Another Toe Jack

nc5a · Sep 22, 2018

I've made several toe jacks over the years and never had any problems dropping a machine until recently when a relatively light machine slipped off the toe jack. So I decided to build a better one. The hydraulic jack is 3 ton and the shoe is pinned to the top of the jack screw pad which fits in a counter bored hole. The base is 1/2" plate which is really too thick, 3/8" would have been better. The shoe guides are 1/2" mild steel rods. Took about 8 hours to build, not counting painting.

partsproduction · Sep 22, 2018

are the two 90 degree angled parts that do the work heat treated?
It looks very nice.

nc5a · Sep 23, 2018

partsproduction said:
are the two 90 degree angled parts that do the work heat treated?
It looks very nice.

No, they are not heat treated. The heaviest machines I lift weigh about 5000 lbs so the toe sees maybe 2/3 of that weight at most.

thermite · Sep 23, 2018

nc5a said:
I've made several toe jacks over the years and never had any problems dropping a machine until recently when a relatively light machine slipped off the toe jack. So I decided to build a better one. The hydraulic jack is 3 ton and the shoe is pinned to the top of the jack screw pad which fits in a counter bored hole. The base is 1/2" plate which is really too thick, 3/8" would have been better. The shoe guides are 1/2" mild steel rods. Took about 8 hours to build, not counting painting.

Nice enough work. You probably have a good deal more capacity there than needed for your 5,000 lb //2 1/2 ton needs.

However.. the 8-hours you invested really is worth shop-rate - or money for time vs doing something else.

I chickened-out and bought ONE of these Chinese ones (your bottle-jack probably is, as well, anyway?) from a New Jersey source for about $90:

Hydraulic Machine Toe Jack Lift Cylinder 5 Ton Jack Lifting Capacity On Top 5T 723�442�1164 | eBay

Note the rectangular rib on the front of the bottle. Similar goal to your dowel-rods, I presume?

I set it under 4,400 lbs of drill-press. took a lift. Measured the gap.

Then checked it for leak-down each day. Held over half the gap for five days, then I went and bought a twin to it, same test, both OK.

I still mentally de-rate their 5T claim to roughly half, but I don't OWN anything but barely over 2 1/2 tones anyway. 5205 Avoir mill.

Works for me, and they are not all that heavy to move and set.

2CW

Tyrone Shoelaces · Sep 23, 2018

Nice. What we in the trade called a " Cobra's Head ". The home made one has the advantage of getting really near to the ground. That's always a plus.

Regards Tyrone

thermite · Sep 23, 2018

Tyrone Shoelaces said:
Nice. What we in the trade called a " Cobra's Head ". The home made one has the advantage of getting really near to the ground. That's always a plus.

Regards Tyrone

He did wish for 3/8", but I'd call the 1/2" safer.

I could have had those "store boughts" of mine clear down to 3/8" - at roughly triple the cost from a "better" maker - but actually selected 5/8" instead. No need of the last bit of "thin". Reliability and safe reserve was more important.

Growing up around railroad, mill, arsenal, river lock works, mining, rail again, if "a thing" had no grab-holds we just called the welder over and added whatever we needed wherever we needed it.

More often of late, a chain, timbers to or through a hatch, my pry-bars and wedges, always a short ton of shims and grillage in general. Toe jack - pair-of - a handier-than-average luxury. A much-appreciated one, too. But luxury nonetheless.

partsproduction · Sep 23, 2018

The Toejack I bought recently has a 3/4" thick toe. Too often that leaves me trying to find a way to raise the machine high enough to get it under.
I considered milling a short ledge of 1/4" high by 3/4 deep, to allow raising and blocking high enough, and since low, safe enough, for allowing the full 3/4 entry.

thermite · Sep 23, 2018

partsproduction said:
The Toejack I bought recently has a 3/4" thick toe. Too often that leaves me trying to find a way to raise the machine high enough to get it under.
I considered milling a short ledge of 1/4" high by 3/4 deep, to allow raising and blocking high enough, and since low, safe enough, for allowing the full 3/4 entry.

"Lybarger's Corollary" - worse-yet, "Darwinism" - seems to bite any time you get to modifying initially-decent rigging gear. More better to go find one built and TESTED for the purpose.

Simpler to recognize there ain't never been no such animal as a ZERO insertion thickness toe-jack and just augment yer pry bar & wedge collection or "learn the many ways" to get a legitimate, not f**k-me, starter-grip off a feature higher-up on the hull. Or CREATE a feature for the duration of the rig.

This is why my "garage" floor or trolley jacks are easily as useful as the toe jacks.

Among other things, I'm standing further clear when using them, such that risk or not, I have the seriously USEFUL wider field of view and can see any OTHER stuff as the jacking may be affecting.

Even experienced Old Farts can get bitten. Odd creaking noise on one lift? No BIG deal. It needed replaced anyway. But I had driven the top of the Alzmetall AB5/S column drill press several inches through a drywall carport ceiling! THEN I remembered why I had been so anal about making sure it wasn't directly under a truss at the outset!

Similar gain with remoted hydraulics, powered OR manual. User can see better, work from a safer place to perch.

I just don't personally have the need to justify the extra cost and nuisance, current environment. But they can be nice to have for those as do.

Tyrone Shoelaces · Sep 24, 2018

thermite said:
He did wish for 3/8", but I'd call the 1/2" safer.

I could have had those "store boughts" of mine clear down to 3/8" - at roughly triple the cost from a "better" maker - but actually selected 5/8" instead. No need of the last bit of "thin". Reliability and safe reserve was more important.

Growing up around railroad, mill, arsenal, river lock works, mining, rail again, if "a thing" had no grab-holds we just called the welder over and added whatever we needed wherever we needed it.

More often of late, a chain, timbers to or through a hatch, my pry-bars and wedges, always a short ton of shims and grillage in general. Toe jack - pair-of - a handier-than-average luxury. A much-appreciated one, too. But luxury nonetheless.

I once installed a 20 ft table Plano-mill with nothing more that a couple of really big fox wedges and a sledge hammer.

Hammer the wedge in, shim up the bed, knock out the wedge, tighten down the holding down bolts. Try the level, Oh bugger too many shims, release the holding bolts, bang in the wedge again, remove a shim from the pile, knock out the wedge, tighten down again, try the level. Oh bollocks too low on the level now. Start again.

Imagine doing that on a 40 ft bed and two big uprights with shimming points about every 4 ft. It took me about 2 or 3 days to get the machine level and I was pretty tired when I'd finished. It'd kill me to do it now.

Regards Tyrone.

thermite · Sep 24, 2018

Tyrone Shoelaces said:
I once installed a 20 ft table Plano-mill with nothing more that a couple of really big fox wedges and a sledge hammer.

Hammer the wedge in, shim up the bed, knock out the wedge, tighten down the holding down bolts. Try the level, Oh bugger too many shims, release the holding bolts, bang in the wedge again, remove a shim from the pile, knock out the wedge, tighten down again, try the level. Oh bollocks too low on the level now. Start again.

Imagine doing that on a 40 ft bed and two big uprights with shimming points about every 4 ft. It took me about 2 or 3 days to get the machine level and I was pretty tired when I'd finished. It'd kill me to do it now.

Regards Tyrone.

Got all-too-many of those tee-shirts in the ragbag.

It wasn't ever "fun".

It WAS a LOT easier to take as a younger person, stronger, more flexible, hungrier, and being PAID for it, rather than it stealing the only things of real value Old Fart has-beens have left.

The limited flexibility in old sinews, vanishing still-effective mass of muscle, and our precious and progressively diminishing TIME!

Hence my overkill on present-day rigging "arsenal".

If old Age and Treachery will always beat youth and skill, old age, treachery, skill, and the rigging kit to go with it is at least a deck stacked in our favour!

gbent · Sep 24, 2018

The splitting wedges pipe welders use work well for raising machines when there is no room for a fork tip or a rigging bar. Readily available and cheap. Buy them in pairs and they can serve as adjustable height blocking as well. The splitting wedges may well be what Tyrone calls a "fox wedge".

thermite · Sep 24, 2018

gbent said:
The splitting wedges pipe welders use work well for raising machines when there is no room for a fork tip or a rigging bar. Readily available and cheap. Buy them in pairs and they can serve as adjustable height blocking as well. The splitting wedges may well be what Tyrone calls a "fox wedge".

English hat, on. A precise language at heart.

Fox Wedges | Klein Tools - For Professionals since 1857

Even Home Depot calls a fox wedge a fox wedge. That part may be an accident though!
Grainger puts 'em in with flange and set-up wedge nomenclature, but it's Klein's same product line on their page.

I only used timbering wedges 'coz they were "already there" and nice and wide. They are actually too steep a slope for what Tyrone - or I, if I needed them that often - would have wanted as Daily Drivers. The "Fox" is small and sneaky-clever critter capable of getting into places where you'd not expect it possible. So, too, fox wedges.

DMF_TomB · Sep 24, 2018

grippers got a hardened knurl pattern that bites in less likely to slip off . some are a diamond grit plated on of about 100 grit. the carbide or hardened steel ones are usually coarser
.
Fixed/Non-Adjustable - Fixtureworks

thermite · Sep 24, 2018

DMF_TomB said:
grippers got a hardened knurl pattern that bites in less likely to slip off . some are a diamond grit plated on of about 100 grit. the carbide or hardened steel ones are usually coarser
.
Fixed/Non-Adjustable - Fixtureworks

???

Mought be in the wrong cell on your notorious spreadsheet for either of toe-jacks or wedges, there, DMF. Hard part is getting the buggers IN THERE.

DMF_TomB · Sep 24, 2018

thermite said:
???

Mought be in the wrong cell on your notorious spreadsheet for either of toe-jacks or wedges, there, DMF. Hard part is getting the buggers IN THERE.

.
they make all types of grippers. many get in relatively tight spots.
.
many a jack i have seen with a type of gripper built into or on the end so it dont slip off as easy

Matt_Maguire · Sep 24, 2018

Nice jack. Used to be you could find the heavy built porto-power & blackhawk jacks with all sorts of cool tools to screw on them. Mine will get under 1/2” with the cap off & a piece of sheet metal under the ram, or screw the cap on the ram & spread something (needs almost an inch of space that way). Harder to find these days.

I’ve heard the wedges called set-up & flange type too. My armstrong & williams are about 5/8” per foot, the beryllium ones about 3/4” per foot. I used them more for part stabilizing & set ups or fabrication than anything else. For tight flanges or gaps it's a brick chisel for me...

Good luck,
Matt

thermite · Sep 24, 2018

Matt_Maguire said:
Nice jack. Used to be you could find the heavy built porto-power & blackhawk jacks with all sorts of cool tools to screw on them. Mine will get under 1/2” with the cap off & a piece of sheet metal under the ram, or screw the cap on the ram & spread something (needs almost an inch of space that way). Harder to find these days.

I’ve heard the wedges called set-up & flange type too. My armstrong & williams are about 5/8” per foot, the beryllium ones about 3/4” per foot. I used them more for part stabilizing & set ups or fabrication than anything else. For tight flanges or gaps it's a brick chisel for me...

Good luck,
Matt

Been using brickery stuff for years, too, but s'pose its time and past the time to put by a set of the proper fox wedges.

Oh, well.... Keeps me out of the pubs and brothels those chronic little packratism spends..

Tyrone Shoelaces · Sep 25, 2018

Matt_Maguire said:
Nice jack. Used to be you could find the heavy built porto-power & blackhawk jacks with all sorts of cool tools to screw on them. Mine will get under 1/2” with the cap off & a piece of sheet metal under the ram, or screw the cap on the ram & spread something (needs almost an inch of space that way). Harder to find these days.

I’ve heard the wedges called set-up & flange type too. My armstrong & williams are about 5/8” per foot, the beryllium ones about 3/4” per foot. I used them more for part stabilizing & set ups or fabrication than anything else. For tight flanges or gaps it's a brick chisel for me...

Good luck,
Matt

I've used all sorts of wedges like those over the years. The ones I used on the Plano-mill bed were like your two big ones on the left, only a bit bigger. For separating gearbox covers I used a good painters wallpaper scraper ground to a nice sharp edge.

Regards Tyrone.

pressbrake1 · Sep 25, 2018

Tyrone, you plano mill story gives me nasty flash backs to a horrible linear transfer machine I installed back in the late nineties. It had no jacking bolts for no good reason other than laziness on the manufacturers part and the customer was too mean to buy those one piece leveling feet

thermite · Sep 25, 2018

pressbrake1 said:
Tyrone, you plano mill story gives me nasty flash backs to a horrible linear transfer machine I installed back in the late nineties. It had no jacking bolts for no good reason other than laziness on the manufacturers part and the customer was too mean to buy those one piece leveling feet

LOL! Show him the periodic table of the elements.

Suggest you can simply float the IRON bugger if he'd rather pay for enough tonnage of MERCURY and deal with the regulations and the side effects!

Sometimes a truly insane alternative, delivered deadpan-serious, as with Solomon's offer to slice a live child into two dead halves - can SCARE an asshole into shitting a budget as the lower-risk move!

WTH are these folks thinking - or drinking - or maybe SMOKING - anyway?

Another Toe Jack

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