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  1. #1201
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    I understand the Tesla chargers read the cars VIN number as soon as the plug is inserted. Some folks paid extra for unlimited free charging when they bought the car. Others get a bill for each charge. I would think the bill is related to how long or how many amps you pour into the car. Or it could be a flat rate so much per charge regardless of time/amount If you do not have a registered vin number the charger does not turn on.
    No reason there could not be some standard bluetooth or key chain dongle for other types of chargers. Laundromats figured it out decades ago.
    There is not yet any real standard for chargers as too volts or amps. Even ac or dc is an option.
    I understand the Tessa super charger is like 400 amps dc and it bypasses all the onboard safety stuff like fuses or breakers. So if there a bad connection the car can burn up. A 400 amp welder is only 30-50 volts not the over 100 volt Tesla uses to charge.
    Bil lD
    Bill D

  2. #1202
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    I would expect more sophistication than that......a paypal like system straight into your bank account.In the world of today ,nothing is free.....unless you are a politician,or a down and out on welfare,and politicians are keen to buy your vote.

  3. #1203
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    Quote Originally Posted by gustafson View Post
    YOu made up a problem with supply WRT EV's

    something that does not exist

    except in your head
    I have made nothing up,I have only passed on what the electric generating companies have said.
    Even more info for you,the companies that maintain the charging points do not work after 5pm so if one goes down overnight then you have to find another. Just hope that it has your socket on it.
    Now let's get down to the nitty gritty. Where do you get your mis-information from? Are you a regular visitor to the UK? Do you bring your Tesla with you?
    I have asked one other PM member and he has no idea where his nearest charging point is.
    So you see,it may not be my head hat has a problem,it could well be yours.

  4. #1204
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    Public chargers come in three flavors.

    Free
    Heavily subsidized
    For profit

    The first 2 are good will or business draw intent, and are nearly always installed at existing parking locations. They are commonly found in municipal lots, supermarkets, restaurants, and hotels.

    There is nothing really free about free charging. The owner of the parking space must pay for not only the electricity but also the monthly fee for the unit. Most of them are networked and there are various methods to "unlock" them. If it's free the owner either leaves it unlocked for general use or provides it to the customer on request.

    The charge for pay ones generally require an account linked to a bank account. You start with a small deposit, similar to Easypass and paid parking apps. The phone app can find locations near your current location and when you hook up you press the right buttons on your phone and it begins charging. Some businesses subsidize the overhead costs and only charge for all or part of the electricity. Others charge something reflecting the full rate whiles some also add on a profit margin.

    The idea that every gas station will install chargers is ridiculous and those suggesting it obviously don't know any station owners. I know several and the business model is based on volume. A stream of paying customers drive in, gas up and leave. Independent operators only make a few cents per gallon so without the volume they couldn't even pay their overhead. Most also sell convenience store type goods and many do repairs on site so parking spaces are for paying customers. EV owners tend toward frugality so I doubt a typical gas station could charge what they need to in order to make a profit and still have enough volume of EV customers to justify it. Working on an EV or the electrics of a hybrid requires special training and certification for mechanics so most shops don't bother, leaving that part of service to EV dealers.

    I am appalled at the lack of actual EV knowledge among some of the most avid enthusiasts posting here. The information is readily available if they took the time to find it but they would need to spend significant time in educating themselves.

    Published maximum ranges are under nominal conditions and can be significantly reduced by weather, hills, and even traffic conditions. An EV sitting in bumper to bumper traffic on a cold dark night is still using energy for headlights, wipers etc. and while they use far less than the drive circuits they still drain the battery over time.

    Away from home charging is far from as easy as many seem to think. Most free outlets are in heavy use and the non-free ones are often somewhat off the beaten path, requiring more time and more miles driven, which somewhat cancels out the environmental advantages of an EV if it happens too often. The situation will improve over time but as more people buy EVs there will be more competition for charging resources that usually lag behind EV sales.

  5. #1205
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    Question: Is any maker of EVs except the ultra expensive exotics earning a profit on them?

    Apparently pretty much all the major automakers just about give them away to satisfy government mandates and Tesla's 2018 Q3 "profit" doesn't look so good compared to the balance sheet as a whole.

    Tesla Reports a Rare Quarterly Profit, Its Biggest Ever - The New York Times

    "Tesla reported a $312 million profit for the three months that ended Sept. 30, thanks to a surge in production and sales of its Model 3 sedan."

    But .....

    "As of Sept. 30, Tesla owed its suppliers $3.6 billion, up from $3 billion at the end of the second quarter. The company’s debt totaled more than $10 billion."

    So they declare a profit of $312 million while their debt goes up $600 million in the same quarter? Sounds like creative accounting to me. Here is how analysts view their balance sheets. The decline is slowing but will it ever turn positive and with sustained growth?

    Tesla Net Income 2009-2019 | TSLA | MacroTrends

    So my basic thought is "how successful will EVs be if buyers have to pay the full costs, including profit margins, without subsidies, special breaks, and free or subsidized charging?

    For many brands the federal tax credits are already being phased out.

    U.S. Federal EV Tax Credit Update For January 2019

  6. #1206
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    Do not know if it still applies but the big Tesla had a special tax break because of it high weight it got a tax break as truck for your business. I think it had to be over 5,000 pounds and you could write it off as a company truck not a car.
    Bill D.

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    So Where does this have anything to do with the California outages?
    I used a wooden spoon to type this,I know all about conductivity and shit stirring.

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    Quote Originally Posted by camscan View Post
    So Where does this have anything to do with the California outages?
    I used a wooden spoon to type this,I know all about conductivity and shit stirring.
    Assuming you haven't just accidentally posted in the wrong thread the short answer is that currently over one half million California customers are without power and have no way to charge an EV. Since a huge region is affected most of them can't just drive to a nearby public charging station.

    ca_power_out.jpg

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    Quote Originally Posted by Scottl View Post
    Assuming you haven't just accidentally posted in the wrong thread the short answer is that currently over one half million California customers are without power and have no way to charge an EV. Since a huge region is affected most of them can't just drive to a nearby public charging station.

    ca_power_out.jpg
    So you got a blackout because too many people plugged in their EV cars and a big fuse has blown?

  11. #1210
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    Quote Originally Posted by camscan View Post
    So Where does this have anything to do with the California outages?
    I used a wooden spoon to type this,I know all about conductivity and shit stirring.
    I bet you've won a lot of wooden spoons...

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  13. #1211
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    Whats wrong with your solar panels and battery?.....sunny California and all that.

  14. #1212
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    Scottl --
    The car market and worlds energy consumptions are global, as You well know.
    -
    Most-Every single mall, shopping center, supermarket, office, already has 3-phase power already connected with high capacity.
    2Mwh plus sustained capacity.

    It costs carrefour, corte-ingles, aldi, lidl, about 2 guys/2days to hook up 16 spots at 380 V / 100 kW (peak, not sustainable), plus 2000€ in some tar/brickwork for the 4 perforations needed.
    And about 3000€ in kit overall for 16 spots with individual meters and wifi and shunts and load metering.
    For less than 8000€ total burdened, permitted, constructor costs, 16 new parking spots start to produce about 2-600€ more per month in net sales each, 3200€ - 9600€/month, extra.

    200€/mo theory (minimum) == 7€/day, per 11 hours operational, extra revenue.
    The reality is about 10x-20x or more higher by avg. income.
    THAT is why most-every single big mall, market, and parking place I know of, here in Barcelona, is racing to install more BEV parking, plugs, etc.
    And in a lot of locations in Finland.
    And, generally, mostly in the EU.

    --
    Apart from the US, almost-all of the EU and the other major OECD nations have existing ubiquituous 3-phase power connections at curb to every single house / apartment block built in the last 40 years, plus.
    --

    You think/state that EV chargers will lag, but in fact they will front, increasingly, the EV adoption globally.
    Already, high-capacity 220V/380V chargers are growing faster than EV cars, that are growing at about 100%-150% / 18 months.

    Currently, late 2019, BEVs are 4-5-6-7% of all new cars sold in markets suitable for them.
    In 2021 BEVs are likely to be about 10-14%, and the end-of-ice will have happened a year before, since markets are forward looking, and auto-loan valuations more so.



    Quote Originally Posted by Scottl View Post
    Public chargers come in three flavors.
    --
    ..
    Yes !

    Public chargers come in 3 flavors, for 3 reasons+.

    --
    Away from home charging is far from as easy as many seem to think.

    A: No.
    E.
    Most Tesla destination chargers are in places current Tesla owners like to visit.
    Almost-all are free to use almost-all the time.


    --

    Most free outlets are in heavy use
    A: No.
    Most free outlets are not in use, and there is almost never a line or queue.

    --
    and the non-free ones are often somewhat off the beaten path, requiring more time and more miles driven, which somewhat cancels out the environmental advantages of an EV if it happens too often.
    A: No.

    The situation will improve over time but as more people buy EVs there will be more competition for charging resources that usually lag behind EV sales.

  15. #1213
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    I think EV are fine for the guy/gay who can use one. most likely the second car with a long travel car for vacations and the like.

    I just think they should be paid for by the user not by Me and the taxes I pay..

  16. #1214
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    Quote Originally Posted by michiganbuck View Post
    I just think they should be paid for by the user not by Me and the taxes I pay..
    Join the club. I don't want to pay for the effing worthless army.

    It's not like we have a choice, young buck.

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  18. #1215
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scottl View Post
    Assuming you haven't just accidentally posted in the wrong thread the short answer is that currently over one half million California customers are without power and have no way to charge an EV. Since a huge region is affected most of them can't just drive to a nearby public charging station.

    ca_power_out.jpg
    Definitely in the right thread, perhaps you didn't understand. Perhaps post 1210 will help you see the light. That was intentional.

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    Tesla are offering car owners a charging point so the cars can be charged from an owners home solar array and battery........which of course every comitted Tesla owner has.......Interesting to note John Dysons comment about electric cars......he says at current prices no one can make a profit making EVs,so hes given up on the idea.And will stick to selling overpriced trendy nicknacks to yuppies .

  20. #1217
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    Frito Lay in Modesto, California is trying out 15 Tesla semi-trucks. I understand they have a 1-1.5 megawatt mega charger. Of course potato chips are probably one of the lightest loads a truck could carry. And it is dead flat around here. So the 500 mile range could be true.

  21. #1218
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    Tesla are having big problems with the battery at the moment. Five years old and they die.

  22. #1219
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    Quote Originally Posted by camscan View Post
    Tesla are having big problems with the battery at the moment. Five years old and they die.
    That's probably a result of owners habitually using too much of the range before charging, likely aggravated by repeat fast charging. Under those circumstances 5 years isn't that bad.

    It seems people still don't understand that EVs at the current state of battery technology require much different handling than the IC engined cars we're used to. The harder you work the battery the faster it degrades. Repeated aggressive acceleration plus pushing the range before charging will degrade batteries faster. If you want a battery pack to last, charge it every night and don't use too much of it before charging.


    However, that's not the only battery issue Tesla's face. On the Model S the outside door handles do not mechanically unlatch the door but instead send a signal to a controller that actuates a motor. In the event of a crash that disables the battery outside rescuers can't open the door, leading to tragedies such as this one.

    Another Auto-Immolation - EPautos - Libertarian Car Talk

    This video explains how the handles work.

    YouTube

    While a clever design that reduces drag and load on the battery, in some cases it can be a fatal flaw. Now I read recently that Elon Musk wants to eliminate outside rear view mirrors for the same reason. If this is allowed other car manufacturers may copy the idea to reduce drag and increase mpg. If the video setup fails these cars will be totally blind to the rear. Traditional mirrors have a long record of success and a great deal of redundancy which IMO is an important safety feature.

    Is increased fuel economy or battery range worth dying for?

  23. #1220
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    Quote Originally Posted by camscan View Post
    Tesla are having big problems with the battery at the moment. Five years old and they die.
    This blog post reports a ton of data on the Model S battery life which seems much better than you write. There were major improvements in the Model 3 battery so one would assume it to be the same or better.
    Tesla Model S battery degradation data | Steinbuch

    Sent from my XT1710-02 using Tapatalk


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