US Steel Cancels $1.5Billion Expansion Thanks To Bidenomics - Page 2
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  1. #21
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    you bet, all that infrastructure spending is REALLY gonna hurt the steel industry.

    if US steel can't figure out how to innovate and make money in this market, it's a sad commentary on American industry, not on who is president now.
    ok, I know it just makes humans feel good to wallow in the Spector of impending doom to "prove" you are right, and "the other side" is wrong, but we are in the same country believe it or not, and we should all be working together to make this nation stronger and more competitive. our enemies WANT us to fight these silly pointless squabbles instead of that, don't fall for it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by cyanidekid View Post
    . . . we are in the same country believe it or not, and we should all be working together to make this nation stronger and more competitive. our enemies WANT us to fight these silly pointless squabbles instead of that, don't fall for it.
    ^^^ sensible.

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    For decades, American companies have been using cheap chinese labor to make an end-run around US labor laws. It's a crime that the government has allowed goods manufactured in lands with cheap labor and minimal environmental regs to be imported here without equalizing tariffs that reflect the cost of doing business in the US with American labor. By not applying tariffs to imports, the government indirectly subsidizes the exportation of manufacturing. Businesses that keep their manufacturing in the US are forced into competition with companies that have outrageously lower costs. This isn't some sort of hidden 3rd-order effect, either. It was obvious from day one. Irrespective of what your heroic and honorable politicians say, it's self-evident that encouraging the export of American industry to china is the official policy of the US government.

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    Quote Originally Posted by cyanidekid View Post
    you bet, all that infrastructure spending is REALLY gonna hurt the steel industry.

    if US steel can't figure out how to innovate and make money in this market, it's a sad commentary on American industry, not on who is president now.
    ok, I know it just makes humans feel good to wallow in the Spector of impending doom to "prove" you are right, and "the other side" is wrong, but we are in the same country believe it or not, and we should all be working together to make this nation stronger and more competitive. our enemies WANT us to fight these silly pointless squabbles instead of that, don't fall for it.
    What country are you talking about---"should all be working together"...LMAO. "our enemies" shit you have people posting here that are probably cheering the news about ANY industry that so much as looks sideways at a lump of coal or a drop of oil closes it's doors. Don't even mention those morons who might need a paycheck because since they don't have a graduate degree or at minimum a master's then they don't deserve to even exist.

    Too late pal...damn near half those who voted have been branded as deplorables and now as terrorists by some of our elected "leaders". It's gone beyond "silly pointless squabbles".

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    Quote Originally Posted by standardparts View Post
    Too late pal...damn near half those who voted have been branded as deplorables and now as terrorists by some of our elected "leaders". It's gone beyond "silly pointless squabbles".
    What do you call a bunch of radicals who want to destroy the government and act on it?

    I call them terrorists. They were out in force in the Nation's Capitol, on January 6th, 2021.

    Beating policemen, chanting "Hang Mike Pence", and destroying as much as they could get their hands on.

    Terrorists. Secessionists. And judging by the CBF's, racists.

    I don't want to be associated with that sort of deplorable.

    Do you?

    If not, why do you feel aggrieved? Why do you feel harmed, when the democratic process worked exactly as intended on November 3rd, and rejected the failure in chief and elected a new, competent President?

    Are you supporting all the new efforts by the Corrupt Old Party to rewrite history? To fabricate lies on top of lies? To keep the fairy tale of trump winning the election alive? To cast out of the COP any who tell the truth about trump?

    You've fallen hard for a conman. Someone, if not directly in thrall to Putin, sure does consistently do his bidding. I can't understand why any American would support that.

    We've seen what happens when a major country gives in to despotism and cults of personality. Is that what you want?

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    You know when you factor in shipping wouldn’t be surprised
    if domestically produced steel Is actually less polluting.

    Now us steel hasn’t really been in the steel biz for a long time they diversified.

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  11. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Milland View Post
    What do you call a bunch of radicals who want to destroy the government and act on it?

    I call them terrorists. They were out in force in the Nation's Capitol, on January 6th, 2021.

    Beating policemen, chanting "Hang Mike Pence", and destroying as much as they could get their hands on.

    Terrorists. Secessionists. And judging by the CBF's, racists.

    I don't want to be associated with that sort of deplorable.

    Do you?

    If not, why do you feel aggrieved? Why do you feel harmed, when the democratic process worked exactly as intended on November 3rd, and rejected the failure in chief and elected a new, competent President?

    Are you supporting all the new efforts by the Corrupt Old Party to rewrite history? To fabricate lies on top of lies? To keep the fairy tale of trump winning the election alive? To cast out of the COP any who tell the truth about trump?

    You've fallen hard for a conman. Someone, if not directly in thrall to Putin, sure does consistently do his bidding. I can't understand why any American would support that.

    We've seen what happens when a major country gives in to despotism and cults of personality. Is that what you want?
    Milland.....Well so much for "can't we all get along" LMAO

    BTW---Buy NUCOR! #1 Steel processor in North America. You can thank me later.

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    standardparts, You are wasting your time,The blind will never see...Phil

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    Quote Originally Posted by Phil in Montana View Post
    standardparts, You are wasting your time,The blind will never see...Phil
    Phil...I know that.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Straightedge View Post
    For decades, American companies have been using cheap chinese labor to make an end-run around US labor laws. It's a crime that the government has allowed goods manufactured in lands with cheap labor and minimal environmental regs to be imported here without equalizing tariffs that reflect the cost of doing business in the US with American labor. By not applying tariffs to imports, the government indirectly subsidizes the exportation of manufacturing. Businesses that keep their manufacturing in the US are forced into competition with companies that have outrageously lower costs. This isn't some sort of hidden 3rd-order effect, either. It was obvious from day one. Irrespective of what your heroic and honorable politicians say, it's self-evident that encouraging the export of American industry to china is the official policy of the US government.
    Yikes, we nearly agree.

    The slight disagreement is that industry has been so busy lobbying for (and getting) a green light to export jobs that I'm be more inclined to blame the people using their influence and money to buy political favor than the Congress critters and Cabinet secretaries accepting their "contributions."

    I blame our anything-for-short-term-profits business culture first, the manufacturing executives exploiting it for bonuses second, a political system now riddled with hidden money third, and that sizeable fraction of Congress critters, Cabinet secretaries, etc. who end up being bought and paid for fourth.

    Since we voters put up with it -- we're high up in that blame chain as well.

    US Steel is far from the most egregious example of this lobbying. Still, the company managed to kill scores of people from pollution and when the country decided to do something about it did its lobbying-best to see that someone else paid the price. In a way, smog so thick you could only see halfway down the block, with eyes and lungs stinging from sulfurous air was a good thing. It was harder to deny its reality - and thus we had an actual bipartisan consensus we needed to do something about it. That would be Nixon's Clean Air Act around 1970. Thirty years later, US Steel was still ranked something like the #2 air polluter in the US, Still, places like Pittsburgh eventually became pretty decent places for businesses to thrive and people to live.

    Most US Steel lobbying since has been for protective tariffs. Don't ever recall them lobbying for a level playing field on, say, pollution emissions as you and I suggest. Instead, rather than use that money to modernize its facilities and improve productivity to compete over the long haul, it went to improve "shareholder returns." Same story as, say, electric grid operators today.

    Meanwhile other companies (and Nucor in the US) were investing in core steel making business and now hold the 26 or so places ahead of it in terms of output.

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    Quote Originally Posted by standardparts View Post
    Milland.....Well so much for "can't we all get along" LMAO
    Hey, I can get along with anyone who loves democracy, their fellow citizens, and country over despotism and personality cults.

    Conservative? Sounds good to me. trump is not a Conservative. Romney is. Who's being booed at COP conventions?

    Liberal? Sounds good to me.

    Libertarian? Well, I regard them as political sophists, especially when you look at the simpleton Ayn Rand wannabes. Whatever, as long as they think their dogma doesn't give them the right to have their pollution flow onto my property, I'll just ignore them.

    Communist? I'm not sure there's ever been an actual Communist. Lots of dictators and warlords who've dressed up in Communist drag, but actual Communists? Nah...

    Socialists? What flavor?

    Etc.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Phil in Montana View Post
    standardparts, You are wasting your time,The blind will never see...Phil
    Fill, you got those shade 20 welding goggles on, you're surely not qualified to claim anyone else is blind.

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    Except for one little tiny winy little thing...I sure as hell paid more taxes than you ever did (that have been totally wasted) and now under your pride and joy we will watch inflation destroy what is left...Phil

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    Quote Originally Posted by Big B View Post
    But if it comes from trump you can hang on every lie. Who dresses you trump cult members?
    I hope it is not a mother like dresses you up for kindergarten every day. Your style is rather frumpy. Cult leaders again? I suppose the world wide search for Q has messed you guys up. Chill out why don’t ya?

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    Quote Originally Posted by adammil1 View Post
    Yes I read the actual press release they have over 100million in machinery sitting there that they will reuse somewhere else likely in a country that isn't planning on taxing the crap out of CO2 emissions.

    By the way I actually saw the story first on Bing news where I read multiple sources.

    The problem that the environmentalists never seem to realize if you want to do what's best for the environment you really ought to make it easy to permit best in class manufacturing technologies locally and then enjoy the jobs that come with it. All the time letting the newer more efficient cleaner technology displace the older stuff.

    The alternative is you penalize the heck out of a company like this and next thing you know the plant goes up in China or Mexico or somewhere else with far less pollution controls and since CO2 is a global problem you actually make things much worse.

    How do you think US Steel is going to invest these funds if they're not going to do it in Pittsburgh and how will it really be better for the environment? Judging by their actions I bet that the 100+million of equipment in storage probably will be deployed somewhere other then here but who knows.

    Sent from my SM-J737V using Tapatalk
    Yes good point about where to invest. The answer likely will be generally someplace where the money can get a good ROI. When the government steps in and stops everything basically it is like a almost unstoppable force which blocks the effort. No one wishes to use up vitality and waste it fighting a entrenched belief structure.

    It is a shame really. Hey so a president does not have the power to influence any economics? I think that statement ignores so many things we discuss all the time like this situation.

    At any rate steel prices up is something. I find it fascinating to watch. I feel for USS - always have. I wanted them to be allowed for employees to own and operate them back in the 80’s when they basically failed. If they had the whole world of manufacturing could be better. A different path than what happened and with guardians/owners who actually cared.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Phil in Montana View Post
    Except for one little tiny winy little thing...I sure as hell paid more taxes than you ever did (that have been totally wasted) and now under your pride and joy we will watch inflation destroy what is left...Phil
    Glad you know how much I've made, and I'm happy to know about how bad your tax attorneys are.

    BTW - inflation will be an issue, but at least trump's not in office now to continue his terrible policies that have led to it. Good thing there are adults in the White House now, they'll have a vastly better chance of controlling the beast trump unleashed.

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  25. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trueturning View Post
    Yes good point about where to invest. The answer likely will be generally someplace where the money can get a good ROI. When the government steps in and stops everything basically it is like a almost unstoppable force which blocks the effort. No one wishes to use up vitality and waste it fighting a entrenched belief structure.

    It is a shame really. Hey so a president does not have the power to influence any economics? I think that statement ignores so many things we discuss all the time like this situation.

    At any rate steel prices up is something. I find it fascinating to watch. I feel for USS - always have. I wanted them to be allowed for employees to own and operate them back in the 80’s when they basically failed. If they had the whole world of manufacturing could be better. A different path than what happened and with guardians/owners who actually cared.
    "Where to invest"? Good question. Maybe in regards to making steel you go where the steel is needed. Since NAFTA is gone that could mean a location anywhere in North America. Let's think here a minute as to where labor and regulations might be more attractive along with taxes. Now throw in mandates that demand business is required to implement paid time off, unionization, along with other programs designed to correct social injustice. Oh....how about setting up a remelt mill where auto manufacturing and maybe washing machines and steel for construction is being located? Simple----South of the border. Joe Biden dictates new rules and manufacturing will deal with it. Am sure China can deal with it. Nucor just did-- along with a Japanese partner. Stay tuned...Hey man I got it..A solution to the crisis on the border! Manufacturing jobs to Mexico.

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    So back to steel.
    You don't see this every day.

    US Midwest domestic hot rolled (futures contract):


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    I would take a press release from any major corporation with a grain of salt, but esp US Steel. They (Baker, et al) were one of the "robber barons" of US Industry (Vanderbilt, Carnegie, Jay Gould, etc) and haven't changed their stripes, though their influence and market share have waned.

    In the early 80's they won huge tax concessions to modernize their plants so as to compete with foreign steel, then used the money to buy Marathon Oil. Bullshitters. Even Republicans were outraged.


    Quote Originally Posted by adammil1 View Post
    Maybe I am wrong but i would think a 1.5 Billion plant expansion is something that is done with a much longer time horizon in mind than the market is overheating today best pump the brakes now.

    I would think that at a cost of about 20% of their entire market cap, this is really a bet that the company is trying to make for the next 30-40 yrs.

    If they like me see the climate change stuff as making it super expensive to make their product here in the USA while far less expensive for either them or their competitors to make the steel in other countries why would they invest here?

    Sent from my SM-J737V using Tapatalk

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    Quote Originally Posted by Trboatworks View Post
    So back to steel.
    You don't see this every day.

    US Midwest domestic hot rolled (futures contract):


    Put a small mill near the manufacturing demand 200 small mills spread out and no huge one location of pollution. But there still is carbon to be eliminated so start using solar and wind for mill operations. Lock in ore and natural gas from South America in front of locating mills South of the border. In the U.S. buy up all the scrap yards to feed the furnaces. Influence political decision making?--Damn right you do. Go BIG or go home. When those $$Trillions in infrastructure funding start flowing it's gonna be the company that has rebar and structural steel mills spread all over who's going to win big.


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