Fosdick radial drill move - Page 2
Close
Login to Your Account
Page 2 of 4 FirstFirst 1234 LastLast
Results 21 to 40 of 70
  1. #21
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    Virginia
    Posts
    28,849
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    7561
    Likes (Received)
    8958

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Gebhart View Post
    The "Ell" to me looks to be a factory accessory. Looks to similar to the base to be made but will look into it more. I think there are 2 bolts on the end into the floor. There are 4 bolts that bolt into the side of the base. The T slots are all packed full of junk that is where I am going to start. Will probably pull the table and the "Ell" off just to help with moving. I have some 6x6 material that I was going to use for cribbing for the arm.
    Pulling things off a radial does not necessarily "help" with moving.
    Delivery end, you'll need to be able to set it down and park it in a stable manner.


    It is pretty "standard" that anchoring bolts into the 'crete are waaaaay stouter than most any other machine-tool, and now and then there is a not-obvious extra set. They are sooo heavy that more than once one has been rigged, lifted, and has taken a right serious chunk out of the 'crete slab under it up in the air WITH it.

    The tension-strength of 'crete not being its best feature, and the radial so heavy?
    The hook doesn't always even much notice the modest extra strain until it cracks loose like a cannon-shot. Bounce may ensue? Bounce is ALWAYS bad cess.

    OTOH, they are dreadfully notorious for tipping-over when not carefully prepped and moved. These ain't yer Grand Dad's gate-arm Walker-Turner mass-producing plywood birdhouse entry-holess. They are HEAVY.

    So... that sort of mishap usually breaks a major casting. At which point, the value already as unappreciated as it is?

    You may have a scrap disposal challenge rather than a right USEFUL machine-tool.

    Plan well. Triple check. Be extra careful. They are AWKWARD sunsobeeches.

  2. #22
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    Houston Texas
    Posts
    7
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    0
    Likes (Received)
    21

    Default

    When we bought our big Carlton to go in our new shop, it came in with the arm all the way down and secured by a chain to the table. They used a large fork truck to unload it and set it in place.

    https://www.practicalmachinist.com/v...&thumb=1&stc=1
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails 92a441fb-cde5-49f6-8b98-1f0af7825b67.jpg  

  3. #23
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Location
    California, Central Coast
    Posts
    4,041
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    2226
    Likes (Received)
    1589

    Default

    In another thread it was mentioned a good way to hold the arm and head in place is to put a threaded stud in a tee slot with a lock nut on top to lock it in position. The head is then lowered so a drill chuck in the spindle can grab onto the stub bolted to the table, this keeps the arm from swinging and the head from sliding with no chain damage or chance of coming loose.

  4. #24
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    Virginia
    Posts
    28,849
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    7561
    Likes (Received)
    8958

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Rob F. View Post
    In another thread it was mentioned a good way to hold the arm and head in place is to put a threaded stud in a tee slot with a lock nut on top to lock it in position. The head is then lowered so a drill chuck in the spindle can grab onto the stub bolted to the table, this keeps the arm from swinging and the head from sliding with no chain damage or chance of coming loose.
    Sounds sweet in theory.

    But rigging and transport loads are not always "normal" loads. Worst-case should be taken as a given in yer planning.

    So yah might want to consider just how much force the mass of that arm and the drill head machinery ON it can apply to one stud off one poor Cast Iron Tee-slot and a single Tee-nut ...writ small and "localized", stress-wise. And the chuck, not direct MT shank?

    ... vs, for example any old recycled tire or combination-off ..that is GOING to flex and damp and cushion any and all shock loads by its/their very nature.

    Sometimes "ugly" can be proven to be useful?

    Or at least let me keep a Wife onside, I don't screw up the perception of meself as "useful" TOO damned badly nor often....


  5. Likes tdmidget liked this post
  6. #25
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Country
    AUSTRALIA
    Posts
    2,588
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    10
    Likes (Received)
    804

    Default

    Put your trust in chain.....IMHO,you will do everything right the second one you move.Hopefully.

  7. #26
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    Virginia
    Posts
    28,849
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    7561
    Likes (Received)
    8958

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by john.k View Post
    Put your trust in chain.....IMHO,you will do everything right the second one you move.Hopefully.
    Too true. Nuthin' says yah cannot wrap its inherent hardness in cheap arse recycled rubber doormats.

    One thing for sure.. patient sawing of a sharp edge on even rather stout lifting straps CAN cut them. Cheap-arse thin ratchet straps not much more than a cross-eyed look, sideways and they can be GONE in a New York Minute and at full highway speeds.
    Even stout Polyrope is safer.

    Chain on the other hand?

    Steel.

    It sorta "fights back" at anything wants to walk a sharpish edge through it. Don't bet on it losing that fight, either. That'll make yah more keerful about yer padding, too!

    Cheap enough, chain is. Just buy it by the pail, two most-useful sizes.

    Time yah cut and add fittings as required? Not a huge spend, simply because it's all re-usable and re-configurable, so your needs are covered for long years if not decades. Rust? Right in your face where yah can SEE it. And/or run a favorite chain into a bucket of sand and and roll it about, lay an eyeball on watcha got left - or not.

    Wire rope can be too sneaky for my trust. I don't use it often enough to deal with the overhead of condition checking.

  8. #27
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Location
    California, Central Coast
    Posts
    4,041
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    2226
    Likes (Received)
    1589

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by thermite View Post
    Sounds sweet in theory.

    But rigging and transport loads are not always "normal" loads. Worst-case should be taken as a given in yer planning.

    So yah might want to consider just how much force the mass of that arm and the drill head machinery ON it can apply to one stud off one poor Cast Iron Tee-slot and a single Tee-nut ...writ small and "localized", stress-wise. And the chuck, not direct MT shank?
    Quote Originally Posted by john.k View Post
    Put your trust in chain.....

    I tried to find the old post that talked about this. I remember that post mentioning that the tee slot pin was there to just make sure nothing moved. All locks would be locked down but if one tried to slip a little the pin would keep it from doing so. Kind of a double safety, for when moving in the shop with forklift etc.

    To transport on the truck, yes chains are the only way to go. I must have 250' of transport chains here between the 5/16 and 3/8, as well as 100+ feet of 3/8 lifting chain in misc slings. Plenty of non graded farmer/logger chain as well. Might be 500' in all.
    I love the chains for all the reasons mentioned. A small cement mixer with sand & gravel in it does wonders for cleaning old chains. One at a time so if they tangle up in there it is easier to undo them.
    Thinking about it I only have 5 or 6 binders.

  9. #28
    Join Date
    May 2019
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    Pennsylvania
    Posts
    13
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    0
    Likes (Received)
    0

    Default

    With all the info for loading and transporting I feel confident that I can do it safely. Unloading it is now proving to the new problem. I do not have a crane or for that mater any lifting device to pick it off the trailer. My original thought was to use a tilt trailer but am now very much second guessing that approach. I am finding the cost of the machine is the least costly part of buying one. I am starting to consider taking the machine apart and while it is apart restoring (paint checking ways etc.) so it is ready for service when I need it. Thank you all again on all the very valuable information that yous have gave me.

  10. #29
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Location
    California, Central Coast
    Posts
    4,041
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    2226
    Likes (Received)
    1589

    Default

    Get a drop deck trailer, some rollers (pipe) under it and it will roll right out. Rental places have them, might need to call around.
    Here is one brand if your not familiar:
    Tandem Axle HGL | Drop Deck Depot

  11. #30
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    Kansas
    Posts
    7,697
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    459
    Likes (Received)
    3620

    Default

    I don't know of any drop decks rated for a 16,500# load.

    Unloading will want either a forklift or a crane. A forklift can spot the drill in it's final home.

  12. #31
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Location
    California, Central Coast
    Posts
    4,041
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    2226
    Likes (Received)
    1589

    Default

    Probably right on the 16k weight. I got mixed up with the other thread donie started with a lighter machine, 6000lbs? A landol would be next cheapest way, "if" the trailer could be backed right to, or at least close to the final home. This could avoid additional unloading equipment.
    Slide drill right off the back...? Carefully of course

  13. #32
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    Virginia
    Posts
    28,849
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    7561
    Likes (Received)
    8958

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Gebhart View Post
    With all the info for loading and transporting I feel confident that I can do it safely. Unloading it is now proving to the new problem. I do not have a crane or for that mater any lifting device to pick it off the trailer. My original thought was to use a tilt trailer but am now very much second guessing that approach. I am finding the cost of the machine is the least costly part of buying one. I am starting to consider taking the machine apart and while it is apart restoring (paint checking ways etc.) so it is ready for service when I need it. Thank you all again on all the very valuable information that yous have gave me.
    "Yous" I haven't heard in years. Nor "youins". Born Northside, Pittsburgh, but escaped young!

    You don't want to try to cheap-out nor short-cut on rigging even a modest "medium' radial @ 16,500 or so.

    Hired crane load-out, rather.
    Hired crane unload as well.

    Serious-stout FL but also lifting from above the not as welcome fallback.

    Whatcha can probably get least-cost is "callout" of a major over-the road vehicle "turret" recovery crane. Of the sort used to lift dead-Peterbilts as are down some embankment.

    Abom79 used such to move his big lathes and the Horizontal Boring mill.
    There are still fotos on PM of it.

    Then a NON-tilting flatbed, serious fifth-wheel rig of the sort yah find back of a K-Wopper, Peterbilt, or pretender for over the road. Not a pickup.

    More to it that how MUCH mass. It is also WHERE the mass IS. Yah don't need the tall bugger tipping a lesser trailer over on it's side of a tight curve nor emergency maneuver!

    Depending on yer route of march, might need a "lowboy" as used for earthmovers dead battle tanks & such ELSE you could have bridge clearance concerns, time you combine the height of the trailer deck plus radial DP to the top of the column.

    Taking one apart and putting back together is not needed for refurb, and I'd not even rate it smart.
    DAMHIKT!

    I can - and HAVE - rigged to lay such loads on one SIDE, but the work to build the cradle ONTO them before yah tilt and have it rigged to lay-down without harm is NOT exactly trivial in time nor materials, either one. The layover process isn't for virgins, either.

    Rollers? Their time is past. Outgew pipe or bar rollers nearly 60 years ago, no plans to ever again use either. BT,DT,GTTS, WBH (With Bullet Holes).

    Simplest of reasons. I work alone.

    The brakes and steering on rollers are really shitty for single-handing!

    When I cannot use my skates I plate a timber "roadway" with slip-timber or steel, then SLIDE the load with FL, or "walk" it with prybar or swing-lever bar. "Corner walk" the 4400 lb DP about using an ignorant 8 foot or 10-foot four-by chained across it a tad below hip-level, then applying the mass of my hams to it.

    No rush, yah need not be the Mighty Quinn, nor even break a sweat.

    Greasing sheet galvanized as a slip-layer is cheating.... but cheap. So yah cheats!

    If I had to tug, twist, and push to slide yer radial about, I'd use a vehicle instead of my ass, but same principle. It stays flat. On the ground.

    You WANT it to prefer NOT moving, not rolling off in the "Oh SHIT!" direction as it pleases. Unlike rollers, yah can stop any time for a piss by simply...ceasing to push or drag.

    Go figure some other lazy folks even launch large watercraft with similar wooden "slipway" techniques. It ain't as dramatic, yah keep the buggers LEVEL, but its cheaper and simpler and safer.

    Take yer time. "Instant gratification" in rigging?

    Only thing ever comes "FAST" is damaged. Or dead.

  14. Likes tdmidget liked this post
  15. #33
    Join Date
    May 2019
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    Pennsylvania
    Posts
    13
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    0
    Likes (Received)
    0

    Default

    I finally had time to look at the "ell" base. From what i see it looks like it is a manufactures option. The main base is cast with the ability to attack the "ell".
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails img_20191219_231057789.jpg  

  16. #34
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    Virginia
    Posts
    28,849
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    7561
    Likes (Received)
    8958

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Gebhart View Post
    I finally had time to look at the "ell" base. From what i see it looks like it is a manufactures option. The main base is cast with the ability to attack the "ell".
    As it appeared to be.

    Fosdick had a complex early history. Initially "made their bones" off a sort of hybrid that filled a gap between a long-reach radial and shorter-reach legacy column drill. Got sold, bought, merged, lived on primarily as a "brand", not necessarily as a sepearate "factory", and maybe more than once. Not all that many folks even cared.

    Bottom line is their radials are uncommon, never placed all that well against the bigger boys with better-proven toys. Who nearly all used ONE PIECE Ell or half-moon bases a GREAT DEAL stronger than that joining could ever be.

    Basic approach it that it relies on the slab UNDER it and some alignment and shimming-fu.

    I might leave it in place. Or not.

    But either way would not put any trust in it at all for stability in rigging, nor transport, and WOULD "trust" that the DP would need extra care to prevent tipping with it. Or without it. "Equally".

    2CW

  17. #35
    Join Date
    May 2019
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    Pennsylvania
    Posts
    13
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    0
    Likes (Received)
    0

    Default

    I was planning on removing it so it does not interfere with the balancing.

  18. #36
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Country
    AUSTRALIA
    Posts
    2,588
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    10
    Likes (Received)
    804

    Default

    Do not attempt to move it on pipe rollers......I ve had lots of experience ,and a few crashes,and I know that even a forklift is risky with a radial drill ,due to weight being all at one end and the the unsteady nature of these machines.....get a crane truck with a crane big enough to lift it,or take off the head to improve stability.

  19. #37
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Location
    West Unity, Ohio
    Posts
    25,691
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    5991
    Likes (Received)
    8275

    Default

    If y'all aint got this moved yet - which it seems y'aint, I for one am on board with Thermite as he has said over and aggin to NOT take the table off and to use it to stabilize the arm.

    That post above about replacing the table with a threaded rod for the same application?
    I have to give him the benefit of the doubt and to think that he must be fishing.
    Either that - or trying to git'chew killed!

    I for one wouldn't likely put a chain on that over-arm tho.
    Toss forty-leven of them over the base - fer sure, but not the over-arm.

    I like to wrap straps around the far end on items like that.
    Meaning, you go up over the top, down undah the arm, back up over the top and then to the other side of the trailer.
    Just the friction of trying to slip that strap would likely be enough to keep even a loose strap in place, but - for sure - put two on it!

    Also - straps won't damage your paint, casting, or ways. (much)
    If all you have is chains tho - make sure to grab some old carpet drops to wrap it up first.

    Also a strap or two wrapped around the column - just above the overarm.

    I doo similar to top heavy items too.
    I got to The Soo once with a tall pre-war twin spindle drill press, and I had it chained seven ways from Sunday, only to find that a 4by slipped out from under the one side/corner and that leg was just dangling in the air. Why? Because the poor thing couldn't move an inch!

    Now - that may not be the case for the chip spinner that I forgot to tie down recently....
    Everything else on the deck was tied down for how-tied-um, but somehow - the target piece was missed.
    I was horrified to notice it when I stopped for supper (dinner actually - long day...) and got some straps on it!
    I should'a been sweatin' bullets! That is NOT how I opperate!


    ------------------

    Think Snow Eh!
    Ox

  20. #38
    Join Date
    May 2019
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    Pennsylvania
    Posts
    13
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    0
    Likes (Received)
    0

    Default

    Ox yes you are right I have not moved it yet. The move got pushed out at least a few more months. I do not currently have a place to go with it that it will not need to be transported again. The table is off now needed to clean the t slots but could be put back on. I was planing on strapping it down similar to how you described. One can not have to many straps and chains. I used to haul construction equipment and have had the frightful experience of it moving. Thankfully it never came off the trailer but lesson learned.

    A question for the lifting. Would one t-slot bolt on each side and an eye nut be enough to pick with. I had my brother that deals with the numbers of lifting give me a rough estimation that each bolt would be rated for 44,000 lbs under tension. The lifting eye is rated for 14,400 lbs. By the numbers that would work but is it something that would actually work or do I need to do a plate with a lift eye welded to it with two bolts holding it to the base?

    Again thank all of you for helping with this.

  21. #39
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Location
    West Unity, Ohio
    Posts
    25,691
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    5991
    Likes (Received)
    8275

    Default

    I would prefer to pick with forktruck.

    I would expect most any radial drill to be heavy on one end, and not lend it'self well to slinging.


    ------------------

    Think Snow Eh!
    Ox

  22. #40
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Country
    AUSTRALIA
    Posts
    2,588
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    10
    Likes (Received)
    804

    Default

    If this thing does weigh 8 ton as some here claim,even I would be a bit nervous about moving it....But I still am unconvinced that it will be anything near.....even so ,it will be a very tricky item for any less than a fork in the 10-15 ton size.If you overload one side of the carriage , the big risk is broken mast rollers or even a jam up ....bent tynes would be the least of your worries.


Tags for this Thread

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •