History of Detroit Diesel

JHOLLAND1 · Sep 24, 2020

new release-- nicely presented --- up to date

History of Detroit Diesel | Diesel History Episode 3 - YouTube

texasgeartrain · Sep 24, 2020

The 71 series really dominated in the commercial marine sector coming out of ww2 through about the year 2000, with generator and pump engines. Some were used as main engines, but truly dominated as gen and pump engines.

Its amazing, but there is still many many 71's still in service here is the US on the commercial marine side.

About the year 2000, early 2000's, John Deere has really come on to replace those 2 stokes as gen engines, to where they are most dominate now.

Here's a 12 cylinder series 92 pump package up at my work. Its a 12v92 natural, only blowers, no turbos:

russler · Sep 24, 2020

What is that snail thing behind the air filter?

Here's a 12 cylinder series 92 pump package up at my work. Its a 12v92 natural, only blowers, no turbos:

View attachment 300190[/QUOTE]

Ziggy2 · Sep 24, 2020

Definitely turbocharged. Can't tell if it is aftercooled from the picture.

texasgeartrain · Sep 24, 2020

russler said:
What is that snail thing behind the air filter?

Here's a 12 cylinder series 92 pump package up at my work. Its a 12v92 natural, only blowers, no turbos:

View attachment 300190

[/QUOTE]

Pretty funny since it was my picture

. Yea its turbo charged. Some configurations place the turbo between the two exhaust manifolds, which is mid engine. My eyes drifted there when I wrote it.

texasgeartrain · Sep 24, 2020

Ziggy2 said:
Definitely turbocharged. Can't tell if it is aftercooled from the picture.

On these they usually call them intercoolers, though they serve the same function to cool the compressed air. The reason I think of them as intercoolers is because they lay inside the engine block, in the vee, under the blowers.

I only took the one pic for reference on something, and just happen to have it on my phone. But I'll see if I can get a pick inside the vee tomorrow or the weekend. Off the top of my head, I'm thinking one coolant connection is inside the block and hidden with blowers mounted. I can't remember if the other coolant line is visible, with engine built, but if its visible that would be a tell tale its intercooled.

Ziggy2 · Sep 24, 2020

texasgunsmith said:
On these they usually call them intercoolers, though they serve the same function to cool the compressed air. The reason I think of them as intercoolers is because they lay inside the engine block, in the vee, under the blowers.

I only took the one pic for reference on something, and just happen to have it on my phone. But I'll see if I can get a pick inside the vee tomorrow or the weekend. Off the top of my head, I'm thinking one coolant connection is inside the block and hidden with blowers mounted. I can't remember if the other coolant line is visible, with engine built, but if its visible that would be a tell tale its intercooled.

Detroit used both intercooler and aftercoolers. The 71 series usually referred to them as intercoolers and the 92 series was usually referred to them as after coolers. Difference is that the 92 series had them after the blower and the 71 series placed them between the turbo and the blower.

This gives the last two letters in the engine designation 8V71TI or an 6V92TA or 6-71TI.

The inline engines had the blowers on the side so the intercooler on those was moved around somewhat depending on specific application requirements.

Turbos also got moved around a lot depending on application and if single or dual turbos. Some applications mounted the turbo on top of the engine towards the front of the engine. Other applications bolted the turbos directly to exhaust manifolds with a 90 flange adapter using dual turbos. Center rear and center front turbo locations were single turbo applications.

texasgeartrain · Sep 25, 2020

Ziggy2 said:
Detroit used both intercooler and aftercoolers. The 71 series usually referred to them as intercoolers and the 92 series was usually referred to them as after coolers. Difference is that the 92 series had them after the blower and the 71 series placed them between the turbo and the blower.

This gives the last two letters in the engine designation 8V71TI or an 6V92TA or 6-71TI.

The inline engines had the blowers on the side so the intercooler on those was moved around somewhat depending on specific application requirements.

Turbos also got moved around a lot depending on application and if single or dual turbos. Some applications mounted the turbo on top of the engine towards the front of the engine. Other applications bolted the turbos directly to exhaust manifolds with a 90 flange adapter using dual turbos. Center rear and center front turbo locations were single turbo applications.

They really had a zillion options on configurations, which I think was due to their long time period use. I can't think of any other engine lines that ran that long of a time line except maybe EMD's.

Most of the stuff I saw was more basic configurations on commercial marine. Natural 71's, occasionally a turbo 71, but more rare for me. 92's were out there, but just not on the level as 71's. I probably saw more 149's than 92's because some smaller tugs used them for mains engines, those are pretty much all gone now though.

I did see some really exotic setup's on pleasure craft, but not really my background.

EmGo · Sep 26, 2020

texasgunsmith said:
They really had a zillion options on configurations, which I think was due to their long time period use.

I think it was more because the guys who designed that line were absolutely brilliant. From a single to 16 cylinders, all same working pieces. Frontwards, backwards, left-hand-right-hand, marine, trucking, generators, off-road, buses, lay-down, standup ... they were an erector-set engine, and with so many common components they make volume production a natural.

Really really smart engineering.

texasgeartrain · Sep 26, 2020

EmanuelGoldstein said:
I think it was more because the guys who designed that line were absolutely brilliant. From a single to 16 cylinders, all same working pieces. Frontwards, backwards, left-hand-right-hand, marine, trucking, generators, off-road, buses, lay-down, standup ... they were an erector-set engine, and with so many common components they make volume production a natural.

Really really smart engineering.

You're right. I think some of the stuff coming out from the 1950's through the 1970's saw some of the best engineering, and real thinking men behind it. Not even just Detroit. Detroit was most configurable by a long mile. But the way Caterpillar laid out their parts and service manuals was done with real thought and planning. Cat not as configurable as Detroits, but a lot of their bigger stuff was designed for regular overhauls, real intuitive for leaving accesses open to commonly removed items. Quick easy tear downs, etc.

Some tech today is real good. Better fuel efficiency and more power from less iron, but I feel like somethings missing. Like there's a lot less planning or deep thinking. Seems like designs are more per just a certain goal, not long term greatness.

texasgeartrain · Sep 27, 2020

Got to checking the engine of that first pic I posted, can't tell if it has intercoolers, maybe the in and out water connections are both under blower, or not. I can't remember, and would need to yank blowers to check.

Poking around our yard more did find a 8v-71 also set up as a pump package.

And something a touch more modern in a Series 60, also a pump package.

texasgeartrain · Sep 27, 2020

We also have a bit of a Detroit graveyard going on. Most yanked out for re-powers, spares, etc.

texasgeartrain · Sep 27, 2020

Was also discussing with EmanuelGoldstein about Detroit's ability to bolt engine blocks and crankshafts together to get bigger engines.

An example here is a 16v71. It is two 8v blocks and cranks bolted together. This is a spare for a customer that has a couple boats using two of these per boat as main engines.

This engine here has normal flywheel end to bolt to marine gear. But the front of engine can also mount a smaller clutch to run hydraulics or a fire pump:

DDoug · Sep 28, 2020

EmanuelGoldstein said:
I think it was more because the guys who designed that line were absolutely brilliant. From a single to 16 cylinders, all same working pieces. Frontwards, backwards, left-hand-right-hand, marine, trucking, generators, off-road, buses, lay-down, standup ... they were an erector-set engine, and with so many common components they make volume production a natural.

Really really smart engineering.

Actually....it's laziness.....

Yes, I've done many designs where I look to Detroit's modular concept for inspiration, as I don't want
to be bothered making so many different drawings & designs for each revision.

Give the customer an erector set, and let them put it together as they need.

mister honey · Sep 28, 2020

Nothing sounds quite like a Detroit Diesel accelerating under load.

Mike

DDoug · Sep 28, 2020

mister honey said:
Nothing sounds quite like a Detroit Diesel accelerating under load.

Mike

On a load holding governor, watching a log hit the blade in a sawmill powered by one is about the best example.

plastikdreams · Sep 28, 2020

It's all about the buzzin dozen

man they sound good.

Fabworks · Sep 28, 2020

Couple of Detroits I saw at the antique truck show in Reno last year... I had never seen a 16v before.

john.k · Sep 29, 2020

The sandblasters had an all Detroit fleet...4/6/.V6&V8.....Ingersoll Rand and Sullair.......when the refinery cut off free fuel ,all the Detroits were put in the other yard,and replaced with new Sullairs , mostly John Deere or Perkins power....cut fuel consumption by nearly 50%.....For instance a Sullair 800 GM used 100 gallons per 10 hour shift,Sullair 800 John Deere turbo ,70 gallons per shift.....and the weight of the compressor reduced from 5 tons to 3 1/2,so it could be towed by a pickup instead of a truck.

EmGo · Sep 29, 2020

john.k said:
....cut fuel consumption by nearly 50%.....For instance a Sullair 800 GM used 100 gallons per 10 hour shift,Sullair 800 John Deere turbo ,70 gallons per shift.....

They could have added DDEC fuel control but reality is two-strokes are more suitable for steady-state operation. They are almost as efficient as fours when doing what they are supposed to be but varying loads is not a situation they are good at. DDEC went a long ways to improve that but still, an air compressor maybe not a great use for Detroits. Marine is good.

Big huge stuff is two-strokes, it's very efficient when used properly.

and the weight of the compressor reduced from 5 tons to 3 1/2,so it could be towed by a pickup instead of a truck.

Which means they will last 1/3 as long, but these days that's not such a big factor ... engine in my tug was war surplus, so prior to 1945. Still going great, I put about 2,000 miles on it last summer and didn't miss a beat and got good economy. Try that with a 3208.

btw, your figures give 30%, not 50%

Betcha fifty cents they could have got another 20% out of it easy. Talked to a fish boat owner this summer, had two boats, both with 8v92's, during winter overhaul he dropped the injectors in one down a size without telling. The captains of the boats couldn't tell either, except the fuel bill dropped several thousand $$ with the smaller injectors.

Full disclosure: I like detroits, sorry

History of Detroit Diesel

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