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  1. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by CosmosK View Post

    Their model removes the critical communication path between designer and machinist. Their model also suggests highly trained machinist with very expensive equipment should work for minimum wage or thereabouts and the option to give the work to China is front and center.
    A local company I do work for sends a lot of parts to China. The Chinese NEVER ask for drawings, NEVER.They NEVER ask questions of the designer, they just make the f'ing parts. Somehow the Chinese seem to be able to deliver good parts ontime with zero problems and with the absence of any "critical communication path"

    They did tell me by the time local shops gets around to giving them a quote, the Chinese have already quoted, made and shipped the parts.

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    because they reverse engineered the thing the part goes into and know which dimensions are critical, hence customers have no issues

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    Quote Originally Posted by nateacox View Post
    I would never disclose my personal financial situation on a message board, ..
    I guess my experience with them is quite different..
    Um except for the screenshot you posted Looks like a brag to me. In seriousness, I'm glad it has worked for you. There was another guy on that thread who had a dedicated sales guy sitting in a cube watching the job board all day long and it worked for them. Also, some shops probably have guys sitting around with nothing to do. I understand there are situations it works. Seems to be the exception not the rule.


    Quote Originally Posted by triumph406 View Post
    The Chinese NEVER ask for drawings, NEVER.They NEVER ask questions of the designer, they just make the f'ing parts. Somehow the Chinese seem to be able to deliver good parts ontime with zero problems ..
    I suppose some simple parts can be made without drawings. I've never seen a CAD part that had flatness callouts, etc. in the solid file.

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    Googling Traverse City machine shops turns up two places with an equipment lineup on their websites that seems plausibly consistent with nateacox's claim, but I have to question whether either of those business owners would be posting a bank statement on an internet forum! If he owns the place he'd identify it, and if he works there he's committing a felony.
    And "picking and choosing" jobs with a 3 week lead time doesn't jibe with the anecdotes about Xometry. My instinct tells me the poster's either a shill for Xometry or it's asd9100 back in a different guise.

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    Quote Originally Posted by CosmosK View Post

    I suppose some simple parts can be made without drawings. I've never seen a CAD part that had flatness callouts, etc. in the solid file.
    Apparently the only aspect of a part the Chinese have asked about is confirming whether a hole is tapped or claearnce.

    They seem to be able to make simple and complex parts without drawings, so do I. I just get on and make the parts. I do have the advantage that I assemble the parts I make for the customer, so I can figure out what's important or not in a part. Could you? Or do you need the designer to hold your hand even if you know how it's all assembled?

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    Quote Originally Posted by triumph406 View Post
    Apparently the only aspect of a part the Chinese have asked about is confirming whether a hole is tapped or claearnce.

    They seem to be able to make simple and complex parts without drawings, so do I. I just get on and make the parts. I do have the advantage that I assemble the parts I make for the customer, so I can figure out what's important or not in a part. Could you? Or do you need the designer to hold your hand even if you know how it's all assembled?
    I would say most here can. The issue is how much does that time cost? I'm not going to figure out what tolerance you need for a part unless you're paying for it. I have better things to do with my time and so do the other guys in the shop.

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    If you don't send a toleranced print you can't reject parts for being out of tolerance. Seems a stupid way of doing business.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mhajicek View Post
    If you don't send a toleranced print you can't reject parts for being out of tolerance. Seems a stupid way of doing business.
    It depends on the customer. I guess it also depends on the shop..

    The top "print" is one I got this morning. The bottom is one from a bit ago, it was
    sitting on the bench. And this is when I get prints, a lot of times its just verbal,
    or a line on a shaft that indicates a key, from about "here" to "here". Sometimes its
    just "make me a *thing* that does *this*"...



    He is not my most profitable customer, but he is definitely my favorite. This
    guy can design and see things in his brain that I could never do. And it all
    comes out on a scratch pad... And occasionally on a drafting table (he has 3 of them).
    And he was primarily a machinist for the first half of his life, so he knows how to
    design for simplicity, and how to get the cheapest price.

    Holes and diameters have 3 tolerances. Press, slip, clearance.

    Lengths and distances.. 95% of the time the tolerance is either "It has to fit",
    or "they all just need to be the same". Occasionally the tolerance is "It can't
    wiggle too much".

    Him and his son make some amazing things.... From a mechanical point of view. None of
    their machines cure cancer or put anybody on the moon, but they are cool as hell from
    a process standpoint.

    And its all on yellow pads with no tolerances.

    Onion Bin washing machine.. In process. This thing was HUGE!!!!!! when it was done,
    170 feet long, and all enclosed, and the electrical was just ridiculous.





    And this one, I actually got to go see it in action after the install and during the
    "Tweaking phase".. I should have taken a video, that was far more impressive than
    this one, and there was Red Chile everywhere, I could barely breathe and my eyes
    were watering.. It was awesome and it smelt Sooo... Goood...

    This machine is at the end of the line of the wet chile. It goes through a bunch of
    tanks, gets washed several times, trash taken out, and then gets spread on big drying
    trays that are 3x6 feet, and this machine stacks them on carts, 25 high... Then
    they are rolled off to massive drying tunnels. And then that chile finds its way
    into a bunch of spices that a lot of you have probably bought at the supermarket.




    I've done some really cool stuff for these guys, and I haven't seen a tolerance yet.
    I know this type of business relationship is not typical... But with a good relationship,
    tolerances can go out the window. He says "Its just got to work".. I know *EXACTLY* what
    he needs. I wish every business relationship could be like this one, its just so easy,
    stress free and actually fun.... And I get $$$paid$$$!!!!!! And if you want to know if
    he actually pays? COD... If I want it.. In advance if I'm in a pinch.. I usually just
    save it up and bring him an invoice if I need some money. Best customer EVER!!!! He
    gets the "No BS Discount".

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  12. #69
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    I think that supports my original point, that the relationship and understanding between supplier and client is critical.

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  14. #70
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    Price for XMTR is printing now and telling a story.
    I am away from decent charting software for a bit bit will post progress for this in a week or so.


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