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  1. #921
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    Quote Originally Posted by TeachMePlease View Post
    You made me curious, so I did the math...

    .
    Depends on how much you drive.
    Using your math I spend about $4800 a year on fuel and there is no way I'm considering a electric car at this point.
    Will we have "gas" stations with quick change electric packs? I think that is where we end up.
    Long life of the battery or replacement cost goes away.
    Will there be a Betamax vs VHS deal?
    The average person now will tolerate 5-10 minutes to refuel. Charging stations can not do this.
    Maybe charging batteries on phones and such will change the way we think but so much over the road transportation is dollars per minute and any downtime is money lost.
    We are in the infant days, so much to shake out.
    Bob

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    Quote Originally Posted by CarbideBob View Post
    Depends on how much you drive.
    Using your math I spend about $4800 a year on fuel and there is no way I'm considering a electric car at this point.
    Will we have "gas" stations with quick change electric packs? I think that is where we end up.
    Long life of the battery or replacement cost goes away.
    Will there be a Betamax vs VHS deal?
    The average person now will tolerate 5-10 minutes to refuel. Charging stations can not do this.
    Maybe charging batteries on phones and such will change the way we think but so much over the road transportation is dollars per minute and any downtime is money lost.
    We are in the infant days, so much to shake out.
    Bob
    I spend about 2k a year on fuel, per business records

    Please show me the data confirming that the average person will tolerate 10 minutes

    and, oh, by that metric, electric cars are already way, way ahead

    How?

    How about zero minutes charging time

    Plugged in at work or home takes seconds, I would probably hit an actual charging station a few times a year.

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    Obviously you should drive little things for commuting but some little cars are not great on fuel. A Cobra is an example.
    But in my world people buy big ass trucks so the they can tow the toys on a occasional weekend despite the cost everyday.
    That may seem dumb but cheaper that owning two (insurance also counts in this equation of ownership).
    A 5000 or 14,000 pound behind you. Low end my camper top end my boat went past that so energy need. No way these things are safe pulling a 42 foot offshore.
    When do we get the ability to long haul with electric?
    Yes I know the few that can and the projects in the works
    How much fuel is the post service, UPS and Fed-ex which are short runs. Why have they not yet bought in full scale?
    One has to love electrics for the power curve but how to you get this energy back into the system in reasonable amount of time.
    How does this become clean with long haul trucking. Parked time is not good.
    The automakers everyone loves to hate are working on this.
    Perhaps they are not so stupid.
    Bob

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    Default Tesla and EV cars - update and thoughts

    If the millions of Americans on the interstates every day would just drive the speed limits, more fuel (energy) would be saved than we will ever get back with token implementation of electric vehicles.

    Americans are so two-faced...we scream and shout about global warming, and the urgent need to do something about it, then we get in our gas-guzzler SUV’s and pickups and whiz down the interstates at 80+mph...

    And we live in our 3000+ square-foot houses, with the AC cranked down to 70 while it’s 90 outside...

    Give me a break...

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  6. #925
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    Quote Originally Posted by CarbideBob View Post
    One has to love electrics for the power curve but how to you get this energy back into the system in reasonable amount of time.
    How does this become clean with long haul trucking. Parked time is not good.
    This. I just drove some 2000+ kilometers. Stop, feed the beast with diesel, keep going. Recharge time on a BEV wouldn't have been acceptable, would have tripled/quadrupled the time most likely.

    I'd buy one as a daily driver/shopping trolley if it was cheap enough though. Cheap enough including registration & insurance costs.

    PDW

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    QT:Americans are so two-faced...we scream and shout about global warming, and the urgent need to do something about it, then we get in our gas-guzzler SUV’s and pickups and whiz down the interstates at 80+mph...

    I don't scream about it ..I think the USA is doing darn good on that.

    REF: Air Pollution in World: Real-time Air Quality Index Visual Map

    Likely true: If the millions of Americans on the interstates every day would just drive the speed limits, more fuel (energy) would be saved than we will ever get back with token implementation of electric vehicles.

    When we too much energy we will leave all the light on all night just For the heck of it and still build more energy plants (JPS) Just plain stupid..

    Or plant so much solar we have no room to grow corn, rice ans beans..

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    Quote Originally Posted by cnctoolcat View Post
    If the millions of Americans on the interstates every day would just drive the speed limits . ..
    I gave that a "like" because there's some truth to it.

    That said, it's a different situation in cities. When cars are crawling around in bumper to bumper traffic in rush hour, electric vehicles and/or mass transit or just tele-commuting start making sense.

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    Long haul electric trucking is already in day to day operation in EU and Russia....a simple system,which is not new....I went to school in the 50s in electric busses...trolley busses......electric power from overhead wires.....and they had far superior acceleration and hill climbing to a diesel bus of the era.They were exterminated here when a crooked lord mayor set fire to the tram depot ,and burned up all the electric trams and busses.

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    Coolcat...
    “If the millions of Americans on the interstates every day would just drive the speed limits, more fuel (energy) would be saved than we will ever get back with token implementation of electric vehicles”


    Quote Originally Posted by PeteM View Post
    I gave that a "like" because there's some truth to it.

    That said, it's a different situation in cities. When cars are crawling around in bumper to bumper traffic in rush hour, electric vehicles and/or mass transit or just tele-commuting start making sense.
    London introducing 20mph speed limit to reduce road deaths, Discussions are beginning on where to further reduce speed limits to make it more safe for pedestrians and cyclists.

    A number of studies have been conducted into the effects that 20mph limits have on air pollution. Overall, a smoothing of driving style and cutting out of the acceleration phase from 20mph to 30mph is considered to be beneficial for emissions of harmful pollutants.14 May 2018

    London 20mph speed limit consultation starts. A consultation on imposing a 20mph speed limit on all central London roads managed by Transport for London (TfL) has been launched. The scheme would see a new limit along 5.5 miles (8.9 km) of roads including Millbank, Albert Embankment, and Borough High Street by May 2020.

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    Quote Originally Posted by john.k View Post
    Long haul electric trucking is already in day to day operation in EU and Russia....a simple system,which is not new....I went to school in the 50s in electric busses...trolley busses......electric power from overhead wires.....and they had far superior acceleration and hill climbing to a diesel bus of the era.They were exterminated here when a crooked lord mayor set fire to the tram depot ,and burned up all the electric trams and busses.
    Still have them in Melbourne, I was riding on them only a couple days ago. Great way to get around the central part of the city and inner suburbs, less so in the fr flung stretches. There autonomous vehicles start making more sense for mass transport.

    But most of us aren't giving up individual vehicles any time soon. I'm not, that's for sure.

    PDW

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    Holy cow, might as well start forcing everyone to drive a horse and buggy at that point.




    Quote Originally Posted by lionelt View Post

    London introducing 20mph speed limit to reduce road deaths, Discussions are beginning on where to further reduce speed limits to make it more safe for pedestrians and cyclists.

    A number of studies have been conducted into the effects that 20mph limits have on air pollution. Overall, a smoothing of driving style and cutting out of the acceleration phase from 20mph to 30mph is considered to be beneficial for emissions of harmful pollutants.14 May 2018

    London 20mph speed limit consultation starts. A consultation on imposing a 20mph speed limit on all central London roads managed by Transport for London (TfL) has been launched. The scheme would see a new limit along 5.5 miles (8.9 km) of roads including Millbank, Albert Embankment, and Borough High Street by May 2020.

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    Qt Gordon;
    Have just read that here (and probably nowhere else) the difference in cost per km for driving a car is almost the same as with gasoline, diesel and el.

    I think is close in most countries, but with smoke and mirrors few know the truth.

    It seems loading gas and diesel with the burden of high tax and then giving high incentives and advantages to EVs like discount purchase price, advantage parking, free electric at such places, advantage express lanes that in turn hinder other than electric may initiate EVs. Then some day when the truth falls on the market and the EV get taxed and required to pay the true cost it will be to late to make an honest decision.
    Gas and diesel pay road tax. Some goes into the general fund and lately it is burdened will a sin tax just because of the push for EVs.
    Honesty up front would be good but people are/seem like sheep led to slaughter as they/ many think are led to think something is free.
    Hydro electric is a low-cost method to produce electric power. Nuclear, wind and solar are high cost but much of the cost is hidden. Agree if we should ren out of fossil fuel we will have no choice.
    So to be honest in the USA people should be shown the cost of EVs with all incentives removed and with adding 3 cents per mile for road tax (this higher in many other countries).

    And as for the green planet China’s and India’s poor carbon emissions control are the bigger factor.

    National and State Gas Taxes (Fuel Taxes) in the United States - GasPriceWatch.com

    20mph speed limit law a good idea for all peasant travel, so forcing them to walk or ride manual power bicycles.

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    Quote Originally Posted by CarbideBob View Post
    ................
    Will we have "gas" stations with quick change electric packs? I think that is where we end up.

    ................
    That will work great for private fleets. Won't work for the public because just like everything else, a small percentage will screw it up for everybody and bring in old, near dead battery packs and swap them out for new ones.

    I was reading a story about how in Africa someone figured out a cheap alloy that has almost exactly the same density as gold. So they make a small ingot of this alloy and then surround it with real gold to make a "99% pure (or whatever) gold ingot.

    Steve

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    Quote Originally Posted by CarbideBob View Post
    ................
    Will we have "gas" stations with quick change electric packs? I think that is where we end up.

    So after paying 40 bucks for a 300 mile charge that takes a full hour the customer drives away with a $4,000 battery.

    How Long Does It Take to Charge an Electric Car? | Pod Point

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    Model Battery Pod Point
    Confidence Range* 3.7kW slow, 7kW fast, 22kW fast, 43-50kW rapid, 150kW rapid

    Nissan LEAF (2018) 40kWh 143 miles 11 hrs 6 hrs 6 hrs 1 hr Can't charge on this kind of charger

    Tesla Model S Long Range (2019) 100kWh 255 miles
    27 hrs 15 hrs 6 hrs 2 hrs 1 hr for 300 miles

    Mitsubishi Outlander PHEV (2018) 13.8kWh 24 miles
    4 hrs 4 hrs 4 hrs 40 mins Can't charge on this kind of charger

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    Quote Originally Posted by SteveF View Post
    That will work great for private fleets. Won't work for the public because just like everything else, a small percentage will screw it up for everybody and bring in old, near dead battery packs and swap them out for new ones.

    I was reading a story about how in Africa someone figured out a cheap alloy that has almost exactly the same density as gold. So they make a small ingot of this alloy and then surround it with real gold to make a "99% pure (or whatever) gold ingot.

    Steve
    And yet the value of gold has not been affected........


    corporations track which soda you buy, I think figuring out who is trying to game the battery system would be childs play

    10 years ago I would have said swapping batteries was a good plan, but the incremental gains in battery technology tell me that we will get faster charging before anyone could implement a battery swap system

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    Same problem with Michigan requiring the stopper valve on LP gas cans. The new valve cost was about 30 to 50 buck depending on where you got it.
    but the exchanged can was still $20 (just the price of the gas).. so the vendor/store was losing about 20 or 30 bucks on each one sold..

    Yes returning the old valve can and taking a new valve can.

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    Anyhoo,we dont need no ev s to be green here.....our good lady premier has hired eco warrior Al Gore for the week to back up her green credentials.....he has pocketed $320,000 in coal money ,and not had the bad manners to even mention the 35 million tons of coal exports ,coincidentally approved during the week.....the suspicious might even think Al was hiring out his charisma for money.


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