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  1. #61
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    Ok- gotcha.

    I follow the China/Russia/DPRK dynamic a bit- seems we are headed towards irrelevance in that corner of the world.

    I am still plowing through this:

    The Grand Chessboard: American Primacy And Its Geostrategic Imperatives: Zbigniew Brzezinski: 9780465027262: Amazon.com: Books

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gordon B. Clarke View Post
    ... When I travel, and I probably do more than most, what I see is that in almost all countries is that the "man in the street" has more money now than he had one or two decades ago. I certainly don't think the USA is stagnant but is "the man in the street" much better off now than he was 20 years ago? ...
    The working class here is quite a bit worse off than 50 years ago. Costs rose, wages didn't.

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    Have you registered as a foreign agent yet?

    I’m only half kidding, as your efforts on behalf of China on the PM forums have been pretty blatant.

    You are constantly knocking the U.S. while praising all things China. Worse yet, you constantly denigrate U.S. attempts to modernize its military as China races to build a world-class military that can project force anywhere on the planet.

    Paranoia? Here’s what one of your commie leaders said:

    (China should) “use its strength to attack the enemy’s shortcomings. Attack wherever the enemy is afraid of being hit. Wherever the enemy is weak …”
    -Rear Admiral Lou Yuan

    He suggested sinking two U.S. aircraft carriers to “teach them a lesson” in addition to threatening to deploy troops to Taiwan if U.S. naval ships visited Taiwan.

    South China Sea: Chinese admiral wants to ‘sink two US aircraft carriers’

    Your efforts to suggest we not upgrade U.S. military assets remind me of the quote from famous Chinese military theoretician Sun Tzu:

    “Before you can defeat an enemy on the battlefield you must defeat him in his mind.”

    You will not defeat us in our minds, comrade “Goldstein”. We will keep doing what we must to counter Chinese efforts to dominate the world technologically and militarily. That includes exposing the role the enormous U.S. capital markets (roughly $35 trillion under management) play in financing this Chinese expansion and aggression.

    Quote Originally Posted by EmanuelGoldstein View Post
    Oh jesus. Save me from paranoid maniacs. Do you check under the bed for Commies every night, too ?

    Now North Korea I could see ... one good sub and ka-blam goes the fucking US Navy marauding off their shores. But it would be long-term stupid, which they, unlike the US, don't seem to be.

    66 boats, janc ? Dumb. Half that is more than enough, which is probably why they fly the 66 flag. Ask for twice as much as you expect to get ...

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  6. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by neilho View Post
    The working class here is quite a bit worse off than 50 years ago. Costs rose, wages didn't.
    And that decline started approximately 50 years ago when Richard Nixon was convinced to adopt Henry Kissinger's principles of Ostpolitik and began to engage with China, convinced that having economic and financial relations with us would change them. Instead, we were the ones who got changed, and not for the better.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Scottl View Post
    And that decline started approximately 50 years ago when Richard Nixon was convinced to adopt Henry Kissinger's principles of Ostpolitik and began to engage with China, convinced that having economic and financial relations with us would change them. Instead, we were the ones who got changed, and not for the better.
    I would agree that just about all our working people engaged in the manufacture of commodity products were displaced. It started with crap like molded rubber duckies, but gradually grew to encompass things like ball bearings and precision tools. But the commoditization of such an array of manufactured goods has mostly meant a newly inexpensive source for stuff that used to be prohibitively expensive, which for me has been, on the whole, a blessing. It would have happened anyway. If not China, then any of a number of emerging countries where somebody invested in cutting-edge manufacturing equipment for whatever they felt like making and selling.

    On that subject, one might say that Gene Haas effectively commoditized the machine tool industry in the US; I'm sure the boardroom at Mori Seiki thought so. I personally don't feel threatened by Chinese goods. If someday they are able to make what I make and offer competitive support, oh well—c'est la vie: if not them then somebody else will, someday. It doesn't exactly thrill me that they're a totalitarian state but that's their problem.

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  10. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oldwrench View Post
    I would agree that just about all our working people engaged in the manufacture of commodity products were displaced. It started with crap like molded rubber duckies, but gradually grew to encompass things like ball bearings and precision tools. But the commoditization of such an array of manufactured goods has mostly meant a newly inexpensive source for stuff that used to be prohibitively expensive, which for me has been, on the whole, a blessing. It would have happened anyway. If not China, then any of a number of emerging countries where somebody invested in cutting-edge manufacturing equipment for whatever they felt like making and selling.

    On that subject, one might say that Gene Haas effectively commoditized the machine tool industry in the US; I'm sure the boardroom at Mori Seiki thought so. I personally don't feel threatened by Chinese goods. If someday they are able to make what I make and offer competitive support, oh well—c'est la vie: if not them then somebody else will, someday. It doesn't exactly thrill me that they're a totalitarian state but that's their problem.
    It's also a problem for Hong Kong, Taiwan, Malaysia, the Philippines and Vietnam. Eventually it may be a problem for Japan and maybe even someday Australia.

    China has plans, BIG plans, and they expect to be the major power in the world by 2050.

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  12. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scottl View Post
    The word "them" in this case referred to U.S. officials. It was in response to Sino-fan-boy's snide remark about the Soviet Union being dead and no longer a threat.
    I'm wondering if you know that the Soviet Union no longer exists? Russia is though becoming a threat more and more. Follow what's going on and especially around the Baltic. Maybe you should also look at where a place called Kalingrad is on a map. Maybe Russia will sell but I doubt it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by otrlt View Post
    Great news for all Machinist;

    US Navy awards largest-ever shipbuilding contract to Electric Boat for new attack submarines.

    Although I won't be directly impacted by this 22 billion dollar procurement, this is very good for east coast defence contractors.
    You should get on the bidders list, you could keep your Tormach and Craftsmen lathe busy if you play your cards right.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Scottl View Post
    It's also a problem for Hong Kong, Taiwan, Malaysia, the Philippines and Vietnam. Eventually it may be a problem for Japan and maybe even someday Australia.

    China has plans, BIG plans, and they expect to be the major power in the world by 2050.
    Why should it surprise anyone that China has BIG plans? OTOH how many countres have they attacked or been involved in war with the past century? It's surprisingly few.

    What China has achieved the past 25 odd years is remarkable and surely you can understand they have no intention of being pushed around any more. They're looking out for what they believe are in their best interests. The USA does the same.

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    Quote Originally Posted by triumph406 View Post
    You should get on the bidders list, you could keep your Tormach and Craftsmen lathe busy if you play your cards right.
    If the climate doomsday fanatics are right then next century we'll all be living in boats or submarines or up in the mountains.

    Damn. We don't have mountains Anybody got a drawing of Noah's Ark?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gordon B. Clarke View Post
    I'm wondering if you know that the Soviet Union no longer exists? Russia is though becoming a threat more and more. Follow what's going on and especially around the Baltic. Maybe you should also look at where a place called Kalingrad is on a map. Maybe Russia will sell but I doubt it.
    I'm curious, what is it that is going on in the Baltic region now, as opposed to say 5, 10 or 15 years ago?
    and where are you getting your information from?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cole2534 View Post
    There hasn't been peace on earth since the population exceeded 1.
    What? You're blaming Eve?

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  19. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by triumph406 View Post
    You should get on the bidders list, you could keep your Tormach and Craftsmen lathe busy if you play your cards right.
    Hello triumph,
    I wouldn't get too exited about Electric Boat just yet. It will be years before the cash will start to flow to the subcontractors.

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    I was hitchhiking in Maine decades ago.
    Guy picked me up who had done war work building subs during WWII.
    He was running machinery rolling the steel hoops for the pressure hulls.
    What would that have been- Bath Iron Works?

    I always remember that.
    He was still impressed by the scale of the work years after.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jz79 View Post
    I'm curious, what is it that is going on in the Baltic region now, as opposed to say 5, 10 or 15 years ago?
    and where are you getting your information from?
    I'm guessing you usually speak Russian more than Latvian? Russia is provoking more and more.

    "Latvian was spoken as a second language by 20.8% of the population, and 43.7% spoke Russian as a second language. ... In total, 71% of ethnic Latvians said they could speak Russian, and 52% of Russians could speak Latvian."

    Take your pick.

    f 16 in the baltic - Google Search

  22. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trboatworks View Post
    I was hitchhiking in Maine decades ago.
    Guy picked me up who had done war work building subs during WWII.
    He was running machinery rolling the steel hoops for the pressure hulls.
    What would that have been- Bath Iron Works?

    I always remember that.
    He was still impressed by the scale of the work years after.
    It is likely Bath but half the US subs were also built in Manitowoc Wi.

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  24. #77
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gordon B. Clarke View Post
    Why should it surprise anyone that China has BIG plans? OTOH how many countres have they attacked or been involved in war with the past century? It's surprisingly few.

    What China has achieved the past 25 odd years is remarkable and surely you can understand they have no intention of being pushed around any more. They're looking out for what they believe are in their best interests. The USA does the same.
    Until only a few decades ago China had lot's of people but very limited military might (compared to western forces). They had to stop and rethink their strategy after their disastrous attack on Vietnam in 1979.

    As for their activities in the past century?

    From 1927 to 1949 they were involved in the Chinese Civil War, partially interrupted by the war with Japan from 1931 to 1945.

    In the early 1950s they fought numerous battles to suppress bandits.

    From 1952 to 1955 they fought the nationalists for control of several islands and archipelagos.

    From 1950 to 1958 they also fought to suppress the Kuomintang Islamic insurgency.

    In 1950 they also invaded and conquered Tibet.

    In 1960 they fought the nationalists at the China-Burma border.

    From 1950 to 1953 they also entered the Korean war after North Korea was facing defeat at the hands of the USA.

    They had involvement in the Vietnam war from 1959 to 1975.

    In 1962 they had a border war with India.

    They had further clashes with India in 1967.

    They had a border conflict with the Soviets in 1969.

    They launched an invasion into Vietnam in 1979 to punish them after Vietnam invaded Cambodia to deal with the brutal Khmer Rouge, who had attacked Vietnam in 1977. China withdrew after a major ass-kicking from the Vietnamese.

    There is far more detail of China's military belligerence in the 20th century but the above are just a few highlights.

    Looking back in time China has been involved in numerous conflicts internally and with neighbors as far back as the 26th century BC and as recently as the start of the 19th century.

    I did not include the opium wars and the Boxer Rebellion because in those cases China was defending itself against foreign aggression.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gordon B. Clarke View Post
    I'm guessing you usually speak Russian more than Latvian? Russia is provoking more and more.

    "Latvian was spoken as a second language by 20.8% of the population, and 43.7% spoke Russian as a second language. ... In total, 71% of ethnic Latvians said they could speak Russian, and 52% of Russians could speak Latvian."

    Take your pick.

    f 16 in the baltic - Google Search
    that is a load of BS, or statistics, whatever you want to call that data, I don't want to go in details now, since I'm typing this on a phone, but in short - military spending was too little here, now it is more, and to justify that a threat was invented by politicians

    the reality is - more and more Russians speak Latvian especially younger generation, and the high percentage of Latvians that can (not would) speak Russian comes from Russian being main language here during Soviet era

    only the dumb part of native russians and ww2 veterans here want the soviet era to return, and there are not that many of them, and media is reporting those non-issues because it is what they do - sensationalism

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  27. #79
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gordon B. Clarke View Post
    If the climate doomsday fanatics are right then next century we'll all be living in boats or submarines or up in the mountains.

    Damn. We don't have mountains Anybody got a drawing of Noah's Ark?
    I wouldn't worry. Denmark is one of several countries where apparent sea levels are falling instead of rising. It has to do with plate tectonics. Venice on the other hand is in big trouble because the plate they sit on is sliding under the mountains. They have a double whammy because of soil compaction, aggravated by groundwater extraction.

    Venice Sinking Has Nothing To Do with Climate Change • Italy Travel Ideas

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    Quote Originally Posted by Scottl View Post
    You are constantly knocking the U.S. while praising all things China.
    You can't read for shit and that's as far as I'm going to go with this nonsense. Sometimes, Scott, you are nucking futz.

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