What do you Brits think of the vote..? - Page 6
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  1. #101
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    Of note is that this process that could and should stretch out many years.
    Yet some want to force it very fast, imposing as much pain on the Brits as possible. That is understandable and normal if you work on the shop floor and complain.
    That end game is interesting to watch. Add the shakeup in the UK leaderships.
    Big power, big money, very big egos at risk here.
    One hopes the good of the general populace prevails
    Bob

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  3. #102
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    Quote Originally Posted by CarbideBob View Post
    Of note is that this process could and should stretch out many years.
    Yet some want to force it very fast, imposing as much pain on the Brits as possible.
    That end game is interesting to watch. Big power, big money, big egos at risk here.
    Bob
    Why should it take time?
    Pull the plug...like a band aid.
    Make all the brits lave and apply for work permits within 30 days of the article 50.
    They were worried about border control...let em have it.

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  5. #103
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    Quote Originally Posted by Miguels244 View Post
    Why should it take time?
    Pull the plug...like a band aid.
    Make all the brits lave and apply for work permits within 30 days of the article 50.
    They were worried about border control...let em have it.
    Any chance we could convince you to move to the EU?

    You'd fit right in with the big government socialist crowd running things.

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  7. #104
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    Quote Originally Posted by Miguels244 View Post
    Pull the plug...like a band aid.
    .

    Well one downside risk here is that you pull the plug and the Brits are big enough in the the world economy to overcome it.
    That would be way interesting.
    Everyone in the family obeyed the old rules for fear of leaving the nest. Grandpa cuts off the rebellious kids or grand-kids and they make it on their own.
    Good or bad that control power is lost forever.
    Kiss the money making countries of the EU goodbye if that happens.
    Henry Ford and others once had total control over their empire. Then enough became enough and the whole system changed.
    There was a period of time where the revolution certainly hurt the workers but.........

    I think it will settle down as bruised egos get over it as the businesses of making money is the common denominator.
    There is going to be a whole lot of positioning for power. If you know any of these top players you know this is a very nasty game.
    A lot of people are going to get stabbed in the back by those they previously thought friends as the deck gets shuffled.
    Impossible to know now where the wild cards or ace in the hole get played yet.
    Bob

  8. #105
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    Quote Originally Posted by DMF_TomB View Post
    perhaps they should have required a 2/3 majority to vote before leaving.
    .
    when anything is close to 50/50 it become close to a civil war. in the USA the South voted to leave the Union and the North fought one of the most bloody wars in our history to restore the Union.
    Not a valid comparison. The legislators of several southern states voted to secede from the Union which they understood to be within their rights. The issue was decided by force, not by courts of law as has been stated by Justice Antonin Scalia who said the matter had been resolved by the Union victory.

    The issue of states right to secede has been debated since before the Constitution was ratified. This article gives some insight into the complexity of the issue.

    http://www.etymonline.com/cw/secession2.htm

    Quote Originally Posted by DMF_TomB View Post
    all you got to look at is the Ukraine or Yugoslavia or Balkins civil war. modern civil wars in Europe can happen just like Syria and cause millions of people to flee. in the English civil war yes long ago but it was a bloody war. quite a lot of people emigrated to America at the time leaving England. people leave areas that are at war.
    .
    Scotland wanting to leave the UK sounds like the start of a Civil war to me and all for a 52 to 48 vote on staying or leaving the EU
    If by "just like Syria" you mean that the U.S. will arm and train forces to effect "regime change" I don't think that would fly in the UK. As for Scotland wanting to leave starting a civil war I think that is as unlikely as the EU attempting to use force to prevent the UK from leaving it. Scotland was conquered by military force centuries ago and using force to keep them in today would be folly of the worst kind. Most of the modern "civil wars" you mention have been largely provoked by outside forces. At the start of the conflict in the Balkans I saw an interview with a former elected official who claimed the news media reported atrocities that never happened and kept it up until REAL atrocities occurred as groups sought revenge for the fake crimes. I have no doubt he was correct as I have heard of this tactic being used elsewhere in the world.

  9. #106
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scottl View Post
    Any chance we could convince you to move to the EU?

    You'd fit right in with the big government socialist crowd running things.
    Isn't this exactly what the USA first crowd wants for our immigrant population...no amnesty.

  10. #107
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    So, this is probably the same for you yankies as it is for us, but this shows how out of touch .gov is compared to us workers.
    Look at their daily allowances...

    Allowances and expenses claims 215/16 - UK Parliament

    https://www.parliament.uk/documents/...january-V2.pdf

  11. #108
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    double post

  12. #109
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    No. You are completely incorrect.

    The EU has free movement of people and goods. No paperwork.
    EVERYTHING else has paperwork.

    As I said, the EU has some (minor, imho) asinine rules, and many asinine interpretations, with a huge variety of implementation.
    Many EU countries just shrug, and ignore, pretty much 100%, the silly stuff.
    Some implement 100%.
    Most are in-between.

    Biz in Spain will go up, partly, because;
    UK companies will have higher costs, due to the paperwork, and new regs.
    So, UK companies will be less competitive in the EU market.

    Biz in Spain will go down, partly, because;
    The pound goes (way .. ?) down.
    Thus, UK exports are cheaper.
    And of course, more people are out of work, due to the weaker pound.

    Mostly, it´s best to have one set of paperwork jackals, rather than 2-3 layers.

    These are complex issues, of course, with many sides to the story.
    However, starting from economic basics and typical market behaviour is a good start.

    The end result is:
    Most UK people will lose out, usually by quite a bit.
    Some UK businesses are Very Likely to suffer (hospitality for one).
    Some UK businesses are likely to make out greatly.

    UK manufacturing might turn out either way.
    It Depends.

    It is of course completely true that once out of EU, UK can then close off immigration.
    This will have some positive effects, and some negative ones (labour cost).

    Less immigration = more expensive workers.
    More expensive workers = less work (unless workers become more valuable ie more educated.
    I don´t expect it to happen, in the UK.
    Do you ? )

    A Spanish metalworking person makes about the same gross as a UK one.
    At 1/5-1/3 lower cost of living.
    They are usually highly educated (ie engineers in Spain, about 3k€ / month. Used to employ over 10, and have a good wide basis for comparison in the UK, Sweden, Finland)).

    The EU had some net costs to the UK, yes.
    And to Spain, Yes.
    So what ?

    The EU has increased Spains GDP by about 200& in 15 years.
    Paying, say, 10% of this back makes a lot of sense.

    Just like free *high quality* education makes the government investing in it a payback of 250.000 € extra over avg. lifetime of worker, in net increase of income taxes.
    Cost is 50.000 €. Benefit is 250.000 €. Net. 500% win to government managed system.
    Fact.
    Finland.

    Quote Originally Posted by Monarchist View Post
    Uh... yezzzzz.. Getting out from under the imposed EU costs WAS part of the reason for leaving..

    Or are you bitchin' because the *EU* cost will NOT go down, and a biz in Spain is soon going to have to help take up the slack the Brits HAD been paying for?

    And nooo... I do not mean just customs forms, fees, duties, wotever. The whole lot.

    Bill

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  14. #110
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    I don´t like this, but You are completely correct.
    Weaker pound, more people out of work, lower housing cost => bad to most people.

    Very good for manufacturing & export.

    Quote Originally Posted by DMF_TomB View Post
    i am always surprised when they worry about the value of the British pound going down in value.
    .
    in USA i very very very much want the US$ to go down as it increases the price of foreign goods and we get more manufacturing jobs in the USA. only people on welfare worry about they cannot buy cheap Chinese imports as cheaply. get a job is what i would say and buy made in USA.
    .
    it is well known the Chinese deliberately keep their RMB money low so they can increase Chinese manufacturing to the point China easily make 500% more steel than the USA and literally China only one country makes more than 1/2 the total world production of steel now. many are ignorant just how very very big Chinese manufacturing has become.
    .
    the UK steel industry is a classic case where once they were the world number one steel producer and now are so small their is talk of no steel companies maybe left in the UK soon.

  15. #111
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    Quote Originally Posted by hanermo View Post
    ....
    Weaker pound, more people out of work, lower housing cost => bad to most people.
    Very good for manufacturing & export.
    So would not a weaker pound make the price of things from the UK lower to me here?
    In particular does this mean I would shift more of my diamond wheel purchases to my supplier in the UK away from my sources in the US?
    Wouldn't this mean more work for the employees there?
    I know it's not that simple and while very different China has been playing this for a while now.
    Housing is kind of a local thing, not so influenced by your world wide currency unless things really go to poop.

    Many running scared to the exits. If you do have a bit sitting out there panic is the time to make money off the fears.
    I'm don't have much but right now it looks like we made close to $30,000 in 24 hours off the panic Of course I may loose that all next week.

    Now the weekend and "what have we done" worries. Easy going and maybe a bit laid back one can not write off the Brits if a battle ensues.
    If the EU does go after them hard I think popular opinion might change fast and it won't be in favor of more control.
    I see this as a sleepy bear, content to lay and go along with the flow. Now wandering a bit outside it's bounds. Poke this bear with your big stick...........
    One very big friend on the sidelines so far that did not want to see this happen but will respect the vote of the people.

    If you where a EU "big guy" in the game. Economic punishment and come down hard so others won't ever try this or a gentle let down and settle the money markets?
    Think of all the fun you balance here over the weekend in these 800 or so people's positions from clerks, advisors, to leaders.
    One just have to love the chaos.
    Bob

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  17. #112
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    Quote Originally Posted by hanermo View Post
    lower housing cost
    I doubt housing or renting costs will lower.

    With most councils having housing shortages (right to buy,few built since 70s) and investors desperate to buy to-let properties to rent out privately (or more lucratively to councils)... and immigration at government figures of 350,000 per year (although we are giving out National Insurance numbers at a rate of 2.2 million per year....so someones lying)

    The government has realised how much more money landlords are making and have recently announced a series new taxes and tax hikes re property.

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    Quote Originally Posted by hanermo View Post
    I don´t like this, but You are completely correct.
    Weaker pound, more people out of work, lower housing cost => bad to most people.

    Very good for manufacturing & export.
    Wouldn't "Very good for manufacturing & export." mean more jobs? A weaker pound would also mean imports cost more so people would buy more "Made in the UK".

    The UK is too big a market to just be ignored. When all is said and done Brits will have more influence on their own lives - for better and for worse.


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  20. #114
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    Quote Originally Posted by barbter View Post
    So, this is probably the same for you yankies as it is for us, but this shows how out of touch .gov is compared to us workers.
    Look at their daily allowances...

    Allowances and expenses claims 215/16 - UK Parliament

    https://www.parliament.uk/documents/...january-V2.pdf
    Ahh thats costs for total buisness days for the charts period, not per day. Have you priced a rail fair at peak times recently? If you can do london during the working week cheaper im sure they would love to know how?

  21. #115
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scottl View Post

    ... Scotland was conquered by military force centuries ago...
    When was that then? Last I heard they came cap in hand and asked to join the Union because they had bankrupted themselves trying to establish an empire - I think it was in Panama - and failed. Of course, many Scots will tell you that it was all England's fault anyway, especially after a long night watching Braveheart and drinking porage. And don't forget that at the time of the Union, King James VI of Scotland was also King James I of England. As has been observed elsewhere, it was all about the money (and power and influence) not about the ordinary people.

    Goerge

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  23. #116
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    It just gets better and better, Iceland have knocked England out of the European cup,................oh FFS,................. beaten by a country with only 325,000 population to pick a team from.

    Something tells me it's not our week.

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    Cant imagine they are saying "we never thought this could happen"... If it could not happen they would not be voting on it..

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    Quote Originally Posted by Georgineer View Post
    When was that then? Last I heard they came cap in hand and asked to join the Union because they had bankrupted themselves trying to establish an empire - I think it was in Panama - and failed. Of course, many Scots will tell you that it was all England's fault anyway, especially after a long night watching Braveheart and drinking porage. And don't forget that at the time of the Union, King James VI of Scotland was also King James I of England. As has been observed elsewhere, it was all about the money (and power and influence) not about the ordinary people.

    Goerge
    Sigh. Porridge isn't something you drink. None of it would have happened if Elisabeth 1 of England had got herself knocked up. It's NEVER about ordinary people.

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  28. #119
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    Quote Originally Posted by michiganbuck View Post
    Cant imagine they are saying "we never thought this could happen"... If it could not happen they would not be voting on it..
    As I've mentioned earlier if the "exit" crowd had thought they'd win they'd have had a plan ready. There was no Plan A and certainly no B.

    It was a protest vote that backfired.

    It's the same with Trump supporters. If he did win no one has a clue as to what he'd actually do. He doesn't either.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gordon B. Clarke View Post
    Sigh. Porridge isn't something you drink. None of it would have happened if Elisabeth 1 of England had got herself knocked up. It's NEVER about ordinary people.
    Rather if she had been a tad more selective as to by-WHOM she begat her secret kinder...

    But 'ner mind. "More sex, please! We're ENGLISH!"



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