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  1. #81
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tony Quiring View Post
    Back in the day when ma bell did more work in business it was funny, really with the 5 button multi-line style where eash phone had a 25 pair cable.

    One guy placed the plywood on the wall.

    Another placed the 66 blocks.

    Next one pulled the cable then another made cross connects then last plugged in phones.

    We teased them about who holds the screw so someone else could turn the screwdriver, they said joe...

    Sent from my SM-G781V using Tapatalk
    In a big installation that probably kept things a lot more standard than having five different people doing it five different ways.

  2. #82
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    Our owner passed away Saturday.Going to miss him. I don't know if he was staunchly anti union as I have never heard him so. However he bought two plants that were union and they didn't work out.

    The first was near New Orleans. The employees went on strike demanding a 10% increase in wages and benefits.He told them the co was not making a profit but when it did he would talk about it. Their response was that his other plants were so they striked.

    My supervisor was wireing up a flexo machine when Paul walked by with two Brinks guards and asked him what he was doing.He told him to stop and go back to Jacksonville,he was going to close it down. Which he promptly did after he paid everyone off.

    The next one was in Stockton.The employees went on strike because they wanted him to promise to only promote from within the company.Which he did anyway as far as I can tell.The currant CEO started out on the floor as a helper in the cutting dept.

    Some of our guys were there removing equipment and ran into some strikers at a local bar.They said that the old man was just bluffing when they saw the Hidelburg press being moved out! It probably cost $100g to move and set it up. We are using it as a warehouse now.

    We had one operator who spent more time talking about how great the union was where he used to work than doing his job. When we moved to our new plant he tried to start up a union. They allowed him and the union reps to have a meeting in the break room.After passing out fliers when the meeting occurred only him and the reps were there.

    Since I have never worked in a union, it wouldn't be a determining factor if I was looking for a job.
    A friend of mine was head of the local Ironworkers union.They were kind of a rowdy bunch. The construction industry depends on the unions but factory workers are different. The non union plants have to pay competitive wages to get help around here so adding a union in the mix wouldn't help.Supply and demand at work.

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  4. #83
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    Quote Originally Posted by pavt View Post
    Since Roosevelt passed it in 1934, he even said so -- it should be a minimum acceptable standard of living available to all Americans. Nothing else you mentioned enters into the picture. Skills has zero to do with it, or anything else. A full-time job was supposed to support you and your family regardless. If you wanted to work minimum wage for whatever reason, you could -- and you could live on it. Even if you didn't want to work minimum wage, and were stuck doing it -- you could still live on it and pay the bills.
    ok, if someone can't survive, and its the will of society to help them, give them money. I have no problem with a society that helps its least fortunate. But don't do it through minimum wage. Wages are set by the market and no one with even a years worth of economics thinks price controls are anything but idiotic. All kinds of things go wrong when wages get set by interfering parties rather than the market. its not a mystery and its a bit daft to assume doing so is an effective or only way to help those who need help

    In fact I have zero problem with unions. the problem I have is unfair labour laws. If my team wanted to get together and withhold labour (they wouldn't as I pay the same or better than unions because I want the best workers) I'm ok with that, provided I have the right terminate all of them and hire afresh. I should be allowed to do so if they expect more than market. Its simple transaction, my money exchange for your labour.

    Of course the experience of the team means I would really not want to rehire so they've got me a bit, but it still needs that balance, that market dynamic (my ability to replace them all) to stop it all from going to shit and having everything moved offshore that can be moved offshore.

  5. #84
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    I agree, but only partially
    I do think owners/management should be able to can Union members, but not en masse. Only on an individual, case-by-case basis. For Cause. Because unfortunately, the Unions cover a LOT of slackers, etc. just as well as the "good guys".

    As for overall society, somehow the Euros seem to have it figured out with no ill effects. Leading to an overall higher quality of life for their people. And yet the US, the mightiest of all, just can't seem to do it.... go figure. Because the US is bought and paid for by their wealthiest and most corrupt...



    Quote Originally Posted by Mcgyver View Post
    ok, if someone can't survive, and its the will of society to help them, give them money. I have no problem with a society that helps its least fortunate. But don't do it through minimum wage. Wages are set by the market and no one with even a years worth of economics thinks price controls are anything but idiotic. All kinds of things go wrong when wages get set by interfering parties rather than the market. its not a mystery and its a bit daft to assume doing so is an effective or only way to help those who need help

    In fact I have zero problem with unions. the problem I have is unfair labour laws. If my team wanted to get together and withhold labour (they wouldn't as I pay the same or better than unions because I want the best workers) I'm ok with that, provided I have the right terminate all of them and hire afresh. I should be allowed to do so if they expect more than market. Its simple transaction, my money exchange for your labour.

    Of course the experience of the team means I would really not want to rehire so they've got me a bit, but it still needs that balance, that market dynamic (my ability to replace them all) to stop it all from going to shit and having everything moved offshore that can be moved offshore.

  6. #85
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    I've been working in HR since 2004 and I've witnessed a few people try to start a union with other employees because they were angry about a company policy change or something that they did not like stirred up the organizing, just to get managements attention, but I've never seen them get enough votes in my career. That was within the US Auto and Logistics industries.

    I do believe unions were very important back in the days before there were laws to protect employees. Now these laws hold companies accountable and HR is starting to be viewed more positively as a strategic partner to the corporation and an employee advocate internally so I don't think the need is there anymore. Also, with health insurance mostly paid for by the companies, I don't think there is much need for unions other than the big ones as mentioned previously. Just my opinion.

    With that said, I'm a Recruiter for Enpro Industries. If anyone is interested in a Machine Operator role please see our job openings page in the link below. I'm really needing a CNC Machinist to work the 2nd shift in the beautiful Daytona Beach, Fl area. if you're interested, please email me a copy of your resume or reach out anytime for any questions.

    Laura Crittenden
    [email protected]

    Enpro Industries - Careers

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    Hr has become the enemy of employees and the ally of the employer.

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    Quote Originally Posted by plastikdreams View Post
    Hr has become the enemy of employees and the ally of the employer.
    One wonders.

    In a UAW plant I hated writing people up. Was of the view that stern talking to would help. HR was this must be done and documented.
    Some just pushed the rules. I would end up walking someone out the door every month.
    One had to have a lot of written screw ups earlier for this to happen.
    Bob

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    How can a group of workers collectively bargain without a union?

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    Quote Originally Posted by jmead View Post
    How can a group of workers collectively bargain without a union?
    Well that is the literal definition of a union. Anyone can start a union as long as the people in the union show solidarity. That is the key. If people crack under the pressure then the union is useless.

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    Quote Originally Posted by plastikdreams View Post
    Hr has become the enemy of employees and the ally of the employer.
    HR has never been on the employees' side. HR exists to protect the company. Always has, always will.

    Not saying there aren't nice people in HR, and that they don't do good things for employees. But HR exists to keep employees from damaging the company.

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    The new frontier of workers getting screwed is casual labour hire run by specialists.....and the so called gig economy that the young have been fooled into believing gives them freedom ....or free-dumb as the PM crowd would have it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by pavt View Post
    I agree, but only partially
    I do think owners/management should be able to can Union members, but not en masse. Only on an individual, case-by-case basis. For Cause. Because unfortunately, the Unions cover a LOT of slackers, etc. just as well as the "good guys".

    As for overall society, somehow the Euros seem to have it figured out with no ill effects. Leading to an overall higher quality of life for their people. And yet the US, the mightiest of all, just can't seem to do it.... go figure. Because the US is bought and paid for by their wealthiest and most corrupt...
    Vote with your feet and move to Europe if you think it is better there. Why would you want to live here where the wealthiest have corrupted the system?? The richest men in America have done nothing to hurt me, they have only made my life better.

    Bill Gates, better computers. Jeff Bezos, low prices for stuff I want and that stuff is delivered right to my house very quickly., Elon Musk, cars that drive themself.Steven Jobs, great mobile phones, laptops, Ipads. John D. Rockefeller, a standard safe kerosene to light oil lamps for light in the home, then gasoline to fuel the new auto industry. Henry Ford, cars for the masses. Andrew Carnegie, king of the steel boom that made America great. George Washington and Thomas Jefferson, wealthy men who risked their lives and fortunes to free us from British oppression.

    Please do tell us all what wealthy man has done you wrong? What is his name and exactly what did he do to you?


    While you are at it, please name the poor man who ever hired you and gave you a paycheck, built a charity hospital, library, or art gallery.

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    HR is paid for by the boss/owner....so why would it be any kind of charity?......Back in my day ,HR was a model of Holden car ,and the pay office was called "the pay office".....they did all the personnel stuff,low key ,pink slips ,etc,wasnt needing some graduate to run it ......if one of the board members decided something extra may be needed ,then he stepped in with his legal expertise......this is why board members got big pay.....and did their jobs without million dollar bonuses.

  18. #94
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    In a union shop HR makes sure that you do not violate the agreements made.
    I went to this office often often with what to do, next stop the union office so they could have input.
    I know this sounds like playing both ends against the middle, that is a supervisors life.
    I have always thought that the biggest problem is this silly war between union and not.
    People walk into the room just so biased out of the gate.

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    I worked at a company North End of Portsmouth (England)

    First day there I was sat up in in HR going thru paperwork and getting my flextime key. Start time was anywhere from 7:30-9:00, If you keyed in later than 9:00 you'd get reported to HR and accumalate too many in a month you'd get written up, accumalate too many in a six month period you'd get fired.

    I was sitting there in HR a little before 9am, a secratary came in and said one of the managers was going to be late, so could HR key him in with the spare key they had for all employees, which they did.

    At one point during my time there one of the machinists was going to be late, so he called in asked a friend to get his key from his box and key him in before 9am. Well HR found out and were going to write up both the person who was late and his friend. I heard that the person who had keyed his friend in might get fired because of what he had done.

    So I went to the shop Foreman and told him that on xx/xx/1982 HR had clocked in a manager who was going to be late before 9am. Maybe the person from HR should get fired as well?

    Foreman told HR that if they had any notion to fire one of his guys, he was sure as s*** going to get somebody in HR fired as well, it was all quickly forgotten about.

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    I just love it when you run into ex-union guys in a shop. Can spot them a mile away. Companies just need to be reminded that the employees are an asset. Go ahead and piss them off and they walk you loose money.

    Believe it or not, the shitty shareholders may want to stop by more often.

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    Quote Originally Posted by triumph406 View Post
    ....
    Foreman told HR that if they had any notion to fire one of his guys, he was sure as s*** going to get somebody in HR fired as well, it was all quickly forgotten about.
    If true surely a sign of very bad management.
    Two people should have had their asses on the line. Two wrongs do not make it right.
    Came in as a supervisor three minutes late to the gate. Committeeman from my shift and the other out front.
    "Bob, look at the clock, that's a point".
    As salary one does not get points but they were very, very correct to say it to me and call me out. I did feel like shit and will never forget it.
    Bob

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    Without knowing all the details, generally office types are exempt from wage hours laws. They are subject only to the company policies. Hourly union people have contracts that spell out clock in and clock out rules.

    Tom

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    I always punch in at least a half hour early, when I do weekend ot I'm supposed to be there at least 4 hours, I make sure to do at a minimum of 5 hours. If my card doesn't read (thousands of swipes a day it's bound to make a mistake) I always say 0630 even if i know what time I got to the machine.

    I got fist fucked by the clock at the last job, I reported a time and was actually 13 minutes off...employee of the month the previous month, 2 special awards in 1 year, and all I got was fired...even had to call the cops to get my tools back. New hr lady trying to make a name I guess. Eh I'm in a better place now anyways.

    There have been times I couldn't remember if I was late or not and literally told my boss to check the camera lol

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    Quote Originally Posted by TDegenhart View Post
    Without knowing all the details, generally office types are exempt from wage hours laws. They are subject only to the company policies. Hourly union people have contracts that spell out clock in and clock out rules.
    Tom
    Yes in many cases wage hour laws do not apply so the boss can make any rules he/she likes.
    Seen a few salaried make the mistake of thinking they could get away with as many "lates" in a 6 or 12 month period as the union hourly.
    In the union one's points are posted on the team board every week so you know where you stand and the fixed rules.
    As salary or contract you had no idea how much trouble you may or may not be in.
    Similar deal for hourly in many non-union shops that so often do not have a fixed or stated policy. If the boss comes in from a morning argument with a spouse any late can get you out the door.
    Bob


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