US company making things in Cuba

CarbideBob · Feb 16, 2016

I'm sort of surprised not to see this pop up now that it seems real so here goes:
APNewsBreak: US OK's first factory in Cuba since revolution
Products are for use inside Cuba but the brain power is located here.
Might not be long before made there is on our superstore shelves. This would be a huge boom to them.
For such a long time our enemy, now companies want to help them.
Surely money is the motivator not some nice gesture to help out this little country.
Is this selling out or just leveling the playing field?
Are we suddenly ok with Cuba since we are ok with China? How did China get the first pass?
Just to add fire was it a republican or a democrat president that decided to trade with a big ole communist based country.
Bob

tdmidget · Feb 16, 2016

It was Richard Nixon that opened relations with China. George Bush 41 gave China Most Favored Nation status. Been downhill ever since.

Greg White · Feb 17, 2016

Wasn't George bush seniors brother the ambassador to china
when he was pres? I swear he set the whole,profit thing(for his) up.
presscott bush?
Gw

neilho · Feb 17, 2016

We've been trading with the Soviet Union/Russia for quite a while...

Gordon B. Clarke · Feb 17, 2016

CarbideBob said:
For such a long time our enemy, now companies want to help them.
Surely money is the motivator not some nice gesture to help out this little country.
Bob

How many companies can you name where money isn't the motivator?

Gordon B. Clarke · Feb 17, 2016

CarbideBob said:
I'm sort of surprised not to see this pop up now that it seems real so here goes:
APNewsBreak: US OK's first factory in Cuba since revolution
Products are for use inside Cuba but the brain power is located here.
Might not be long before made there is on our superstore shelves. This would be a huge boom to them.
For such a long time our enemy, now companies want to help them.
Surely money is the motivator not some nice gesture to help out this little country.
Is this selling out or just leveling the playing field?
Are we suddenly ok with Cuba since we are ok with China? How did China get the first pass?
Just to add fire was it a republican or a democrat president that decided to trade with a big ole communist based country.
Bob

All countries export as much as they can. That's where the money is - not domestic sale.

DMF_TomB · Feb 17, 2016

CarbideBob said:
I'm sort of surprised not to see this pop up now that it seems real so here goes:
APNewsBreak: US OK's first factory in Cuba since revolution
Products are for use inside Cuba but the brain power is located here.
Might not be long before made there is on our superstore shelves. This would be a huge boom to them.
For such a long time our enemy, now companies want to help them.
Surely money is the motivator not some nice gesture to help out this little country.
Is this selling out or just leveling the playing field?
Are we suddenly ok with Cuba since we are ok with China? How did China get the first pass?
Just to add fire was it a republican or a democrat president that decided to trade with a big ole communist based country.
Bob

.
.
it is extremely simple the communist tried for about 100 years communism and found human nature is not to do any more than they have to if not rewarded. thus not having enough food or famines every so often.
.
China when it allowed farmers to grow extra food and keep any money when they sold the extra food found food production went up 400% is a few years. (this from USA CIA report). in China their are currently more capitalist making money than in the USA. they usually do not like to talk about it that way but it is true.
.
Cuba is merely doing what China and Russia have already done that is allow limited capitalism and tax it of course same as in other countries.
.
you are more likely going to see food grown in Cuba. oranges, bananas, etc. they have always grown food but did not export huge amounts as who would buy it before. selling crops to Florida seems likely. their has been manufacturing in Cuba of course. you do not keep cars running 50 years unless people can make parts. big multi nationals mining minerals and doing large scale stuff that might be new

Ries · Feb 17, 2016

Cuba has been, since 1960 or so, a monarchy, with "communist" window dressing.
It is not a textbook communist country (not that such a thing has ever really existed).
Like Russia, or China, or Albania, or North Korea, the country has been run by insiders who enrich themselves, and stamp out all dissent, to keep their heirs and chosen successors in power.
And, like most similar economic and political models, like, for instance, monarchies, it has failed economically, and only succeeded politically due to authoritarian government control.

but, economically, they do export lots of stuff-
just the stuff that Castro decides can succeed.

for instance, and this is completely opposite to most american's ideas of what Cuba is-
They are a world leader in biotechnology and pharmaceuticals.
They have a very good university system, IF you are politically correct, and great scientists, and they make all kinds of drugs and biotech products, and they sell them worldwide.

The Cuban Biotech Revolution | WIRED

WHO | Cuba

https://jnci.oxfordjournals.org/content/92/13/1034.long

and, as the last article shows, the idea that "human nature" means people wont do any more than they have to- well, its wrong.
Cuban scientists are doing amazing things, for thirty bucks a month.
People are people, and most actually want to work, no matter how screwed up the government is.
Even here, in the USA, thats true.

michiganbuck · Feb 17, 2016

That could drive the Cuban wage rate up to $50 a month for manufacturing and export to the US, that is likely the next step.

We really need to go Communist here to get our wage rate that low so we can compete with the rest of the world..Or Not?

Still I like having relations with Cuba but dread trying to compete with them.
That might get sugar down to $ .10 a pound so we could afford still having cookies..
Machinists rate $.35 (thirty five cents) an hour...What?

[now companies want to help them]... no companies want to make more money and cuba will be another source of dong so..We will be able to get Cuba made stuff for 5% less (retail) less than American stuff (when costs may be 30% less) and more jobs will go down the pike.
My wife used to watch two kids with Cuban parents.. They would take extra clothes to give to family still living there. They said one could not talk about politics or such issue even in a restaurant because some people doing so just disappear.

DMF_TomB · Feb 17, 2016

Ries said:
Cuba has been, since 1960 or so, a monarchy, with "communist" window dressing.
It is not a textbook communist country (not that such a thing has ever really existed).
Like Russia, or China, or Albania, or North Korea, the country has been run by insiders who enrich themselves, and stamp out all dissent, to keep their heirs and chosen successors in power.
And, like most similar economic and political models, like, for instance, monarchies, it has failed economically, and only succeeded politically due to authoritarian government control.

but, economically, they do export lots of stuff-
just the stuff that Castro decides can succeed.

for instance, and this is completely opposite to most american's ideas of what Cuba is-
They are a world leader in biotechnology and pharmaceuticals.
They have a very good university system, IF you are politically correct, and great scientists, and they make all kinds of drugs and biotech products, and they sell them worldwide.

The Cuban Biotech Revolution | WIRED

WHO | Cuba

https://jnci.oxfordjournals.org/content/92/13/1034.long

and, as the last article shows, the idea that "human nature" means people wont do any more than they have to- well, its wrong.
Cuban scientists are doing amazing things, for thirty bucks a month.
People are people, and most actually want to work, no matter how screwed up the government is.
Even here, in the USA, thats true.

.
there were multiple times of famines in China and Russia where millions starved to death cause not enough food grown. when farmers are rewarded food production goes up a lot not a little. Communist have tried various methods like giving medals for people who work more but ultimately higher pay money works best
.
Communist have tried many, many, many, many times over the years to make communism work and it has always, always, always ended with millions starving. my chinese wife who lived through starvation and famine obviously does not think much of communism. amazing how starving to death makes people hate communism every time especially when they see family members starving to death too. never ever met a person who talked of communism working good who lived through a actual communist famine and seeing the family members starve to death
.
when they talk of mothers going hungry so children have something to eat. when they talk of hatred of fathers watching them eating cause they need strength to work., you obviously have not met famine survivors if you think communism works. when they eat grass not cause a human can live of grass but cause they have to put something in their stomach. talk to famine survivors you might learn the truth about communism

michiganbuck · Feb 17, 2016

Communist system could only work if the top leader had exactly the same benefits as the average worker.

DMF_TomB · Feb 17, 2016

michiganbuck said:
Communist system could only work if the leaders had exactly the same benefits as the average worker.

.
notice picture of Mao from China he was always on the heavy side even when millions of his people were starving and he was sending rice to Russia to pay off loans. he thought let the people starve and they will work harder as good communist should. millions died of starvation was the result. those who tried to tell him of the starvation and millions dying were sent to reeducation camps. i have met engineers who were making red bricks for years cause they were being reeducated.
.
thats the truth of what happens to doctors or engineers who disagree with the communist government. they go get educated doing hard labor that is if they want to eat they do the labor

Ries · Feb 17, 2016

DMF_TomB said:
.
notice picture of Mao from China he was always on the heavy side even when millions of his people were starving and he was sending rice to Russia to pay off loans. he thought let the people starve and they will work harder as good communist should. millions died of starvation was the result. those who tried to tell him of the starvation and millions dying were sent to reeducation camps. i have met engineers who were making red bricks for years cause they were being reeducated.
.
thats the truth of what happens to doctors or engineers who disagree with the communist government. they go get educated doing hard labor that is if they want to eat they do the labor

everything you describe is true.
but it is the result of a dictatorship that uses communism as a label.
I am not in favor of communism.
I think it wont work.
But I also dont think Cuba is a pure communist country, and much of what is wrong with Cuba is from a single person ruling it for decades.

I know actual cubans. They will be very happy to see more freedom there, and more open relations with the United States.
But the ones I know, who suffered the most under communism, were not doctors of engineers- they actually got treated much better than most.
My friends are Gays, Artists, Musicians, and Writers- they were the ones who really get screwed under a system like communism.

Anyway- Cuba is opening up.
Some of what "capitalism" does in Cuba will be good, and some will be terrible.
But the standard of living will probably go up, and certainly some people will make money. Lots of it.

DMF_TomB · Feb 17, 2016

Ries said:
everything you describe is true.
but it is the result of a dictatorship that uses communism as a label.
I am not in favor of communism.
I think it wont work.
But I also dont think Cuba is a pure communist country, and much of what is wrong with Cuba is from a single person ruling it for decades.

I know actual cubans. They will be very happy to see more freedom there, and more open relations with the United States.
But the ones I know, who suffered the most under communism, were not doctors of engineers- they actually got treated much better than most.
My friends are Gays, Artists, Musicians, and Writers- they were the ones who really get screwed under a system like communism.

Anyway- Cuba is opening up.
Some of what "capitalism" does in Cuba will be good, and some will be terrible.
But the standard of living will probably go up, and certainly some people will make money. Lots of it.

.
the truth is no country is pure communist or pure democratic but a mix
.
in China you get permission to farm, own no land and you give crops to government for using land. here farmers give crops or money to lease or rent land. in usa if you do not pay land taxes they take your land away. when you own land all you really own is the tax bill.
.
in communist countries if doctor or engineer disagrees too much they do hard labor being reeducated. in usa if you piss off medical board you loose medical license and cannot practice medicine maybe for years or maybe permanent. when you think about it yes there are differences in countries but a lot of similarity too. often it is just lost in translation

Gordon B. Clarke · Feb 17, 2016

Greg White said:
Wasn't George bush seniors brother the ambassador to china
when he was pres? I swear he set the whole,profit thing(for his) up.
presscott bush?
Gw

Which is better, business rivals or deadly rivals? I think anyone with knowledge of China will agree that Americans are more liked by ordinary Chinese than apparently vice versa.

Find and sell products the Chinese want to buy and you'll have the largest market in the world. Buying "western" to those with money is "in" and it is surprising how many of them have money to spend.

Chinese tourists in Denmark spend more money per person than any other nationality.

Chinese tourists flocking to Copenhagen | The Post

http://www.visitcopenhagen.com/site...f_chinese_visitors_to_scandinavia_-_final.pdf

Gordon B. Clarke · Feb 17, 2016

DMF_TomB said:
.
the truth is no country is pure communist or pure democratic but a mix
.
in China you get permission to farm, own no land and you give crops to government for using land. here farmers give crops or money to lease or rent land. in usa if you do not pay land taxes they take your land away. when you own land all you really own is the tax bill.
.
in communist countries if doctor or engineer disagrees too much they do hard labor being reeducated. in usa if you piss of medical board you loose medical license and cannot practice medicine maybe for years or maybe permanent. when you think about it yes there are differences in countries but a lot of similarity too. often it is just lost in translation

I'm not sure if any country in the world still is truly communist. I gave up long ago trying to find any tangible difference between communism and capitalism.

Freedom is great but how free are we regarding doing what we want when we want?

Ries · Feb 17, 2016

DMF_TomB said:
.
the truth is no country is pure communist or pure democratic but a mix
.
in China you get permission to farm, own no land and you give crops to government for using land. here farmers give crops or money to lease or rent land. in usa if you do not pay land taxes they take your land away. when you own land all you really own is the tax bill.
.
in communist countries if doctor or engineer disagrees too much they do hard labor being reeducated. in usa if you piss off medical board you loose medical license and cannot practice medicine maybe for years or maybe permanent. when you think about it yes there are differences in countries but a lot of similarity too. often it is just lost in translation

you are confusing capitalism with democracy.

the countries that have been "communist"- which means Mainland China, Albania, the Soviet Union, Cuba, and North Korea, mainly, there was not a mix of "democracy" and communism.
Democracy is a political system that uses voting by citizens to determine government.
this did not happen in these countries when they were communist.

"capitalism" is what you are thinking of, which is always present, legally or not, in a mix with socialism.

there were always capitalists, even if they were technically illegal, in all of these countries.

Now, china is still communist, but its also very capitalist.
There are over 200 billionaires there, and million dollar condos.

Cuba is going to become a lot more capitalist.
no telling if it will become more democratic.
It could allow lots of corporations to do business there, and not allow voting.

hanermo · Feb 17, 2016

No.
They make an effective 600$ / month now (probably, based on lots of experience with similar countries. Dont have personal experience-cuba).

Their prices/std of living will grow 20% yr/yr, and in 3-4 years will have pp parity with the us.
So, within 4-5 years, good machinists there will make about 1500-2000$ /month, over there.
In cuba, still in 2020, this will still be an excellent salary / std of living.
By 2020, 2000$ in cube == 4000 $ in the USA.

There will be relatively few, its a small place, in huge demand, and they will make excellent stuff, with great results.

The exact same thing has happend eg in estonia, our neighbour with finland, where I come from.
This was, generally, a huge benefit for estonia and a great benefit for finland.

Some, very few, machine shops will see "competition" from cuba.
This will mostly be because they are not effective/efficient/modern.

In mexico, good machinists make 2000-2500$/mo.

michiganbuck said:
Still I like having relations with Cuba but dread trying to compete with them.

Machinists rate $.35 (thirty five cents) an hour...What?

jim rozen · Feb 17, 2016

"there were multiple times of famines in China and Russia where millions starved to death cause not enough food grown. "

Many of these were instances of the government deliberately ignoring real science for phony science, namely Lamarkian
genetics.

Hmm. Now where else do we see major political parties deliberately ignoring science because of their dogma?

michiganbuck · Feb 17, 2016

[Some, very few, machine shops will see "competition" from cuba.
This will mostly be because they are not effective/efficient/modern.]

Having free trade with Cuba it wont take long for USA manufacturers to be taking the latest equipment there.They can be just as effective, efficient and modern.

2013 looks like $20 USD a month up 1 percent from year before.
Average salary in Cuba Fox news.
Average salary in Cuba rose 1 pct last year to $20 a month | Fox News Latino

US company making things in Cuba

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