(Desperately) Need Some Advice/Help
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  1. #1
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    Default (Desperately) Need Some Advice/Help

    So I have no brain and decided to bid on a machine that I can't afford to move. It's an "old" 1985 Matsuura MC-500VS, apparently in great condition, 20 station toolchanger, coolant system, everything you could ever hope for in a machine you'd keep in your garage.

    It's 107" long, 88" wide, and 98" tall. It weights "only" 8,100 pounds. Now here's the real problem: I have to move it 140 miles. In this case that ends up being a 2 and a half hour drive.

    Here's my thinking so far, let me know how this all sounds:

    1. I'm going to rent a flatbed that can handle it because I imagine it's cheaper than getting someone to drive it 2.5hrs.

    2. The rigger on site wants to charge $500 to pick it up and put it on a flatbed truck. I'm going to rent a forklift and try to do it myself instead because I feel like half a grand is a lot to ask for when all he's gotta do is lift it up and set it back down. I'm going to rent and return the forklift from the same town the machine is in. Am I right in saying 500 is a lot?

    3. Rent another forklift back home and get the machine in my garage, although I am really considering getting experts to do this part. What can I expect it to cost to hire people to move a machine off a truck in my driveway into my garage?

    I think Ive got it all figured out, right? It can't be all that complicated... Why are auction bids legally binding? I'm an idiot, isn't there some leeway for idiots?

    Edit: forgot to mention I'm 20, in college to be a physicist, and quite frankly dont know a damn thing about moving these machines. I can run them and have a good amount if machining experience but not this kind of stuff. In other words, treat me like an idiot, dont skip over details.

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    That is a fair bit, recently a friend paid $650 worthless Australian dollars to move a 9000 pound mill about 40 minutes, that included skating out, pickup and skating in.

    That was with a flatbed with a knuckle crane on it.

    Moving machines is hard and dangerous work. Get a professional.

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    Ripoff merchants are a dime a dozen........crazy prices to move stuff....wont catch me paying em.

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    This is going in a garage? You have the clearance, foundation, 3-phase voltage and pneumatic lines to run such a machine?

    In the rip-off Capital of the World, Ontario, we cannot rent a forklift in the GTA for less than $200 “delivery” each way plus rental fees. $500 is par for the course. No auction company in this country will allow a person to move a machine without minimum $3M in third-party liability insurance and a policy that explicitly indemnifies the auction company.

    You can be a cheapskate and set yourself up for significant liability or you can recognize that this business requires one to pay to play.

    Alternatively, tell the auction house to pound salt. You’re an idiot (your words not mine) for bidding, and getting involved in something you clearly do not have the resources to undertake. At least you realize this. What’s the auction co going to do? A student, no wages to garnish, no assets presumably. Be polite and tell them you can’t complete the transaction. It’d be an exercise in futility for them to litigate should it go that far.

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    Now here s a strange thing,I can call a scrapyard,and they will get a subbie to move a derelict 50 ton machine for maybe $200 knocked off the scrap metal payment..........I ask the dipstick doing the move ,what his rates are for his float and crane....he quotes some insane price......a week later he s back looking for work.

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    So you have no idea how to move it yourself, yet you believe 500 is too much for a possible expert to move it and you will rent a lift and do it yourself.

    If you dont understand how to get it to your shop, how do you ever expect to run it.

    Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk

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    I just spent a good bit of time trying to figure something similar out, for a machine that weight about the same. I don't think you can get away from paying the $500 to get it loaded by the auction riggers. The only option you would have is to contact the auctioneer, and see if there are any other riggers or options. I have had good luck before doing this and there are maintenance guys from the plant (or even the auction company) that would pick it up and load it for free, but only when the riggers weren't there (since they get mad if they do it). However, this was only for much smaller stuff (like a 2,500lb surface grinder a few weeks ago).

    To pick that up, I'm guessing you'll need a much larger forklift (probably a 12,000lb rated one), and at least around here, those rent about $400 for 4 hours plus delivery, so you won't be saving any money. Also, I sure wouldn't want to learn how to operate a forklift with an 8,500lb object. If it makes you feel any better, I was quoted $700 to prep and load a similar size mill, which I also thought was high, but was going to pay if the machine went for the right price.

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    500 sounds reasonable to me. You might tempt down him with cash. And I dont think you will be less than that DIY, if that is even a possibility, some auctions require liability insurance for rigging. Some dont.

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    Jump straight to the second part of #3. Hire an expert.

    Tell him you need to move a machine into your garage. And tell him the machine is 140 miles away and he needs to go get it first. Sounds like a simple day job for a rigger. It'll be inside when you get back from class.

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    Quote Originally Posted by CatMan View Post
    Jump straight to the second part of #3. Hire an expert.

    Tell him you need to move a machine into your garage. And tell him the machine is 140 miles away and he needs to go get it first. Sounds like a simple day job for a rigger. It'll be inside when you get back from class.
    Yeah, I agree with this, especially since its relatively close. Look for riggers, and also check with towing and recovery services. Lots of them are familiar with and move machines all the time, so you should have options. Loading/unloading aside, moving an 8,500 lb machine is not trivial. By the time you factor in a heavy enough trailer, you'll be towing 11,000 pounds or so. Nothing that can't be done, but if you don't have experience hauling heavier loads, again, not the time to learn.

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    If I have learned one thing by being one - the world has no sympathy for idiots.

    $500 is reasonable - think of it as helping the rigger at the auction put food on the table for his kids and if the forklift doesn't break down any time soon, perhaps he can save a little to help put his kid through college.

    We recently purchased a 72,000 lb Butler planer mill for $9k . . . by the time we have it up and running in our shop we will add another zero or more to the purchase price.

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    Well, sounds like I know what to so. Don't be a bigger idiot; get professionals. If I can afford to move it, I'll do it, if not the auction house can take my money and I can kiss it goodbye.

    As much as I would hate to throw out a deal (and money) like this, it wouldnt be the end of the world if the auction company just took my money: I have $4 on the machine, and by the looks of it that isn't going to change in the next few days (the auction has been up for a while already, plenty of other machines going for tens of thousands, dynamic close so no reason to try and snipe, I think I'll actually end up spending 4 dollars on the machine itself, plus change for the auction house).

    But what about driving it? I understand that it would be safer, but my uncle has plenty of experience with trucking (albeit with Pepsi, not machinery), so I'm still considering renting a truck for the day instead of paying a bunch of guys a hundred an hour each for a few hours to drive it. Once it's back home I'll have another rigging team get it inside.

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    Quote Originally Posted by UselessPhysicist View Post
    Well, sounds like I know what to so. Don't be a bigger idiot; get professionals. If I can afford to move it, I'll do it, if not the auction house can take my money and I can kiss it goodbye.

    As much as I would hate to throw out a deal (and money) like this, it wouldnt be the end of the world if the auction company just took my money: I have $4 on the machine, and by the looks of it that isn't going to change in the next few days (the auction has been up for a while already, plenty of other machines going for tens of thousands, dynamic close so no reason to try and snipe, I think I'll actually end up spending 4 dollars on the machine itself, plus change for the auction house).

    But what about driving it? I understand that it would be safer, but my uncle has plenty of experience with trucking (albeit with Pepsi, not machinery), so I'm still considering renting a truck for the day instead of paying a bunch of guys a hundred an hour each for a few hours to drive it. Once it's back home I'll have another rigging team get it inside.
    I wouldn't be so sure on no one beating you. I've sweated a few like that myself, but in the end, someone outbid me. Some people don't bother to read the fine print about the dynamic close, and will still bid with 10 seconds to go thinking they will get it. Then when the time extends (and I bid higher), bid again at the last second thinking this time I'll get it.

    I'd still get quotes on what it would cost to have a rigger pick it up and deliver it. You might find out that they have a minimum price, and it will be cheaper or about the same to just have them pick it up.

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    If it were me, I would call the auction house and tell them I made a mistake. Let them keep the money bid. Maybe even pay a return fee. But I would not bring it home. A far better loss to eat than the cost of moving that hulk.

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    Pay to have it trucked. Right now in our part of the world, for that size machine, it is around $2 per mile. For $280 or $560 you can't even buy the chains you need to legally secure it to the trailer. Not to mention rental of trailer and truck. If your father has a class A CDL, he would be legal to drive the truck and trailer combination. Or if the police that stop you aren't super dicks, you might be legal to enough to drive that truck and trailer combination (subject to their interpretation of the 10k combination limit). But without own the equipment and having the experience, you aren't going to come out on top hauling your own 8100 lb VMC 140 miles.

    Look at it this way, if you really are getting the mill for $4 and you have to spend $1500 moving it ... you are still getting a mill for $1504. If you move it yourself and dump it on the side of the road or your driveway, you'll be in for more than $1500.

    But you won't get the mill for $4. Unprepared scrap steel aint worth shit right now ... but it is worth more than $4/8100 per pound right now. Local scrapie will buy it and you won't have to worry about it.

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    If you get it for $4, just cough up the $$ needed for a rigger, sounds like a pretty cheap education to me.

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    I am going to throw my vote for what others have suggested — tell the auction house you made a mistake and don’t pick up the machine. You mention that you are in college and 20 years old. I can surmise that you are an undergrad and not in grad school. As you know, a BS in physics is useless and you will need to get a PhD. Unless you are bringing the machine to your parents house, you will need to move this machine in a couple years time. (And you likely also know that staying at your home institution is not good either).

    If you decide to bring the machine home, I echo what others have said about going with professional riggers to bring it home. It’s a small price to pay when you don’t have experience moving these kind of things. They are big, heavy and can kill you if mistakes are made.

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    What makes you think you can move an 8,000# machine safely without any machinery moving experience? If you can't afford to have it professionally rigged, let it go. I don't understand people that don't respect a professional's equipment and experience just because it is a blue collar job. Just let someone else snag it. At 8100# it is worth $400-$600 depending on location just for the scrap metal, let alone the control electronics. Your $4 will get outbid, trust me. Somebody with their own forklift and trailer would bid at least $200, even if the thing didn't run.

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  26. #19
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    There has been many good machines fail to get bids and meets the fate of the scraper, all because it cost more to move than it is worth.

    I know $500 sounds like a lot, but as a rigger myself, I'm not sure I'd do it any cheaper. I might cut you a deal for $300-$400 if I was already there and it was easy to get it out and get it loaded. You aren't going to be able to rent a lift and do it yourself for less, if they would even let you without the proper insurance.

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    Looks like two choices: let it go or pay for professional rigging. Itll be hard to let it go, since I've always wanted a CNC mill, but if I can't do it, I can't do it.

    Also, lighten up with the whole "I'm stupid" thing. I said it in a less sincere way than many seem to be taking it. I figured between my intuition and formal training/education in mechanical engineering and physics I'd have a decent grip of what this all would cost and what it would entail, but the world surprises me again in being nothing like how I envisioned it. How odd!

    As for my studies, which a few people brought up; as much as I love physics and seem to have a natural knack for it and math, I hate paperwork and the school environment in general and plan to drop out and be a machinist, possibly in tool and die. I simply cannot get enough of machinework, I love it, and it pays well enough for me.

    But, I'm 20, so who knows what I'll end up doing.

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