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  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by D Nelson View Post
    Maybe so.
    1. But I wonder sometimes what the whole world would be like right now if it wasn’t for the US military.

    2.But I’m pretty sure Denmark would be screwed
    ad 1. Wonder all you want but you'll never know for sure.

    ad 2. By whom and how?

    Spend as much on your military as you want but stop ranting on about that it's for defense and saving the world. It's always been in the USA interest. Regard your allies as friends, not just pawns in your chess game.

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    I don’t necessarily mean just Denmark I mean every small nation would be consumed by now. Especially if they have any natural resources to take
    Don


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    Quote Originally Posted by D Nelson View Post
    Maybe so. But I wonder sometimes what the whole world would be like right now if it wasn’t for the US military.
    The US military has never done a fucking thing of value. WW II was civilians who signed up to defeat the bosch. It was not the military. Jimmy Stewart and George McGovern and Andy Rooney.

    All the military has ever done is fuck stuff up. They can't find their ass with both hands in a dark room, and they prove that all the time.

    But I’m pretty sure Denmark would be screwed
    Did you know that once upon a time the Danes were bad-ass mofos ? Ran most of the civilized world ? It's not smart to demean others on that score, cuz when it's your turn in the barrel it ain't so much fun.

    Hitler wouldn't have lasted twenty years anyhow. The Germs were bankrupt, that's why they had to invade yurop. The guy was a fruitcake, invading ain't at all the same thing as running a place. China has proven that many times. Invaders come in, screw up stuff for a while, get loose and drunk and screw with the native women and viola, back to the way it was before. A few new chromosomes in the population, good idea. US didn't save anybody from nuthin, we just took top spot in the henhouse pecking order for a while.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gordon B. Clarke View Post

    The point I was trying to make, and I write "trying" as it obviously isn't getting through to the very pro military lot, is why does the US need a military the size it has?
    because of all the little countries that can't defend themselves.

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    Quote Originally Posted by D Nelson View Post
    I don’t necessarily mean just Denmark I mean every small nation would be consumed by now. Especially if they have any natural resources to take
    Don
    Huh? I'd imagine those with natural resources to take would be more interesting than those that don't. Don't know if you know it but Denmark exports oil and gas. Only a fraction of what Norway does though

    Forget me and Denmark for a minute. How often do you read posts by non Americans thanking the USA for "saving" them from the wicked world? Your attitude could be regarded as arrogance and that's not exactly good. The USA needs allies as much as others do.

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    I think hitler was taking the country’s riches as he went. I have a friend from holland she was a young girl at the time hitler came thru Holland. she said they hid from them they were killing all the young men. She didn’t act like they were having much troubles killing anyone they pleased. I knew I shouldn’t of got involved in this discussion when I started.
    Don


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    Quote Originally Posted by Gordon B. Clarke View Post
    Huh? I'd imagine those with natural resources to take would be more interesting than those that don't. Don't know if you know it but Denmark exports oil and gas. Only a fraction of what Norway does though

    Forget me and Denmark for a minute. How often do you read posts by non Americans thanking the USA for "saving" them from the wicked world? Your attitude could be regarded as arrogance and that's not exactly good. The USA needs allies as much as others do.
    Does the US have any real allies? Vassals might be a better description.

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    Quote Originally Posted by D Nelson View Post
    I don’t necessarily mean just Denmark I mean every small nation would be consumed by now. Especially if they have any natural resources to take
    Don
    Qt: because of all the little countries that can't defend themselves.

    *So just staying alive is/was a very big challenge for many in a small country..

    Back to Op China is building up their military, Russia military is very strong, North Korea tagged with china could be a problem..yes i wish it was not all so.
    Guess one good reasons to spend money on wind power not war machines to create jobs. Yes only if everybody did that.

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    Relax Guys,

    Whether any of us agree with this or not, this is business. You have two choices; try to get a piece of that 25 billion or stand in the soup line complaining.

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    Quote Originally Posted by D Nelson View Post
    I think hitler was taking the country’s riches as he went.
    That's been going on forever. It's okay that the US came in and stopped the krauts but nothing to get all puffed up about. There have been wars for thousands of years, with winners and losers. Just about everyone has had a turn at being top dog. Doesn't make them heroes, just means they won a war.

    by the way ... "I think hitler was taking the country’s riches as he went."

    That's exactly what the US army was doing in the american west. Not so heroic then ... if you start thinking of the Indian tribes as "small countries" then you're going to have a problem with the 'we're so great' theorem

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    Google US foreign aid

    50 Billion in 2017
    over 55 billion in 2018.

    Myself,
    I vote for The U.S. using 2 billon.. for the U.S.

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    I guess some people see this as some kind of "buildup" or something. It doesn't even keep up with the retiring LA Class.

    The Navy requirement for SSN's is 66 boats. We built 62 LA Class, 30 of which are already retired.

    We have active, 17 Virginia Class and 32 LA Class. In 10 years, the remainder of the LA boats will be decommissioned. There are 11 Virginia Class under construction and 6 more on order, not counting this 9. This will leave us with 43 active SSN's at the end of the 2020's.

    That's well short of the 66 boat requirement- this order was supposed to be for 11 boats, but the yards can't keep up and deliveries are already delayed.

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    Militarily, the bomb made very little difference in the ultimate outcome of the war. Japan and Germany were all but defeated by the time it was used.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jancollc View Post
    That's well short of the 66 boat requirement- this order was supposed to be for 11 boats, but the yards can't keep up and deliveries are already delayed.
    Then maybe they shouldn't have shut down Mare Island, eh ?

    btw, 66 boats ? Has anyone told those morons that the Soviet Union dissolved quite a few years ago now ?

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    Militarily, the bomb made a huge difference in the peace that followed. Which is how I would judge the outcome of the war.

    Several major superpowers, all geared-up with huge militaries coming off the second world war, retreated home to their (reasonably) neutral corners to live-out the (relative) stability and economic expansion and prosperity of the Cold War.

    Consequence of nuclear conflict is horrifying. But thanks to the bomb and second-strike capacity we have MAD and deterrence as a critical and useful doctrine.

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    My uncle Jo was on the Ticonderoga when she was attacked on January 21 1945 by Kamikazes .. She was listing bad and would have sunk if not for the pumps and some good thinking. Uncle Jo's whole chest was one big burn scar, lucky he made it out alive.
    He was on the ship when that (second) photo was taken.
    USS Ticonderoga (CV-14) - Wikipedia

    Ticonderoga was decommissioned in 1973 and sold for scrap in 1975.

    USS Ticonderoga (CV-14) - Wikipedia

    Normandy was in June and the war ended in Augest.

    When and How Did World War II End?
    Hitler killed himself... I wonder..

    But:Adolf Hitler's 'last bodyguard' reveals what happened in Nazi leader’s final minutes in the Berlin bunker | The Independent

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  22. #37
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    The USA was a pacifist nation until December 7, 1941. Europe had already surrendered to Germany, and we were spending our energy keeping Great Britain from being consumed as well.

    We did not ask Japan to attack the USA. We own no apology to anyone for the way we responded.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gobo View Post
    Militarily, the bomb made very little difference in the ultimate outcome of the war. Japan and Germany were all but defeated by the time it was used.
    There was/is the question if Japan would have surrendered unconditionally and for that matter even if they would surrender at all.

    We need to keep some things in perspective. We had fought some for bloody battles taking Iwo Jima and Okinawa. The Japanese soldiers were not surrendering but rather fighting to the end. The Allied Forces were assuming that they would need to land on the Japanese mainland and fight accordingly.

    The estimated causalities for both sides were in the millions and could have very likely ended in a stalemate which is what some of the Japanese leadership were hoping for.

    The A-bomb was developed in relative secrecy. Strategically, you are correct that it had little effect however the physiological effect was enormous. When the Japanese leadership heard of the rumors of the devastation at Nagasaki and Hiroshima, it was not believed until reports from reconnaissance was verified.

    The A-bomb was a game changer for the Japanese in that they then realized at that point that a mainland war of attrition would no longer be possible. The Japanese also did not know that we only had two at the time and that at would be several months before more would be available.

    The problem with this type of discussion is that it is Monday morning quarter backing and becomes pure conjecture. It is very hard to put ourselves in the situation that both sides were in at the time when we know the details after the fact.

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  26. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by gbent View Post
    We did not ask Japan to attack the USA. We own no apology to anyone for the way we responded.
    Right. But that doesn't make us saviors of the world, either. We did what had to be done and the Japs were stupid for setting that off.

    Are the English saviors of the world forever because they put Napoleon to bed ?

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    Quote Originally Posted by gbent View Post
    The USA was a pacifist nation until December 7, 1941. Europe had already surrendered to Germany, and we were spending our energy keeping Great Britain from being consumed as well.

    We did not ask Japan to attack the USA. We own no apology to anyone for the way we responded.
    I would apologize to the the poor people who who were there at the site but it had to be done.

    Warning of the attack:
    America Warned Hiroshima and Nagasaki Citizens • Damn Interesting

    I have two friends who were in London during the German bombs and rockets.


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