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Is this electric pallet jack defective ? (videos)

Milacron

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I hope the problem is obvious from the videos but if not I can explain further.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u_tVZhhngfg


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dk8uRFL7Qc4

The jack has 2.5 hours on it. Pot acceleration curves look ok on the tech's computer. Still under warranty but the dealer tech can't improve it. They don't know what to do, higher up's talking like that is just the way that model is. I find that very hard to believe. What do you think ?
 
Looks like its over engineered, low speed for manoeuvering, flat out for, err, flat out. Could take some getting use to. Perhaps its to simplify/cheapen the electronics? One would have thought that you can get at least a 50 :1 current control with switching circuits. Is there a proper gear box to help "unstick" the machine with a heavy load, perhaps there is electronic transformer tap changing going on to give you the same effect.
Frank
 
Perhaps its to simplify/cheapen the electronics?
That is my impression but the abrupt slow to mid speed jump couldn't possibly be "normal" I have an older version of this same make and model pallet jack, which accelerates smooth as silk. When I point that out, the response is always "well, that one has a different controller on it".... to which I'm thinking...so the deal is the pallet truck was really nice in 2006 but by 2012 let's make it worse ??
 
I really think you have got a lemon there, it is a new purchase with hardly any hours on it, I think you want a refund or a replacement truck. After all if the older one accelerates smoothly, the newer one should accelerate smoothly. It could cause an accident, it is not "fit for purpose", bounce it back to the supplier and let them take it up with the dealer.
 
I really think you have got a lemon there, it is a new purchase with hardly any hours on it, I think you want a refund or a replacement truck. After all if the older one accelerates smoothly, the newer one should accelerate smoothly. It could cause an accident, it is not "fit for purpose", bounce it back to the supplier and let them take it up with the dealer.
It really is a bit dangerous sometimes even with an experienced operator such as myself....I can't imagine a newbie using it like it is. So far the dealer refuses to take it back, proclaiming it "the way they all are" The manufacturer, although German based, is in Dallas, TX but impossible to get anyone on the line. A conference call with the head office of the dealer and the local tech was supposed to involve someone from Jungheinrich in TX on Wednesday but even then no one from TX showed up for the call !

So, yesterday I made the videos so they could see what is going on with their own eyes...no response yet.
 
Just do the demo over again with a person near the side so you have to slowly turn away from them. Then as it jumps speed run into their leg. Can they see a lawsuit if they all drive this way? That claim is no longer working for Toyota.
Bill D.
 
I've ran a few jacks ( not that brand ) and they didn't work like that.
If they don't have another one local for you to try, maybe they can put you in contact
with another customer that has one...see if their's sucks also.
David
 
I've ran a few jacks ( not that brand ) and they didn't work like that.
If they don't have another one local for you to try, maybe they can put you in contact
with another customer that has one...see if their's sucks also.
Besides this one, I have three Clark 6K, one BT 6.5K, one CAT WR6000 6K and two Jungheinrich EJE 4K electric pallet jacks. The Clarks and the BT no longer have good batteries, but when they did they were smooth as silk in operation. The CAT WR6000 is really a Jungheinrich and the older one I referred to that runs good. One of the EJE's is brand new also and runs great, no problems. ONLY this ECR 327 runs like this.

Of course when I point this out, the same response "well yes, but the the ECR 327 has a different controller !" A bit like saying "well yes, but those all have good controllers and this new one has a crappy controller !" and that will somehow satisfy me...:drink:

There is not another one "local" to try and suspect they wouldn't tell me about it even if there was.

Having said all that I can see that maybe there could be some guys moving produce or other palletized goods at breakneck speed from warehouse to truck and vise versa that might not care if their pallet jack was like this. But really I think even they would care if it was this bad, as the thing can catch you off guard with such unexpected sudden speed increases.
 
Meh, so I see that you're not quite happy with the ergonomics of industrial material handling equipment Dungheinrich ECR 327 pallet jack? I don't know much about them or the type of controllers they use, but I wonder if there are different types tailored to specific applications. For example, maybe one industry likes dual low speed, then distantly different cruising speed. It could be that you purchased a model that was outside of its intended user which I would partially blame the sales rep if it was their advise or it could be less than good design from the manufacturer. But if Dungheinrich equipment has characteristics different and can catch common operators off guard,difference is too great between unacceptably production vs too fast, it can be an industrial safety issues can results in your DART going up, trouble with the OSHA compliance, missed days, and such.
 
It likely has a generic controller that can be used in multiple devices.

Likely has a gain adjustment for the accel curve to determine how the motor reacts to conttol.

Could be a software issue where it is crawl and fast.

Either way no good.

Easy way here is have a sales rep from a competetor come in and try to sell you theirs.

Ask them about regulations about this and have them show you the documentation that indicates yours is wrong.

Nothing drives them like a possible sale...

If yours is not legal based on what sales guy presents and you confirm then advise you will file paperwork to those responsible for manufactur of these things.
 
Easy way here is have a sales rep from a competetor come in and try to sell you theirs.

Ask them about regulations about this and have them show you the documentation that indicates yours is wrong.

Nothing drives them like a possible sale...
I couldn't do that in good conscience as I have no intention of buying another new one. Even if I did get refunded on this one next time around I'd buy a good used one. Either that or just buy a new battery for one of the Clark's I already have. The only reason I bought this one the dealer supposedly got in a special order from the factory and it was over $2000 less than normal price. Maybe they got the special deal because the factory unloaded some lemons...who knows.

I so rarely buy any machinery new it is ironic the one time I do I get burned. Who would have figured even with 1 year warranty total and 2 years on traction* I still can't get a problem fixed...amazing isn't it ?

*Purchase date was August 2013.
 
Just tell them you had your lawyer in to video the machine, and while demoing when it jumped it ran over him, that'll get there attention.
That would be counter productive because it would be obvious I wasn't telling the truth.
 
A "jump" in speed seems like a discontinuity in the command signal (the pot connected to the handle), or in the speed sensing mechanism. I suspect that it's the speed sensor, if the command signal and speed as acquired look good to the tech. If you've schematics and can find the speed sensor and can hook up a readout (voltmeter or frequence meter, I guess), it would be interesting to see if the sensor circuit shows the jump in speed you experience.

But it does seem that the Jungheinrich unit is not of very high quality, and the service you are getting is poor. If you were a piker, one might dismiss this, but you're not exactly a neophyte in the way machines work. Soo... If it's not the speed sensor, call up the sales guy and tell him you intend to return it. See what happens.
 
RTFM...
The stupid suggestion...

What does the owner's manual say?

If it does have a speed change then you woukd think the marketing folks would be sure to make it a "feature" in the manual and brag about how good it is.

The operators manual ahoukd be very specific regarding the safe ooeration of the speed control.

It could have both "creep" and "travel" modes with poor transition between them, this should be adjustable if it is the issue.
 
Never seen anything like that. I'd go and test a new one at a dealer or the factory if there's one local enough and see if it behaves the same.
 
Never seen anything like that. I'd go and test a new one at a dealer or the factory if there's one local enough and see if it behaves the same.
There isn't one at the dealer anymore (140 mile round trip). The nearest one I know of is at the dealer corporate headquarters, which is 600 mile round trip. The factory is in Houston, TX way too far away. There could be one at a nearby packing house pushing produce around right now but no way for me to find out.

Speaking of the factory, it really comes down to the factory on this. The dealer has tried to fix it a few times, done all they know to do. Unlike a Fanuc CNC tech for example, who might bring $20,000 worth of boards with him specific to your control so he can plug in the ones he think might fix the problem, apparently the forklift dealers are only compensated for parts after they can prove the machine needed said part.

So the dealer is reluctant to toss in a new controller for example because they would then be out two or three thousand bucks for that controller if that didn't fix the problem.....that they cannot return or be compensated for. So the manufacturer doesn't want to take responsibility as they remain hidden behind a wall of bureaucracy, and the dealer has push back due to fears of loosing money on an expensive part on a machine they barely made any profit on in the first place. That's no excuse of course but that's all I can figure as to why this is so hard to resolve.

Another aspect is probably my situation as a customer. If I was a larger company buying or leasing many material handling items from the dealer they would probably have offered to take this one back and furnish me with a Linde or better jack many months ago. But they see a smaller concern not so likely to buy or lease much more in the future and thus are not so inspired.

That's no excuse of course but that's all I can figure as to why this is so hard to resolve. What they probably don't realize is when wronged I can be a rather persistant cuss and the negative internet SEO that will result from this controversy once names are named will effect bottom lines for years way more than the cost of this pallet jack.

As to comparing to another one, below is link to a current ad I ran across via search engine on this model. Notice the second bullet point... "Seamless acceleration...."....mine is the polar opposite of that.

http://www.tri-liftnj.com/palletmovers/ecr-327.html

Here's video that shows one in action... seems to be smooth in the video*

http://www.brainshark.com/mcfa/vu?pi=zGHz9NCpjz7jG1z0

Although the below video at first is rather silly, showing trucks running around sped up by the camera, at 00:52 there is a brief glimpse of this model electric pallet jack in action at normal speed.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JDEhEC0nF1I


Another factory video...

http://www.jungheinrich-lift.com/_j...e-ecr-327336-electric-end-rider-pallet-truck/

==============================

*That video reminds me of a point I forgot about until now. The video is showing the jack with a load on it...possibly the maximum load of around 6,000 lbs. When my jack has a load the acceleration situation is even worse still ! The reason is with the added weight there is more inertia and therefore the coasting time is increased. So, with a load there is still the sudden acceleration but when one backs off to slow it down it tends to coast longer before slowing down, thus being even more difficult to control and even more dangerous. I should probably make a third video with a load on the jack to demonstrate that but I've wasted so much time on this thing already it is beyond ridiculous.
 
You can always get an industrial accident attorney to write the dealer CC manufacturer a letter addressing your concern requesting written response to the behavior of the forklift. Obviously include the link to video. If it isn't normal and they don't address it, then that's a sign of failure to address warranty concerns. If they provide a written response that its normal, there's at least evidence if there's an accident and defer injury claims back to them.

If what is being said is valid, then how they handle it often depends on who says it. This could cost a couple hundred however.

Inability of dealer techs to diagnose a problem due to fear of not getting paid for unnecessary repair is not an excuse for not repairing it.
 
Have you paid for it? If it is on HP I would get your lawyer to write to the company detailing the fault, telling them that you "reject" the product, and it is available for collection at your premises, and you require a full refund plus compensation for time wasted etc. I would also send an email to the parent company or at the very least the US HQ. This IS a FAULT. This IS DANGEROUS. If one of your employees has an accident with this truck you can bet your life that OSHA will make YOU responsible.
 








 
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