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  1. #381
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    Quote Originally Posted by PeteM View Post
    FYI, Denmark is likely about the same as US in terms of coal as a % of power generation. From the Wiki article you could have cited:
    I think you'd be surprised at how much that has changed the past decade. As far as Demark goes then your link has some pretty old facts. I worked for one of the electrical companies mentioned (Elsam) for over 6 years 35 years ago. That's about when wind turbines started in Denmark.

    Energy in Denmark - Wikipedia

  2. #382
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    Quote Originally Posted by SeaMoss View Post
    Looks like I wasted the last twenty-three years of my life living in China ....
    I wasn't trying to discredit your POV, just stating that ones person word is as good as the others. You can take it that way though.......

  3. #383
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    Quote Originally Posted by Plouch16 View Post
    I wasn't trying to discredit your POV, just stating that ones person word is as good as the others. You can take it that way though.......
    That's okay, I'm not that thin-skinned.

    Not so sure about that "one person's word is as good as another's" tho ... sounds kinda touchy-feely to me

    Quote Originally Posted by Sea Farmer View Post
    Thanks for sharing the Kremlin's point of view -- again.
    Debout, les damnés de la terre
    Debout, les forçats de la faim
    La raison tonne en son cratère
    C'est l'éruption de la fin !
    Du passé faisons table rase
    Foule esclave, debout, debout !
    Le monde va changer de base
    Nous ne sommes rien, soyons tout !

  4. #384
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    Quote Originally Posted by SeaMoss View Post
    Debout, les damnés de la terre
    Debout, les forçats de la faim
    La raison tonne en son cratère
    C'est l'éruption de la fin !
    Du passé faisons table rase
    Foule esclave, debout, debout !
    Le monde va changer de base
    Nous ne sommes rien, soyons tout !
    What's with the Canadian? You movin' again?

    Good Moaning Compilation - YouTube

  5. #385
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    Quote Originally Posted by Plouch16 View Post
    Sorry Scott, I should have clarified. 24/7 reliable nuclear plants is what I'd like some information on, assuming you have it.
    Like so much else they are safe 24/7 - IN THEORY

    I'm very much in favour - as long as I don't need to live near one.

    A nuclear plant, a windmill and a solar panel are at a party, and the nuclear plant is getting all the attention from the hottest girls. Jealous, the windmill and solar panel ask the nuclear power what his secret is. Naturally, the atomic power player says "Well, Mr. Windmill, you're just spinning your wheels in place and blowing a lot of air getting nowhere, and you Mr. Solar Panel, you suck up all the light and your character is very flat. On the other hand, I am the bad boy every hottie loves: I'm dangerous, I'm toxic to the core, I'm hard to handle, and my charm is radioactive."

  6. #386
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gordon B. Clarke View Post
    Like so much else they are safe 24/7 - IN THEORY
    This is what I was getting at. If nuclear energy has taught us anything, it's that there is always a flaw somebody has overlooked. Whether it be immediate or decades down the road, a mistake has been made.

  7. #387
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    Quote Originally Posted by Plouch16 View Post
    This is what I was getting at. If nuclear energy has taught us anything, it's that there is always a flaw somebody has overlooked. Whether it be immediate or decades down the road, a mistake has been made.
    The problem, like most things, is that no one hears of and therefore knows of the ones that work 24/7 because it's boring. "Breaking news today, such-and-such power plant has had nothing interesting happen, no lost time accidents, and no unplanned deviations from performance levels. Again." lol

    I mean, we still go forth with petroleum products that have had MASSIVE failures and horrendous destruction which threatened untold levels of life, destroying habitats which are slow to recoup, etc. But that's somehow acceptable?

    We need alternatives. Better ones. Perfect is the enemy of good. Nothing is perfect. Stop looking for perfect and be happy with "significantly better" and we can get somewhere. It's like sinking in quick sand and not grabbing onto a tree branch someone extended for you, because you think it might break or that a rope would be better... all the while you keep sinking.

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  9. #388
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    Quote Originally Posted by JNieman View Post

    I mean, we still go forth with petroleum products that have had MASSIVE failures and horrendous destruction which threatened untold levels of life, destroying habitats which are slow to recoup, etc. But that's somehow acceptable?
    Sorry if it came off that I'm anti-nuclear power, because I'm not. I did a couple reports in college about nuclear energy, and I never saw anything describing it as "24/7 reliable".

    Quote Originally Posted by JNieman View Post
    We need alternatives. Better ones. Perfect is the enemy of good. Nothing is perfect. Stop looking for perfect and be happy with "significantly better" and we can get somewhere. It's like sinking in quick sand and not grabbing onto a tree branch someone extended for you, because you think it might break or that a rope would be better... all the while you keep sinking.
    I agree that we need better alternatives, but this way of thinking is backward-ass. We need to continually seek perfection, even though we will never achieve it. We also need to continually disagree with happiness as far as development on alternative fuel sources go, because this is exactly why fossil fuels have reigned supreme for so long.

  10. #389
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    Quote Originally Posted by Plouch16 View Post
    I agree that we need better alternatives, but this way of thinking is backward-ass. We need to continually seek perfection, even though we will never achieve it. We also need to continually disagree with happiness as far as development on alternative fuel sources go, because this is exactly why fossil fuels have reigned supreme for so long.
    I think we have the same standards but phrase it differently.

    I always hold 'perfect' as the goal or standard. That's always what we reach for. I just mean to say we shouldn't accept inaction simply because perfection is out of reach. We should continuously improve and strive for it, progressing along the way. I feel the current state of fossil fuel usage is stagnation.

    I don't want to be a part of a nation of people who are content to sit in their metaphorical rocking chair on the front porch all day, wiling away their days watching the world go by. I want to be a part of a nation that innovates and changes, and sets the example for the rest of the world.

    So when I'm old I can literally sit in my rocking chair on the front porch feeling happy about the world I'm leaving my progeny.

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  12. #390
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scottl View Post
    One thing I have suspected for years is that the fuel companies may have quietly helped to fan anti-nuclear sentiment to protect themselves from a source that otherwise would be their most serious competitor.
    Wouldn't surprise me. I think not exploiting nuclear power is one way the rest of the world will leave us behind in an important sector.

    Think of the benefit of having more engineers and scientists studying nuclear physics. It could spread to medical benefits, space travel/equipment benefits, etc. Having more brains working on a relatively new science that is likely very under-exploited would provide benefits we can't even know, yet. The immediate tangible benefits of a reliable carbon-reduced power infrastructure make it worthwhile on its own - the tangential benefits could be truly revolutionary for some industries.

    That's sort of why it was important to keep educating rocket scientists during peace time... you don't want to end up in a war and all your rocket scientists are gone of old age. A 'state of readiness' has value bean counters can't understand.

    Edit-to-add: Not that I'm saying we should keep making better nuclear bombs. I'm not. We're already at a level of guaranteed mutual annihilation so that has plateaued. But compact nuclear power could be amazing for logistics of combat just as much as satellite comms was.

  13. #391
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scottl View Post
    One thing I have suspected for years is that the fuel companies may have quietly helped to fan anti-nuclear sentiment to protect themselves from a source that otherwise would be their most serious competitor.
    I think this is a given.

  14. #392
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    Quote Originally Posted by Plouch16 View Post
    I wasn't trying to discredit your POV, just stating that ones person word is as good as the others. You can take it that way though.......
    No.
    One persons word is not as good as the others.
    An expert in a field is valuable, a political hack is not.
    A known liar is not as valuable as an honest man.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Miguels244 View Post
    No.
    One persons word is not as good as the others.
    An expert in a field is valuable, a political hack is not.
    A known liar is not as valuable as an honest man.
    You're taking this to an extreme, and out of context.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Scottl View Post
    And a capitalist's word is not as valuable as that of a Marxist?
    I wonder what the opposite of a Marxist would be.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Miguels244 View Post
    I wonder what the opposite of a Marxist would be.
    Something that makes sense.....

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    Quote Originally Posted by Scottl View Post
    And a capitalist's word is not as valuable as that of a Marxist?
    I'm directing Plouch16's post where it belongs.

    "You're taking this to an extreme, and out of context."

    Someone like me would probably confuse you as I'm both left and right depending on the issue.
    You lean so constantly right I'm surprised you don't walk in circles.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Plouch16 View Post
    Something that makes sense.....
    Marxism makes a lot of sense...but only in certain situations.
    Some elements of an economy work with simple market forces, some do not.
    Some work best in a command structure.

    The single greatest threat to all economies is monopoly.
    Something both Marx and the Austrian school fail to address.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Miguels244 View Post
    I wonder what the opposite of a Marxist would be.
    marx.jpg

    Never could figure it out

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    Quote Originally Posted by Plouch16 View Post
    I did a couple reports in college about nuclear energy, and I never saw anything describing it as "24/7 reliable".
    Better tell that to the US Navy then, because they have been running many submarines and some surface ships 24/7 since 1956.

    Quote Originally Posted by Miguels244 View Post
    The single greatest threat to all economies is monopoly.
    Or collusion, which is basically the same thing and what we have now. It's no different really than a command-and-control economy, except for who holds the reins.

    Hey ! Just occurred to me ! You guys are really commies ! hahahaha

    Quote Originally Posted by Scottl View Post
    And a capitalist's word is not as valuable as that of a Marxist?
    Hmm. Lloyd Blankfein vs Che Guevara ... that's a tough one. Think I'll have to go with Che tho.

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    Quote Originally Posted by SeaMoss View Post
    Better tell that to the US Navy then, because they have been running many submarines and some surface ships 24/7 since 1955.
    Two different types of reactors, power outputs, and different uranium content fuels. Although a close apples to apples comparison, it simply isn't.


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