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  1. #821
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    Yep, it was a bit cluttered. But it does show how easy it is for mis-information to be packaged in a cute way which might make it more believable to the un-informed.

    The LLNL energy flow chart is something I have been looking at for years. I did talk to one of the scientist who works on the data for the chart and asked if the electric line to transportation includes all the electric trains in the US and it does.

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    Quote Originally Posted by CarbideBob View Post
    Very weird emails and just so wrong and I got how you thought so.
    How did you get them? I don't think the mentioned Eric is playing with a full deck as my test drive of Volts are not even in his world.
    But it must be true because it's on the internet.....
    Tall tails on both sides of this which makes it hard to sort out any real facts.
    One wants to hear from owners of a Leaf or such that don't bias their real world experience but just say this is what I have, this is what it does, and I like or do not like it this part.
    If it is all good or all bad I wonder or stop reading as everything in life has some warts.
    Bob
    The volts center console sucks. You have to threaten xm with court to get it from spamming your radio. You lose battery range drastically with heat on (in ice engine this is just waste, makes you grasp the inefficiencies). If you add a deer horn to the inside of side mirrors the baffling stops if you like to drive with windows down, if you do not add a widget to inside of mirror it is percussion level. I do not look at how long it takes to charge, level one, 110 outlet, plug in when I get to work. gen 1 and last night my battery range estimate was 47 miles when I left work. Sometimes Mondays on the way in I use 2 miles of gas. It has no acceleration after 50 mph, it goes-just not an 2 lane passing machine. It is ninja, and is twichy at first at slow speeds (parking lots) and takes a little getting used to. Switching in/out of reverse you loose the little bump from normal transmissions. You can run an invertor big enough to power a miller multimatic outta the hatch. The front air dam is rubber, which is nice being it is about three microns off the ground. No sunroof options <-biggest negative for me.

    I love it, warts and all. The silence driving along the river at night, the amount of wildlife you see is dangerous and cool (quiet drive).

    I do not know the new leaf, the first gen was dismal failure twice for a friend of mine. The battery lack of cooling and southern summer made it have no range, like in the 70's.

    One of the day shifters at work wants the v8 tesla - um, sad part that is what car lot told him it was.

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    I say roll on noiseless cars........and crush all the loud modified junkers the young hooligans drive around quiet areas at 2 am....Crush the young hooligans too,if its at all possible.

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    a top California environmental regulator threatened to enact tougher pollution rules that could include a ban on vehicles that burn petroleum-based fuels.

    Next a walk only law..if it is too far to walk you should move.

    JPS (just plain stupid) W here do these dopes come from.. the high school debate team?

    Still I'm all for EVs ..People who want them should buy them with their own money, not mine.

  5. Likes tdmidget liked this post
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    Quote Originally Posted by john.k View Post
    I say roll on noiseless cars........and crush all the loud modified junkers the young hooligans drive around quiet areas at 2 am....Crush the young hooligans too,if its at all possible.
    ...and if you work the off shift ?

    Screw the off shift workers, tuners & thumpers allowed in the day time ?

    It's a form of pollution (noise) and you don't see industry getting away
    with noise at any time day/night.

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    DD......daytime we have Jake brake noise,loud as a machinegun, nightime ,car hooligans......and one percenters on Harleys at any time......the cops are too busy fighting crime......so they say......100% electric cant come soon enough.....Harley are bringing out an electric ,wonder if it will sell.......it will if IC is banned.

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    Can we ban yard work before 2 on weekends?
    sincerely,
    the off shift worker

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    Seems like comrade elon is back to burring up the SEC.....I reckon they will get mad ,and then get even too.

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    Quote Originally Posted by john.k View Post
    I say roll on noiseless cars........and crush all the loud modified junkers the young hooligans drive around quiet areas at 2 am....Crush the young hooligans too,if its at all possible.
    Like we call Mrs Dig to dig a hole I think we need to have Grobberment people on staff to call and ask for permission to do anything not listed on the grobberment List of thing allowed to do.

    Now these days that one is no longer allowed to smack the guy who needs a good smack we need somebody to watch or back..That is what the Grobberment likes to do,

    but wait some think freedom is do anything you want to do...that throws a monkey wrench into any plan..what a mess.

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    QT news article [For instance, Exelon promised to close its Quad Cities and Clinton nuclear facilities in Illinois without financial assistance.]

    What? More tax payer money out the secret window. Users should pay for what they use..That seems so simple.
    Who gets the beak with this? perhaps business owners who are on commercial rates now?

    Michigan found that much of the gas tax was just going to the general fund, so knocked down gas tax hikes..
    Then elected a person who ran on "Fix the dam roads"
    And the gas tax shot up $ Rising price of fuel in Michigan makes gas tax hike a tough sell

    likely some USA do-gooders wish to make gas $10 a gallon to force people to buy EVs.

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    Ford announces they are clearing the decks of old technology to go for an EV and driverless future......hope it doesnt end up a sales flop future.

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    Save the Trees but ruin the ocean

    Fukushima nuclear water thought to be too dangerous for the Pacific Ocean now is taking up so much space and growing by 100 tons every day. Now with no place to put it they are thinking to begin dumping it into the e ocean. Yes, the dangerous water amount is still growing by about 100 tons a day. That is about 34.000 gallons. Before they built the ice wall it was 170,000 gallons a day.

    Perhaps we are not yet smart enough to build so many Nuclear power plants. Germany has cut way back on such power plants.

    Fukushima water - Yahoo Image Search Results


    How Radioactive is Our Ocean?

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    Default Tesla and EV cars - update and thoughts



    A little chart to ponder.

    This is coal used to generate electricity.

    The United States isn’t the problem, and even if we eliminated coal used to produce electricity 100%, it would barley dent the global warming issue.

    And nuclear is great, but when it goes wrong, it goes wrong in a big way.

    That leaves natural gas for base-load power. The US has a lot of it, but just like oil when it starts to dwindle, prices will go out of control.

    Wind, solar, and hydro will never work for base-load power....without some type of space-age battery storage.

    So, what do we do? Turn the lights out, turn the AC off, let the electric cars set uncharged??

  15. #834
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    Quote Originally Posted by cnctoolcat View Post


    A little chart to ponder.

    This is coal used to generate electricity.

    The United States isn’t the problem, and even if we eliminated coal used to produce electricity 100%, it would barley dent the global warming issue.

    And nuclear is great, but when it goes wrong, it goes wrong in a big way.

    That leaves natural gas for base-load power. The US has a lot of it, but just like oil when it starts to dwindle, prices will go out of control.

    Wind, solar, and hydro will never work for base-load power....without some type of space-age battery storage.

    So, what do we do? Turn the lights out, turn the AC off, let the electric cars set uncharged??
    We really do need to be utilizing some the newer fission reactor technologies. There are a variety of designs that are much safer and cheaper than the current reactor design.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ziggy2 View Post
    We really do need to be utilizing some the newer fission reactor technologies. There are a variety of designs that are much safer and cheaper than the current reactor design.
    Safer? Really? How do you know? They haven't been built yet so just how do you know? Will they be economically feasible? If it takes 250 security people to guard a 2200MW plant how many will it take for a 200 MW plant? Probably 250. Chernobyl and Fukashima were not nuclear failures. They were people failures. At Chernobyl 2 crews had refused to even consider the ridiculous idea being proposed. Then the hero crew tried it. At Fukashima a culture of "we can't be wrong and it is a dishonor to ask for help" let 3 in a row go to shit for lack of a 10 hp water pump.
    As for the "radioactive water" it has minute quantities of tritium, a naturally occurring Hydrogen isotope that will degrade rapidly and they are allowing it to bring to clean up to a standstill.
    S

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    The radioactive material that worries people is cesium 137 with half life of ~30 years.

    Tom

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    Quote Originally Posted by tdmidget View Post
    Safer? Really? How do you know? They haven't been built yet so just how do you know? Will they be economically feasible? If it takes 250 security people to guard a 2200MW plant how many will it take for a 200 MW plant? Probably 250. Chernobyl and Fukashima were not nuclear failures. They were people failures. At Chernobyl 2 crews had refused to even consider the ridiculous idea being proposed. Then the hero crew tried it. At Fukashima a culture of "we can't be wrong and it is a dishonor to ask for help" let 3 in a row go to shit for lack of a 10 hp water pump.
    As for the "radioactive water" it has minute quantities of tritium, a naturally occurring Hydrogen isotope that will degrade rapidly and they are allowing it to bring to clean up to a standstill.
    S
    The biggest safety risk of current technology reactors is the loss or inability to maintain cooling water in the reactor vessel. Chernobyl, Fukushima, and even Three Mile Island all suffered from loss of cooling water.

    Most of the new reactor designs actually stop the fission reaction when core cooling stops. This in it self would eliminate the core meltdown accidents that have occurred. That is huge segment of the possible failure modes with the current technology.

    There is also the issue of the nuclear waste which some of these deigns almost totally eliminate and several configurations that can utilize the existing stock pile of used fuel rods and other nuclear waste as fuel.

    As far as security, some of these designs would allow for complete burial of the core and encasement in a concrete enclosure, eliminating most of the security risks.

    Just because we have done something in the past does not mean we cannot solve the past problems and improve the technology.

    The underlying issue that you alluded to of financial feasibility is that the current hydrocarbon based fuel sources are below the cost of nuclear power generation. If we continue to use hydrocarbon based power generation, then this is a moot point as it will not be feasible and that is what the driving push behind BEVs is, eliminate the need for the hydrocarbon fuel source.

  19. #838
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    If you guys haven’t seen it the HBO series on Chernobyl is worth watching.
    If the story line can be believed the reactor came very close to being a far larger problem.
    As it stands 1000 square miles are abandoned.

    Chernobyl Exclusion Zone - Wikipedia

    There is some speculation that a global spike in cancer rates can be attributed to the disaster.
    The clean up was remarkable in its scale and human cost.

    Chernobyl liquidators - Wikipedia

    That cleanup is still being played out today with the recent installation of the new confinement building:

    Chernobyl New Safe Confinement - Wikipedia

    I remember when the accident occurred but had no idea at that time of how serious the effects were.
    I only remember the political aspect as the European nations were not warned in a timely fashion.

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    Quote Originally Posted by michiganbuck View Post
    Save the Trees but ruin the ocean

    Fukushima nuclear water thought to be too dangerous for the Pacific Ocean now is taking up so much space and growing by 100 tons every day. Now with no place to put it they are thinking to begin dumping it into the e ocean. Yes, the dangerous water amount is still growing by about 100 tons a day. That is about 34.000 gallons. Before they built the ice wall it was 170,000 gallons a day.

    Perhaps we are not yet smart enough to build so many Nuclear power plants. Germany has cut way back on such power plants.

    Fukushima water - Yahoo Image Search Results


    How Radioactive is Our Ocean?
    Your last go at posting some of this - Fukushima Radiation Has Contaminated The Entire Pacific Ocean (And It's Going To Get Worse) | Zero Hedge - which actually totally misrepresented radiation spread and was apparently written by someone from Fight Club , might make you think twice when evaluating some of this stuff.

    I'd probably be more worried with your other nearby pond. Coastal Sellafield and the high grade waste there would make a right mess if the massively expensive decommissioning, over the next several decades, went awry.

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    I’m still musing on the Chernobyl disaster this morning.

    Some interesting facts have arisen:

    One- broad areas effected by the fallout were(are) a dietary iodine deficiency belt.

    (This issue of dietary iodine deficiency being a worthwhile read in itself if one hasn’t learned of it prior....)

    History of U.S. Iodine Fortification and Supplementation


    Two- radioactive iodine in the fallout was metabolized to a far greater extent in this region due to this deficiency (particularly among children).

    Three- the state Denial/coverup of the disaster caused populations to remain directly exposed to that fallout far longer than necessary.

    Four- Gorbachev has stated that the real cause of the Soviet Union collapse was perhaps attributable to the Chernobyl disaster.

    Five- historians cite a broad failure in confidence of the state from its actions during the disaster as contributing to that collapse as illustrated in the rise of Green Party anti soviet blocks.

    I tie it together- it is being reported (by reliable source), that a current rise in Green Party blocks are now occurring throughout Europe due to perceived inaction on the Climate Change issue.

    One wonders....,
    or at least there are avenues of investigation open which shed light on the Chernobyl event and its aftermath which are not confined to health issues.
    Those observations might help to frame the social consequences of current environmental issues?
    One wonders.


    And a closing note of humor.
    A young friend had to explain what EDC stands for in the tactical community.

    So this morning I am shopping for some potassium iodide tablets to toss in my EDC bag.
    Can’t be too prepared eh...

    Really-
    Just kidding..
    The facts....:

    CDC Radiation Emergencies | Facts About Potassium Iodide (KI)


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