US Steel Cancels $1.5Billion Expansion Thanks To Bidenomics - Page 8
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  1. #141
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    Quote Originally Posted by otrlt View Post
    I welcome high steel prices, listen... this means things are rolling. Most of us in Manufacturing have never seen what is happening now.

    This is a good time to cut metal, pass on the higher cost of the steel and add 50% of that cost and put in your pocket.

    Inflation, can be very profitable.
    You have got that wrong sunshine. I add on 100% and put that in my pocket, my customers love me for it. My best customer advises that I mark up 200% and he will pay me earlier.

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  3. #142
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trboatworks View Post
    That is my fear as well.
    I believe we are mistaken in conflating this event with mere burglary as in a ransom attack..

    Likely we won't ever know the who, reason/intent-political/military/financial, and true outcome.

    Took years to tell the story regarding Stuxnet and then the narrative could be a complete fabricaton and that was over 10 years ago. The real point is just about anyone can do the deed but it appears defending against cyber attack , very tough.

    Guess we will have to judge by President Biden's response.

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    Quote Originally Posted by standardparts View Post
    What country are you talking about---"should all be working together"...LMAO. "our enemies" shit you have people posting here that are probably cheering the news about ANY industry that so much as looks sideways at a lump of coal or a drop of oil closes it's doors. Don't even mention those morons who might need a paycheck because since they don't have a graduate degree or at minimum a master's then they don't deserve to even exist.

    Too late pal...damn near half those who voted have been branded as deplorables and now as terrorists by some of our elected "leaders". It's gone beyond "silly pointless squabbles".
    Too late pal.... haha! no, this is still a great country, with its flaws. it was a great country last year, and it will be a great country next year. it's up to all of us to reject the easy "high", the sturm und drang of division and panic.

    things are just not as bad as OAN and fox and MSNBC would lead you to believe. panic is profit for them, as it is for Putin and Xi Jinping. don't be such a snowflake! don't be a sucker or a stooge, turn off the hate mongers, division begets division, rejecting it is the answer.

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  6. #144
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    Quote Originally Posted by standardparts View Post
    Likely we won't ever know the who, reason/intent-political/military/financial, and true outcome.

    Took years to tell the story regarding Stuxnet and then the narrative could be a complete fabricaton and that was over 10 years ago. The real point is just about anyone can do the deed but it appears defending against cyber attack , very tough.

    Guess we will have to judge by President Biden's response.
    The world has become a strange place.
    If a state actor had bombed the pipeline it would be an act of war.
    This... not so much but the damn result is near the same.

  7. #145
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    Quote Originally Posted by camscan View Post
    You have got that wrong sunshine. I add on 100% and put that in my pocket, my customers love me for it. My best customer advises that I mark up 200% and he will pay me earlier.
    Of course they thank you for bending them over. Maybe you need to file bankruptcy like trump loves to do. It's easier than working you know, stiffing others for your laziness.

  8. #146
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trboatworks View Post
    The world has become a strange place.
    If a state actor had bombed the pipeline it would be an act of war.
    This... not so much but the damn result is near the same.
    Possible the ransomware got introduced into the companies system by an email--"possible" as in just guessing--and the resulting trashing and locking of files forced the company to shut down the pipeline.

    Maybe the pipeline was collateral damage of a corporate shakedown.

    As before...we will have to wait for the President Biden to issue some sort of statement.

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    Quote Originally Posted by cyanidekid View Post
    Too late pal.... haha! no, this is still a great country, with its flaws. it was a great country last year, and it will be a great country next year. it's up to all of us to reject the easy "high", the sturm und drang of division and panic.

    things are just not as bad as OAN and fox and MSNBC would lead you to believe. panic is profit for them, as it is for Putin and Xi Jinping. don't be such a snowflake! don't be a sucker or a stooge, turn off the hate mongers, division begets division, rejecting it is the answer.
    "OAN and fox and MSNBC would lead you to believe" will have to take your word for it...have watched very little mainstream news for a few years now.

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    Any of the mudlingers from either side haveany comment on Reis' (as usual) balanced, informed, and informative post?

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  12. #149
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    We don't listen to Ries anymore.
    He is far too balanced and informed...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Trboatworks View Post
    The world has become a strange place.
    If a state actor had bombed the pipeline it would be an act of war.
    This... not so much but the damn result is near the same.
    In a sense that is the beauty of it and the huge danger.

    Most wars are fought over economic/political power. With a traditional war, you go in, kill people and break things. The guys that do it the fastest and the most effective with the ability to continue doing it for an indefinite period win. The problem is that the real estate that you just conquered is all broken, the work force decimated and the economic win diminished. So now you need to rebuild everything to some degree to make your win a win.

    However if you go in and disrupt their supply chain and not break anything, you have still weakened your adversary, caused economic damage and at the same time not caused any damage that requires you to rebuild and more then likely, your adversary will need to do even more trade with you to compensate for the disruptions, which was probably the root cause of the war.

    Cyber attacks such as this are relatively easy to track as all internet traffic leaves a foot print. The only reason Suxnet was not revealed earlier was that its purpose was to remain as obscure as possible.

    The idea was to let the Iranians run the centrifuges as long as possible without revealing its existence and waste their precious centrifuge time. If the centrifuges had been destroyed, they would have simply purchased or manufactured new ones. They would have been back in business in days or weeks. By Suxnet spinning the centrifuges at a different rate then displayed, the separation process of the different isotopes was disrupted and being that in the separation of the different isotopes is a fractional process, you won't know anything is wrong until you don't get the expected results at the end and then try to figure out what went wrong. This would likely be months down the road.

    Distributed automation is particularly at risk for what has happened. Each node in the automation control system has unique IP addresses and the system can be brought down in a multitude of ways, from the outside and the inside. In many ways the outside is more exposed and far easier to cause an effective disruption, say simply by disrupting the VPN connections between nodes.

    I seriously doubt any real mention of what happened will be revealed for some time as we will want to do as much digging as possible in the attack methodology. We also do not want to cause a panic in the general population so blaming it on hackers is a safer cover story, not a direct lie but not the frightening truth.

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    Quote Originally Posted by standardparts View Post
    "OAN and fox and MSNBC would lead you to believe" will have to take your word for it...have watched very little mainstream news for a few years now.
    And is shows in your posts. When you get your news from liars you won't sound very smart to the rest of us.

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  17. #152
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ziggy2 View Post
    In a sense that is the beauty of it and the huge danger.
    One thing I note about this attack was the huge data trove which was taken before the disruption.
    Curious.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Trboatworks View Post
    One thing I note about this attack was the huge data trove which was taken before the disruption. Curious.
    Not so curious. More like inevitable.

    The web, in particular, is now shit. It was never intended for the uses people are putting it to. It is not secure, was never intended to be secure, and never will be or can be secure. The "high-tech" people running things are certified idiots, because they are convinced they are smarter than anyone else and their "solutions" will make an inherently insecure vehicle "safe". Basically, it's hubris.

    For example, the Mickeysoft-IBM fallout was basically about security. IBM guys insisted on going through the code looking for ways bad guys could misuse it. Mickey's cowboys insisted that was a waste of time. Divorce. Who "won in the marketplace" ? And here we are.

    Fact is, anyone who uses the internet is at risk. The size of the risk depends on the assets you have. For me, who cares ? But a public utility should not be using the damn thing at all. It used to be you'd have to procure dynamite or fertilizer in quantity, physically get past guards and cameras, know how to use explosives, plant them in the correct place, get away, then trigger them to take out a bridge or pipeline.

    Now a 16 year old kid in Mom's basement can do it, and don't kid yourself they can't. Two of the biggest suppliers of underground weapons and ammo turned out to be teenagers who scammed the Defense Department. The people in charge of high-tech security are too stupid to know how stupid they are.

    Hubris. Check out a few Greek dramas to see where that ends up.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Trboatworks View Post
    That is my fear as well.
    I believe we are mistaken in conflating this event with mere burglary as in a ransom attack..
    I think that more than one other process/manufacturing facilities have been shut down by ransomware.
    This one big enough to make the news as such.
    Normally more reported out as "network" or computer problems for good reason.

    I am not seeing some foreign state actor although it could be.
    Outcome would be known and the motive what? Not a real major disruption and you have opened your hand.
    Ransomware insurance is a real thing and pays out in bitcoin so money to be made.

    Retail was more the past target but they have boosted protection so it moves to the next low hanging fruit.
    A large company is "assaulted" constantly from around the globe, hundreds or even thousands per day.

    Unsure Ziggy2's often use of VPN as an example of such attack.
    Bob

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    Quote Originally Posted by EmanuelGoldstein View Post
    ....
    Fact is, anyone who uses the internet is at risk. .
    But we all love the internet and it has brought many good things to all.
    Once you log on you give up some things. A tradeoff for better or worse.
    Let's say there is a way to be private but you give up 50 or 100 times the speed? Who chooses what plus knowing that you are dealing with a rather shady crowd?
    I do remember the first time connecting before it was the internet. It was so magic and one did not think about bad actors.
    Then personal computers and BBS systems. Again friendly but now one could put things inside a download.

    Now the advice is do not click on a email or message.
    My wife is real bad about this and comes to me with "I think I have been hacked".
    I tell here probably. Then she gets way pissed and wild with "fix it for me".
    Bob

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    Quote Originally Posted by Big B View Post
    And is shows in your posts. When you get your news from liars you won't sound very smart to the rest of us.
    "sound very smart to the rest of us" BWAHAHAHAHAHA

    C'mon Big B-ess this is the PM shit show channel.

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    Quote Originally Posted by standardparts View Post
    "OAN and fox and MSNBC would lead you to believe" will have to take your word for it...have watched very little mainstream news for a few years now.
    Curios question.
    In the way gone past some bias news but now know it is so one sided in many popular. (Choose a side).
    Where did this go off the rails?
    I watch Fox and MSNBC for a bit but can only cringe and turn it off as this is not news but some other thing altogether. Both sides not playing with a full deck.

    Do we only want to hear what to hear that agrees with us and is comfy?
    Preaching to the choir is now news? I do realize it is real money making and all that maybe good capitalism.
    Maybe who raises the most money wins across the board.
    Bob

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    Quote Originally Posted by CarbideBob View Post
    I think that more than one other process/manufacturing facilities have been shut down by ransomware.
    This one big enough to make the news as such.
    Normally more reported out as "network" or computer problems for good reason.

    I am not seeing some foreign state actor although it could be.
    Outcome would be known and the motive what? Not a real major disruption and you have opened your hand.
    Ransomware insurance is a real thing and pays out in bitcoin so money to be made.

    Retail was more the past target but they have boosted protection so it moves to the next low hanging fruit.
    A large company is "assaulted" constantly from around the globe, hundreds or even thousands per day.

    Unsure Ziggy2's often use of VPN as an example of such attack.
    Bob
    With a pipe line disruption as this and not knowing the exact details, there are two major ways to disrupt the system. You can either shut it down which only causes economic damage for the disruption period and some collateral costs of the product schedule being transferred is disrupted. The other is if the messed with valve sequencing and we ended up with various products in the wrong tanks, contaminating the contents. This could feasibly render multiple tank farms contents unusable until verified for purity etc. Worst case you might have tanks that in essence will need to be re-refined or repurposed depending on the contamination levels.

    The only reason I was mentioning VPN was our VPN networks were all down in the time frame this was happening and VPN tunnels are used by so many WAN applications.

    No matter how exactly it was done, there potentially was/is the opportunity to have made a lot of money if you would have known and taken a market position that was favorable for a disruption. There are a multitude of groups that would benefit from this from intelligence recon of foreign states, oil producing nations, political groups wanting disruption, etc., to the hacker guy in the basement.

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    Quote Originally Posted by standardparts View Post
    "OAN and fox and MSNBC would lead you to believe" will have to take your word for it...have watched very little mainstream news for a few years now.
    well... if you consider One America News Network (OAN)mainstream, what ferret hole are you stuck down? can I give you a hand?

    you do know that "Q" is just some jackass in the Philippines playin' ya, don't you?

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  27. #160
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    Quote Originally Posted by cyanidekid View Post
    well... if you consider One America News Network (OAN)mainstream, what ferret hole are you stuck down? can I give you a hand?

    you do know that "Q" is just some jackass in the Philippines playin' ya, don't you?

    C'mon man...serious stuff...Feds just declared a state of emergency over the pipeline shutdown.


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