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  1. #81
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scottl View Post
    It's also a problem for Hong Kong, Taiwan, Malaysia, the Philippines and Vietnam. Eventually it may be a problem for Japan and maybe even someday Australia.

    China has plans, BIG plans, and they expect to be the major power in the world by 2050.
    Well, yeah, no argument there—but my concern is not immediate because I'll be either dead or 102. In any case, the trends that put China at the pinnacle of world rubber-ducky production are working against them—as is demographics, a great leveler. Maybe even some entirely unpredictable event, like an insurrection too widespread to put down. Nobody knows. There were plenty of books written circa 1980 predicting that Japan would own the world by 2000, even that we would have to engage them in a second Pacific war, but it didn't happen and now that near-panic is forgotten. So I'm not persuaded of the inevitability of Chinese world hegemony. Or of anthropogenic global warming/climate change, but that's another popular fear I'll leave to the next batch of fools to either succumb to or forget about and move on.

    Australia is some tempting real estate though.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Scottl View Post
    Until only a few decades ago China had lot's of people but very limited military might (compared to western forces). They had to stop and rethink their strategy after their disastrous attack on Vietnam in 1979.

    As for their activities in the past century?

    From 1927 to 1949 they were involved in the Chinese Civil War, partially interrupted by the war with Japan from 1931 to 1945.

    In the early 1950s they fought numerous battles to suppress bandits.

    From 1952 to 1955 they fought the nationalists for control of several islands and archipelagos.

    From 1950 to 1958 they also fought to suppress the Kuomintang Islamic insurgency.

    In 1950 they also invaded and conquered Tibet.

    In 1960 they fought the nationalists at the China-Burma border.

    From 1950 to 1953 they also entered the Korean war after North Korea was facing defeat at the hands of the USA.

    They had involvement in the Vietnam war from 1959 to 1975.

    In 1962 they had a border war with India.

    They had further clashes with India in 1967.

    They had a border conflict with the Soviets in 1969.

    They launched an invasion into Vietnam in 1979 to punish them after Vietnam invaded Cambodia to deal with the brutal Khmer Rouge, who had attacked Vietnam in 1977. China withdrew after a major ass-kicking from the Vietnamese.

    There is far more detail of China's military belligerence in the 20th century but the above are just a few highlights.

    Looking back in time China has been involved in numerous conflicts internally and with neighbors as far back as the 26th century BC and as recently as the start of the 19th century.

    I did not include the opium wars and the Boxer Rebellion because in those cases China was defending itself against foreign aggression.
    Wow. What have the USA been involved in during that time span? Don't answer. It's a rhetorical question

  3. #83
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scottl View Post
    I wouldn't worry.
    I guess I'm lucky. I can't think of anything I do worry about.

  4. #84
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scottl View Post
    Until only a few decades ago China had lot's of people but very limited military might (compared to western forces). They had to stop and rethink their strategy after their disastrous attack on Vietnam in 1979.

    As for their activities in the past century?

    From 1927 to 1949 they were involved in the Chinese Civil War, partially interrupted by the war with Japan from 1931 to 1945.

    In the early 1950s they fought numerous battles to suppress bandits.

    From 1952 to 1955 they fought the nationalists for control of several islands and archipelagos.

    From 1950 to 1958 they also fought to suppress the Kuomintang Islamic insurgency.

    In 1950 they also invaded and conquered Tibet.

    In 1960 they fought the nationalists at the China-Burma border.

    From 1950 to 1953 they also entered the Korean war after North Korea was facing defeat at the hands of the USA.

    They had involvement in the Vietnam war from 1959 to 1975.

    In 1962 they had a border war with India.

    They had further clashes with India in 1967.

    They had a border conflict with the Soviets in 1969.

    They launched an invasion into Vietnam in 1979 to punish them after Vietnam invaded Cambodia to deal with the brutal Khmer Rouge, who had attacked Vietnam in 1977. China withdrew after a major ass-kicking from the Vietnamese.

    There is far more detail of China's military belligerence in the 20th century but the above are just a few highlights.

    Looking back in time China has been involved in numerous conflicts internally and with neighbors as far back as the 26th century BC and as recently as the start of the 19th century.

    I did not include the opium wars and the Boxer Rebellion because in those cases China was defending itself against foreign aggression.
    You left out what I thought was important so it's now in red.

    "OTOH how many countrIes have they attacked or been involved in war with the past century? It's surprisingly few."

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gordon B. Clarke View Post
    You left out what I thought was important so it's now in red.

    "OTOH how many countrIes have they attacked or been involved in war with the past century? It's surprisingly few."
    Up until recently they had neither a robust blue water navy nor a long range air force. They have been at war with Russia, India, South Vietnam, Unified Vietnam, Republic of China (Taiwan), and Tibet at various times in the 20th century, often more than once with the same country.

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    Quote Originally Posted by gbent View Post
    The USA was a pacifist nation until December 7, 1941. ....
    Except for the rather large contingent who were actual nazi sympathizers. America First, anyone?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Scottl View Post
    Up until recently they had neither a robust blue water navy nor a long range air force. They have been at war with Russia, India, South Vietnam, Unified Vietnam, Republic of China (Taiwan), and Tibet at various times in the 20th century, often more than once with the same country.
    Kool-Aid can be hazardous to your health.

    btw, there is no such thing as the "Republic of Taiwan". The US said so on the decks of the battleship Missouri.

    Or is your memory as good as your reasoning ?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Scottl View Post
    Up until recently they had neither a robust blue water navy nor a long range air force. They have been at war with Russia, India, South Vietnam, Unified Vietnam, Republic of China (Taiwan), and Tibet at various times in the 20th century, often more than once with the same country.
    Most of these as I recall were short term. Re Vietnam (and you left out Korea) then China was "involved" just as the USA was. Both were much closer to China than they were to the USA.

    China has the maximum number of neighbours touching its border. The 14 countries touching its border are: India, Pakistan, Afghanistan, Tajikistan, Kyrgyzstan, Kazakhstan, Mongolia, Russia, North Korea, Vietnam, Laos, Myanmar, Bhutan and Nepal.

    How many countries has America fought?
    According to Kelly and Laycock's book, the United States has invaded or fought in 84 of the 193 countries recognized by the United Nations and has been militarily involved with 191 of 193 – a staggering 98 percent. Aug 31, 2016

    If only
    YouTube
    Last edited by Gordon B. Clarke; 12-07-2019 at 05:27 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by otrlt View Post
    Hello triumph,
    I wouldn't get too exited about Electric Boat just yet. It will be years before the cash will start to flow to the subcontractors.
    Your probably right, it'll be a few years before any serious fab starts.

    Although I assume they'll be making tank models to test the hull shape, assuming it's a new hull.

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    I thought this thread may have been about the US buying one of the brand new aircraft carriers the UK has built but can't afford to run. I read somewhere that the latest one was up for sale. Maybe they could sail it up the Thames to deter the the next knife wielding nut case running amok near Parliament.

    Regards Tyrone.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tyrone Shoelaces View Post
    I thought this thread may have been about the US buying one of the brand new aircraft carriers the UK has built but can't afford to run. I read somewhere that the latest one was up for sale. Maybe they could sail it up the Thames to deter the the next knife wielding nut case running amok near Parliament.

    Regards Tyrone.
    I think your bystanders (the fire extinguisher usage was brilliant) and the cops did a fairly good job this time....
    you should be proud.

    of course they had to clean up the phycologist's mistakes.....

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    Good Morning Tyrone,
    The US has more carriers than all countries combined, but there's a glitch. What is becoming more evident is that they are becoming obsolete. Air Tankers are changing the usefulness of these dinosaurs.

    What is very interesting is that the US is the only military power that is going "all in" on Air Tanker usage. Most military powers don't have any at all.

    When US Generals want something, they get it. No questions asked.

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    Quote Originally Posted by otrlt View Post
    Good Morning Tyrone,
    The US has more carriers than all countries combined, but there's a glitch. What is becoming more evident is that they are becoming obsolete. Air Tankers are changing the usefulness of these dinosaurs.

    What is very interesting is that the US is the only military power that is going "all in" on Air Tanker usage. Most military powers don't have any at all.

    When US Generals want something, they get it. No questions asked.
    Part of the reason is the difference between our armed forces.

    The Navy mostly uses carrier-capable aircraft while the Air Force equipment is land-based. While most Navy fighters can refuel in flight it is vital to Air Force operations. Also, many aircraft are too large to operate from carriers and in-flight refueling gives them the ability to travel anywhere around the globe without making stops. This is vital as under some circumstances permission to land in other countries or even overfly their territories might be refused.

    Many experts say that carriers are as obsolete as battleships due to advanced anti-ship weapons. Only an actual conflict would confirm that as many officials think U.S. antimissile technology provides adequate protection.

    In either case, nuclear attack submarines which are the subject of this thread provide a valuable adjunct to modern naval operations. I find it interesting that Australia's desires to obtain such vessels as part of their national defense were thwarted by antinuclear protestors within the country. While the protestors based their claims on storage of spent nuclear fuel their actions would leave Australia vulnerable in the event an aggressive nation in the region chose to use its naval forces to threaten them.

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    Likely mach 4 is the secret for USA and Russia, perhaps China. Rockets that would go into space and then come down on target..about 4 to 8 minuets to reach space.. Subs with rockets 20 or 50 miles off shore would be difficult to defend against. An all out war.. I don't even want to think about it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by otrlt View Post
    When US Generals want something, they get it. No questions asked.
    Otrlt, do you realize that in addition to fluoridating water, why, there are studies underway to fluoridate salt, flour, fruit juices, soup, sugar, milk... ice cream. Ice cream, otrlt, children's ice cream.

    I can no longer sit back and allow Communist infiltration, Communist indoctrination, Communist subversion and the international Communist conspiracy to sap and impurify all of our precious bodily fluids.

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  18. #96
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    Quote Originally Posted by EmanuelGoldstein View Post
    Kool-Aid can be hazardous to your health.

    btw, there is no such thing as the "Republic of Taiwan". The US said so on the decks of the battleship Missouri.

    Or is your memory as good as your reasoning ?
    Your knowledge of history is as poor as your reading comprehension. I said "Republic of China (Taiwan)".

    The battleship Missouri was the scene of the Japanese surrender in 1945. BTW, the Missouri spent about half of 1949 undergoing an overhaul in Norfolk Naval Shipyard.

    As for the Republic of China (Taiwan), it is very much still a country despite the U.S. change in attitude in 1971 as we fell for The Great Deceit engineered by Henry Kissinger. That was the beginning of the period of declining U.S. manufacturing and the middle class as China grew wealthier and more powerful with U.S. dollars.

    Taiwan - Wikipedia

    There is also still a country called Tibet although it is currently under occupation by an unpleasant neighbor.

    LEARN A LITTLE ABOUT TIBET

    Freedom in the World 2019 | Tibet * Country Report

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    Quote Originally Posted by EmanuelGoldstein View Post
    Otrlt, do you realize that in addition to fluoridating water, why, there are studies underway to fluoridate salt, flour, fruit juices, soup, sugar, milk... ice cream. Ice cream, otrlt, children's ice cream.

    I can no longer sit back and allow Communist infiltration, Communist indoctrination, Communist subversion and the international Communist conspiracy to sap and impurify all of our precious bodily fluids.
    You've been watching " Dr Strangelove " I presume.

    Regards Tyrone.

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    Quote Originally Posted by otrlt View Post
    Good Morning Tyrone,
    The US has more carriers than all countries combined, but there's a glitch. What is becoming more evident is that they are becoming obsolete. Air Tankers are changing the usefulness of these dinosaurs.

    What is very interesting is that the US is the only military power that is going "all in" on Air Tanker usage. Most military powers don't have any at all.

    When US Generals want something, they get it. No questions asked.
    We were hoping to sell one to you before you realised that aircraft carriers are going the way of the " Dreadnoughts ".

    Regards Tyrone.

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    Quote Originally Posted by EmanuelGoldstein View Post
    Otrlt, do you realize that in addition to fluoridating water, why, there are studies underway to fluoridate salt, flour, fruit juices, soup, sugar, milk... ice cream. Ice cream, otrlt, children's ice cream.

    I can no longer sit back and allow Communist infiltration, Communist indoctrination, Communist subversion and the international Communist conspiracy to sap and impurify all of our precious bodily fluids.
    Seems the USA and UK are heading down that path..to Socialism and Communism. loss of freedom to even think for one's self....

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    Quote Originally Posted by otrlt View Post
    ...I wouldn't get too exited about Electric Boat just yet. It will be years before the cash will start to flow to the subcontractors.
    Nothing changes- this is just a multi-year procurement that follows the already existing schedule.

    We have 2 yards capable of building nuclear submarines. GD Electric Boat and Huntington Ingalls NNS. Construction is divided between them- each yard has a piece of every Virginia Class submarine, and final assembly is split between the two.

    We launch at a rate of 2/year, and that is not expected to change. The current shipbuilding plan has that same rate all the way through 2048.


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