did so on a government contract. Ditto the Internet, much of Apple's tech, the basic research behind pharma, etc. etc. Right now, for better or worse (yet to be decided) the government seems the only entity capable of periodically rescuing us from the excesses of private greed (S&L crisis, Dot.com bubble, 2008 Great Recession, 2020 Dow binge, etc.) by providing liquidity.

    As for the both the private sector and government -- they're often being run poorly these days. A skeptic would say that what private industry recently seems to do best is screw the economy (Goldman Sachs and others), kill users (737 Max, Shkreli pharma, GM ignition switches), sell out to China (Wal-Mart), externalize costs (Dow, Exxon, BP), charge us 2x for healthcare, lead us into senseless wars, capitalize profits and socialize debts, etc. etc. And, sure, government is often equally inept or malign, witness current times.

    Both private industry and government can perform well and perform poorly. All depends upon how they're run.
    Pete,
    you obviously have way too much time on your hands. You haven't worked in decades.

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    Quote Originally Posted by otrlt View Post
    Pete,
    you obviously have way too much time on your hands. You haven't worked in decades.

    Seems that makes two of us (time to waste here).

    You know the work thing, how? Not decades. Singular. One decade since full time. Given 6 months to live with cancer and a hell of a battle to escape it. Now happily living past my expiration date.

    Staying busy, though. This morning I had a "Zoom" session chock full of execs. Speaker was one of the nation's leading experts in lean manufacturing - more honors than you can shake a stick at. Plus more work on the kids' science program (lesson plans) I started -- that and failing to explain arithmetic to a few folks here in a situation where lives are actually in the balance.

    Lincoln would have said something about horses, water, and drink.

    Why don't you show us all the cool machines you've bought for the upturn? That might actually get a listen.

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    Yeah,and once upon a time the people at the top had honesty and integrity....they would resign on a matter of principle ,..have to look in the history books for the last time that happened

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    Quote Originally Posted by otrlt View Post
    Pete,
    you obviously have way too much time on your hands. You haven't worked in decades.
    He's also probably dropped to half his original IQ.

    Unfortunately for you, he's still twice as smart as you were at your best - which was a while ago.

    Pete thinks, analyses and makes thought-provoking posts. You're just an empty booster without substance.

    PDW

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    Quote Originally Posted by PeteM View Post
    I thought it pretty much nailed the reality of biomass -- which was the bulk of the film. I had to check my own state's use of it (turns out it's pretty low).

    On solar it seemed almost childish. Big surprise to them that that solar needed backup for when the sun wasn't shining. And then because fossil fuels were used in producing the panels, and there were toxic wastes, the whole solar thing wrong. What was missing is a complete life cycle costing - something the producers seemed incompetent to even attempt. Do that and solar generation costs about the same per KWhr (less in some places), has about 20% of the greenhouse gas footprint from cradle to grave, and once the toxic residues of, say, coal vs. solar and considered both are way more toxic, and roughly equivalently so, than we pretend. Solar's not a panacea, but still a worthwhile contribution.

    The film almost completely missed a discussion of potential nuclear options. And while it hinted we need some energy conservation, I don't remember mention of the many things we can do.

    The ending was powerful, perhaps, but a typical cheap shot. The problem isn't so much that Brazil takes the sugar out of sugar cane and then burns the residue as a fuel, but that it lets crooks keep stealing forest land and chopping it down for more cane production.

    What it does do - and well - is skewer some of the hypocrisy and BS on all sides. Al Gore, the Sierra Club, and "350" don't fare well.
    Pete,
    Ref the whole solar *thing*.
    I'm sure it was just dumbed down to the basics which is oil/gas manufactures the solar, and you still need oil/gas as a 100% back-up for when the wind stops blowing or it's cloudy.

    I agree they did a great hatchet job on the Koch Brothers and Al Gore etc.
    But it's nothing that hasn't been out there for some years - it's just now getting more out there.

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    It's not looking good for airlines and by definition aircraft manufacturers. Warren Buffet is getting out of airlines even if that means losing money.

    Regards Tyrone.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tyrone Shoelaces View Post
    It's not looking good for airlines and by definition aircraft manufacturers. Warren Buffet is getting out of airlines even if that means losing money.

    Regards Tyrone.
    I say get those planes flying again to give us some cover!
    Yesterday it was VERY hot here. 28C where it was 29 the day before BUT the sun was so intense.
    Last two summers (August) it's been 38C air/shade temp and with a thermometer in the direct sun, it's 48C (so 10C solar rise).
    Yesterday with 28C air/shade temp, and with the same thermometer in the same position in direct sun (as the summer), it was 50C.
    Usually, solar rise is 8>12C from my understanding. 22C seems very extreme. But it was VERY hot!

    Where's Greta when I need her?

    And as for Buffet...regarding the film Pete posted about, Buffet is into the whole renewables *thing* big style. Afterall, it's fully sponsored by gubmint handouts.
    He'll be getting out of aerospace now, and then he'll be buying back into it again in the future at a nice low price - no doubt.
    Like it or not, the renewables *climate change fear* will be ramping RIGHT up as soon as our latest (virus) news headline has died away.
    But for the future, planes aren't flying on batteries.
    No they're not.

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    Quote Originally Posted by barbter View Post
    I say get those planes flying again to give us some cover!
    Yesterday it was VERY hot here. 28C where it was 29 the day before BUT the sun was so intense.
    Last two summers (August) it's been 38C air/shade temp and with a thermometer in the direct sun, it's 48C (so 10C solar rise).
    Yesterday with 28C air/shade temp, and with the same thermometer in the same position in direct sun (as the summer), it was 50C.
    Usually, solar rise is 8>12C from my understanding. 22C seems very extreme. But it was VERY hot!

    Where's Greta when I need her?

    And as for Buffet...regarding the film Pete posted about, Buffet is into the whole renewables *thing* big style. Afterall, it's fully sponsored by gubmint handouts.
    He'll be getting out of aerospace now, and then he'll be buying back into it again in the future at a nice low price - no doubt.
    Like it or not, the renewables *climate change fear* will be ramping RIGHT up as soon as our latest (virus) news headline has died away.
    But for the future, planes aren't flying on batteries.
    No they're not.
    Obviously we're still in the UK but we're in regular contact with our Spanish friends. One of them was complaining about the heat the other day.

    I can't see us flying out this year to be honest. Maybe it's time to sell up ?

    Regards Tyrone.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tyrone Shoelaces View Post
    Obviously we're still in the UK but we're in regular contact with our Spanish friends. One of them was complaining about the heat the other day.

    I can't see us flying out this year to be honest. Maybe it's time to sell up ?

    Regards Tyrone.
    Flights are currently confusing...
    Whizz air are supposedly allowing booking from this week and Ryanair want to crack on.
    BA have been running 3x flights a week from UK to Gibraltar continuous.
    And if you have a private jet, you can come and go whenever you want (looking at the amount of flights of the things).
    But I read that the Valencian gov were keeping hotels shut until March next year.
    That could all be hype and BS of course, and subject to change at the drop of a hat.
    I'm sure by the end of the year flights will be allowed again.
    Not sure when though

    As for selling...I must admit the way things have gone here with the authoritarian BS has left a very bad taste in my mouth...

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    Quote Originally Posted by barbter View Post
    As for selling...I must admit the way things have gone here with the authoritarian BS has left a very bad taste in my mouth...
    Probably better than a lack of air in the lungs...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mark Rand View Post
    Probably better than a lack of air in the lungs...
    Mark, by all means believe the made up numbers and the lies.
    There's 0 cases here. And I'm not allowed to step foot out of my gate.
    HUGE fines and drones keep me where I am.

    Now don't get me wrong. There is a nasty strain of something.
    But it's not here. And I'm not even allowed to walk to the shop.

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    Quote Originally Posted by barbter View Post
    Mark, by all means believe the made up numbers and the lies.
    There's 0 cases here. And I'm not allowed to step foot out of my gate.
    HUGE fines and drones keep me where I am.

    Now don't get me wrong. There is a nasty strain of something.
    But it's not here. And I'm not even allowed to walk to the shop.
    Not saying I agree with any particular restrictions

    But why do you suppose there is no virus where you are?

    Just luck? Clean living?

    Or the prevention of spread?

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    Quote Originally Posted by barbter View Post
    Pete,
    Ref the whole solar *thing*.
    I'm sure it was just dumbed down to the basics which is oil/gas manufactures the solar, and you still need oil/gas as a 100% back-up for when the wind stops blowing or it's cloudy.

    .
    This is a lie

    What you need is storage

    While I am glad you envision a world of 100 percent renewables, cutting the current consumption of fossil fuels will do nicely, thank you very much

    We are already over 15 percent renewables in the northeast US

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    Quote Originally Posted by Demon73 View Post
    Doesnt work like that in the UK at the very least. Banks are the primary creators of the broadmoney, straight from the BOE.
    Oh yes it does.

    I say "The really important part though is to realize the Banks do not increase the money supply, the Fed does

    .....and you say its not like that in they UK, yet you paste a doc with a highlight point, that plainly confirms what I said! "The amount of money ultimately created in an economy depends on the monetary policy of the central bank"

    Don't get sucked into being manipulated by cranks. Its like arguing the car dealer sells corvettes not GM, .....so? GM determines how many Corvettes are out there, how many get sold. The only part that matters, and what I said, is the central bank controls the expansion of the money supply.

    I'm surprised you wouldn't know this stuff cold given your criticism of if and the promotion of "alternative" approaches to monetary policy. How can you be so sure its messed up when you don't understand it?

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    Quote Originally Posted by barbter View Post
    From what I remember, my take was it was more accurate than not.
    Unfortunately
    What are you going, conduct your own research project on everything he says? If you can stand to look at him, it can be entertaining.....buts that's what his movies are: entertainment.

    Sanctimonious & self righteousness is maybe bearable, but it feels really greasy and sleazy when done just to sell your agenda or movie

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mcgyver View Post
    What are you going, conduct your own research project on everything he says? If you can stand to look at him, it can be entertaining.....buts that's what his movies are: entertainment.

    Sanctimonious & self righteousness is maybe bearable, but it feels really greasy and sleazy when done just to sell your agenda or movie
    I take it you've not seen the film then?
    Unless I fell asleep, he's not in it.
    YouTube


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