Help Fadal 3016 unloading

Boyko · Jun 20, 2018

First post on the forum for me,

Great forum, so much knowledge and experience its scary for me to post on here

So I have slowly been developing a obsession with CNC machining and just took the next big step (for me) into it with a Fadal 3016.

Machine should be here soon, because of my location and the terrain is it feasible to unload this machine with a picker. I am having a hard time finding riggers that are anywhere close to me.

Bobw · Jun 20, 2018

Technical Docs | Manuals & Diagrams | FadalCNC.com

Maintenance manual, section 1.. Shows a hole for lifting by crane.. I think you need a
1.25" bar to slide through. I think it would hang kind of funny since it doesn't look like
there is any place to balance it in the front..

Boyko · Jun 20, 2018

Wow

thanks for the fast reply Bobw

I see what you mean,

Wondering if anyone out thee has experience hoisting a fadal using a lifting bar

72bwhite · Jun 20, 2018

20,000 pound forklift with long forks
and 2 pieces of the right size channel or box about 4 to 5 feet long

the diagram shows a place to use eye bolts for the front but I never saw where they would
go on mine

Boyko · Jun 20, 2018

Thanks for the replies,

Its kind of hard $$$ to get a big forklift out to were the machine is going to live, There is a lot of picker rigs around though, I was hoping I could take that rout

Boyko · Jun 21, 2018

So what I have been told from some riggers that have experience with the fadals is that that you should not use the shipping bar to off load this type of machine

macds · Jun 21, 2018

Use a good quality bar in the location shown. then thread 2 high quality swivel eyes into middle t slots of the table. run straps through the swivel eyes (spaced so straps dont crunch the sheet metal on head, be sure to use a spacer between the t-nuts!).
Keep in mind almost ALL the weight is in the column.
This will keep the machine leveled better. I would not place it this way, unless you have a 20' ceiling.

triumph406 · Jun 24, 2018

macds said:
Use a good quality bar in the location shown. then thread 2 high quality swivel eyes into middle t slots of the table. run straps through the swivel eyes (spaced so straps dont crunch the sheet metal on head, be sure to use a spacer between the t-nuts!).
Keep in mind almost ALL the weight is in the column.
This will keep the machine leveled better. I would not place it this way, unless you have a 20' ceiling.

I'd like to see somebody lift a Fadal using the table slots. The only thing holding the table to the machine is the gibs. I'm sure you've done it, but I wouldn't. Actually that's pretty stupid advice.

Boyko · Jun 25, 2018

I got a fork lift booked, machine coming from the other side of Canada and should be here early next week, ill post some pics of the placing......... just stoked, excited, cant wait!

I am so green to this, so much to learn

Thanks for the advice so far!

Bobw · Jun 25, 2018

Boyko said:
I got a fork lift booked, machine coming from the other side of Canada and should be here early next week, ill post some pics of the placing......... just stoked, excited, cant wait!

I am so green to this, so much to learn

Thanks for the advice so far!

2 things nobody clued me in on, about 15 years ago when the first Fadal showed up.. Shipping bars in
the counter weight. The head would go up, but it wouldn't come down... And make sure the transformer
is tapped for the correct voltage that you are going to feed it, then make sure the generated voltage is
less than 240...

Boyko · Jun 25, 2018

After the mill is placed and leveled I have to decide on how to power it,

I only have single phase

I'm kind of leaning towards a transformer and just running single phase but really don't know at this point.

triumph406 · Jun 29, 2018

Boyko said:
I got a fork lift booked, machine coming from the other side of Canada and should be here early next week, ill post some pics of the placing......... just stoked, excited, cant wait!

I am so green to this, so much to learn

Thanks for the advice so far!

If the lower casting is anything like a 4020 there'll be 2 holes running thru the casting parrallel to the X-axis. The local riggers run 2" dia steel bars thru, and use that to lift the machine using a forklift. The riggers also use those bars to strap the machine to the trailer. You can see the bars in the picture.

Boyko · Jul 3, 2018

Got the mill nestled in to the shop, went pretty good

Small issue shipping it, the blocking for the spindle didn't hold and the shipping bar rattled out

Chains for the counter weight look ok though

So can I power up the controller just with single phase, not looking to run the mill.

Going to have to decide on a power option soon.

Thanks for everyone input so far

macds · Jul 7, 2018

triumph406 said:
I'd like to see somebody lift a Fadal using the table slots. The only thing holding the table to the machine is the gibs. I'm sure you've done it, but I wouldn't. Actually that's pretty stupid advice.

I certainly didnt mean to pick the machine by the table! Dont do that! You know me better than that Triumph

You pick it by the column, and use the eye bolts in the table to very subtly stabilize the load (block between table an column). As I had mentioned, almost all the weight is in the column, which i why it is the recommended pick point.

Doesnt matter anyways, as OP is bringing in a forklift.
In that case, you generally want to get it from the cabinet side with the forklift. 1.5"x3" flat bar through the holes in the base casting, and off you go. Round stock is a no no, think rolling.

EDIT:

Read rest of post. Good work OP!

I wouldnt bother trying to power the control on single phase, what would it accomplish?

Hitachi TS15 · Jul 7, 2018

Single Phase is possible but......you need the option.

This is interesting. From the Installation Instructions:

The Fadal VMC line is designed for three phase input power. However, three phase
power is not always available. If this is the case, Fadal offers a single phase
input power option. All Fadal machines are capable of operating on
single-phase line input. The torque ratings will be at 60% of the published
performance. The rapid traverse rate is reduced to not more than 700 IPM for
machines with higher speed capability. This is because as the DC bus
capacitors are drained and the bus voltage drops, the single-phase input can
not recharge the capacitors as fast as the three-phase. Lower bus voltage
equals lower speed and more current. Single-phase requires 73% more current
to maintain the same performance (square root of 3). The main limitation is the
spindle drive. It will not draw more than its rated current. The current rise is
steeper in single-phase and will therefore trip sooner.
Fadal does not recommend single-phase power for the High torque or the
6535, 6030 and 8030 machines and cannot be used with VHT. This option can
be ordered on a new machine and can be installed in the field. Some wiring
changes are also necessary. Please see the single-phase transformer charts
and wiring instructions.

Boyko · Jul 13, 2018

Would this work?

L1 & L3 bridged

Just looking to power up pendant and CPU

gbent · Jul 13, 2018

I understand you want to play with your new toy. But I think in this case it would be safer to wait.

isaac338 · Jul 13, 2018

gbent said:
I understand you want to play with your new toy. But I think in this case it would be safer to wait.

This. On the fadal at work, the first thing that the control does is power up the amps. Do you really want to find out if they're the kind that get real smoky when you single phase them?

Boyko · Jul 15, 2018

I never seen fadal before I got this one, and know so little about it and how it works, curiosity got the best of me

I really wanted to play with the thing

I did look at the manuals for a few hours before I tried it.

So I flipped the switch.

There is a low voltage issue coming from the transformer for 2 outputs the chiller was one so I unplugged it.

Another low voltage isue for the 1100-1 board, I smoked a SCR on it, I had a replacement and it seems to be working ok since,

It had some pretty cheep looking SCRs, just a naked boards, not factory. The smoking SCR was at the bottom of the board where the fan is and the SCR was so greasy, that might have caused it to start smoking

Power going to the amps and vector drive is in spec.

I think I can sort out the issues by just swapping some wires around and running the 3 phase transformer

But it is spinning and sliding for now

Bill D · Jul 15, 2018

Did the shipping bar make it to you when it rattled out or was it lost in transit. If you had it would it have been used by the riggers or would they prefer a different method.
Bill D

Help Fadal 3016 unloading

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