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    Default USA Government Shutdown

    I have read on this site in the shop owners forum that you can get in big trouble for not paying employees for work that they have performed. It appears that the US government has people working and not being paid for it. Is the government exempt from paying employees?

    I won't bother to ask to keep this thread non political. I have been here long enough to know better.

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    The Gov't always exempts itself from all the things they require us little people to do. Ask how many of those employees' work places are subject to OSHA regulations.

    Dennis

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    It's just standard issue BS.
    divide and conquer 101.
    Art of War and all that.

    setting the stage for 2020

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    One item that has me puzzled. How can the government force an employee to work without pay? Threat of being fired? Arn't these people civil service? Don't they have a union?

    Tom

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    They are still calculating the payments in damages form Ted Cruz’s stunt.
    Not only are back wages due, so are all late fees, any damages like a lost home as well as interest.
    So, while trump has a political tantrum, people are worried about keeping their homes and the lawyers are licking their chops.

    Oh, and if your contract says work, you have to or quit.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Modelman View Post
    The Gov't always exempts itself from all the things they require us little people to do. Ask how many of those employees' work places are subject to OSHA regulations.

    Dennis
    I just wonder if they actually made a law that said that the government doesn't need to pay them or just quit paying them.

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    I think I got this one → from the days when you had to have a “civics class credit” in order to get outta high school.

    The Gov’t can’t write a bad check. The money budgeted and placed in those many & various accounts has been spent. The Gov’t hasn’t raised the debt limit → to borrow money to refill those accounts…

    The constitution deems that ALL spending & borrowing MUST originate in the house. The house in the last congress didn’t clean up that little mess…

    The new congress will take it up when they want to… I s’pect this might take a while as the pres has to sign or veto it (he won’t leave this one on the desk IMO). Then the congress overrides the veto or starts over.

    Quote Originally Posted by TDegenhart View Post
    One item that has me puzzled. How can the government force an employee to work without pay? Threat of being fired? Arn't these people civil service? Don't they have a union?

    Tom
    We still have civil servants (not union) and we now have gov’t employees that are union (all not civil service). The big trade off has been wages go up for the latter but the retirement is not as lush. Post office is the latter for instance, the retired PO civil servants make MORE than when the were working. It goes up every year by congressional act at the same ratio as CONGRESS (more or less)...

    Good luck,
    Matt

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    I think if I was a furloughed gov employee it'd be cool. Time off with pay.

    But, considering the statistic that was going around a year or so ago....47% of the adult USA population can't come up with $400 for an emergency expense. Near the same percent applied in England and Europe. Presumable a good many of the 47% are gov employees.


    The "can't come up with" catch is you had to be able to pay it back in 30 days. It could be a loan or cash advance, credit card, etc, etc, it just had to be paid back in a month.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Matt_Maguire View Post
    I think I got this one → from the days when you had to have a “civics class credit” in order to get outta high school.

    The Gov’t can’t write a bad check. The money budgeted and placed in those many & various accounts has been spent. The Gov’t hasn’t raised the debt limit → to borrow money to refill those accounts…

    The constitution deems that ALL spending & borrowing MUST originate in the house. The house in the last congress didn’t clean up that little mess…

    The new congress will take it up when they want to… I s’pect this might take a while as the pres has to sign or veto it (he won’t leave this one on the desk IMO). Then the congress overrides the veto or starts over.



    We still have civil servants (not union) and we now have gov’t employees that are union (all not civil service). The big trade off has been wages go up for the latter but the retirement is not as lush. Post office is the latter for instance, the retired PO civil servants make MORE than when the were working. It goes up every year by congressional act at the same ratio as CONGRESS (more or less)...

    Good luck,
    Matt
    The house doesn't send it to the president until the senate has had their say and McConnell won't bring it to the senate floor is what I've been seeing.

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    They'll all be paid. Historically they're been paid after every shutdown.

    This one will be no different.

    Many of us get paid monthly.

    Government Workers get paid Bi-Weekly. For most of these Government Workers TODAY was their first missed paycheck.

    Federal workers to be stiffed $2.2B when they miss their first paycheck Thursday

    This is not political. I am only posting a news story from the Washington Examiner.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Big B View Post
    The house doesn't send it to the president until the senate has had their say and McConnell won't bring it to the senate floor is what I've been seeing.
    I stand corrected, the house passed a bill on Dec 20. It contained funding for the border wall. The senate majority leader apparently doesn’t think it will get 60 votes needed to get it on the Pres desk so he avoided it.

    I can’t remember the orders of business the senate changed to only require a majority (that filibuster change goes back to ACA). So this must not be one of them. Nevertheless, new congress and this is likely going back to the ways & means committee no matter who starts crying. At least if I were a newly elected house member I'd want my "freshly elected & up to date with my voters" say in the matter.

    I get every indication that the Donald really doesn’t care if he’s re-elected. I don’t look for a quick solution.

    Good luck,
    Matt

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    As a former government engineer who was employed thru multiple government shutdowns I would like to respond to some of the previous posts in the order they were posted. Keep in mind that things may have changed since I retired.

    Government agencies are exempt from OSHA, but most of them opt in to avoid legal problems.

    Government employees are generally represented by unions. Engineers have no national union, but the majority of government employees are represented by a national union, AFGE which is a part of the AFL-CIO. The unions don't really have any power because the federal government can fire everyone for failing to follow Executive Office orders. If you don't believe it, ask the air traffic controllers.

    Typically, all of the employees get paid back pay whether they had to work or not.

    I was never aware of anyone ever getting any interest payments or any other kind of compensation for damages resulting from their furloughs.

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    [QUOTE=Matt_Maguire;(that filibuster change goes back to ACA).
    Matt[/QUOTE]

    no I don't believe so, I think the final vote on Obamacare was done on 'reconciliation' which is a simple majority

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    Another thing to remember- only a few hundred thousand of those workers are actually government employees, who do get paid, eventually. But hundreds of thousands more are contract employees, or work for subs. Who dont get anything if they dont work. If you were, say, a cafeteria employee, security, guard, janitor, landscaper, or just a temp, you just plain dont get paid. Most janitors (and the subs are usually non-union, unlike the federal employees) dont have any savings. They are just screwed.
    Then, there are the other fallout issues- no food inspections- so- does the fast food restaurant just serve the ground beef, or the romaine lettuce, even though they know there are no inspections?
    What happens when the food stamps dont get paid, and people dont eat?
    What about the income tax return checks? Trump claims he is going to make them get sent, but the IRS doesnt know how- 4000 IRS employees in Ogden Utah alone are not working.
    Obviously, no audits taking place.
    The guys who repair and safety check air traffic control equipment arent working.
    What happens when the radar breaks?
    When the plane crashes?
    Of course, TSA is suffering from mass sick-ins- if it goes on, the lines at airports, which are already getting longer, could get insane.

    There are dozens of unintended consequences all down the line- a lot of stuff that will show up as we go on.

    My guess is Trump will declare an emergency, and then, when the Supreme Court tosses it out, shrug and say he was right, but what could he do?
    Meanwhile, once he gets his emergency, and a few token Army Corps excavators get filmed on tv, he will agree to restart the government.
    He just doesnt want to lose face, by looking like he blinked.

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    Quote Originally Posted by gustafson View Post
    no I don't believe so, I think the final vote on Obamacare was done on 'reconciliation' which is a simple majority
    Yep. It’s pretty Byzantine.
    It’s the same way Bush II pushed the ten trillion in debt through.

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    I bet trumps maids and cooks are considered essential employees and are still working. The piazza companies should create a joint commercial and show how they are helping feed the government during this "crisis" by trucking in Pizzas to the white house. May be Molly Maids a can tag along to the commercial. since trump has never cleaned up after himself since he became a millionaire at age 9.
    Bil lD.

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    The laid off employees are being advised to apply for unemployment as soon as a check is missed. They want them too hold onto the check and not cash it but they may need the money now and have to repay it if they get back pay latter. Of course the unions know this will also make trumps claim of job growth a lie with over 200,00 jobs lost in two weeks.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Big B View Post
    I just wonder if they actually made a law that said that the government doesn't need to pay them or just quit paying them.
    Senate guarantees back shutdown pay for federal workers


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