What's new
What's new

Moving machines around the shop -- am I doing it wrong?

benkokes

Plastic
Joined
May 18, 2014
Location
CA
I am trying to move a 7000lb Kiwa VMC around my shop on machine skates, and think I am doing it wrong. I have chain-roller type skates and a fairly smooth concrete floor, however I cannot budge the unit by myself. Checking out the videos on youtube, they make it seem like one guy with a broken arm could get it rolling. Not in my case. I had to use a hand winch to move it to its current location.

Why don't I keep using the handwinch? I only have 1 anchorpoint, which limits the range of movement.

I know about the dangers of using 4 skates to move it. The picture shows a 4 point stance, but this is ONLY for when its stationary while I figure out how to move it.

Other than getting 3-4 pals to help put some muscle into it, what do I seem to be doing wrong? Are rollers a better solution?

Thanks!
IMG_20190309_093814.jpg
 
I'm not there but a few things come to mind. A slight grade is a barrier with that weight, dirt on the floor or debris stuck to the rollers will act like a full size wheel chock on a tractor trailer and miss-alignment between the skates are a definite stopper.
Dan
 
I generally have to pry the machine along on those skates, like with a 2X4 or a rigger''s pinchbar turned upside down. Lubing the rollers and chains is important, and even more important is having them really clean. I find lots of crap embedded on the bottom surface of the body where the rollers roll after using them, which has the same effect as lots of crap on the floor to roll over. I use a flexible putty knife to get in there and scrape that surface clean before use. Yours look new, maybe the painted surface is causing a problem, or the casting is rough?
 
I always pull mine with a forklift. For fine tuning I use the forklift as a dead anchor and use a come along. I recommend that you clamp a sturdy bar between two of the skates to keep them from turning or toeing out. Then pull on the third skate.
 
Danny: Understood. I was sure to sweep clean the floor before moving

Mud: The red rollers are new. They have some spotting of a hard wax on them, but other than that they roll free. I have a 3500lb lathe that seems to roll OK on them. As for their casting, it looks fairly smooth from what I had seen. The blue skate is more used, and I will be sure to scrape it clean. The rollers could use some grease though. Maybe I should put them in the oven and melt off the waxes? ;-)

dalmatiangirl61: Right now it seems that is the best option.
 
When I was moving my machinery I bought a Harbor Freight 110V winch. I anchored it to the floor. When I was done, I drove the wedge anchors flush with the floor.
 
I use a bar. 6 or 7 feet long, one end pounded flat, the other to a point, used it for everything. Just squeech squeech squeech the machine along, gives you time to watch the skates so they don't slide out, it's safer and easy. If you want to keep the paint on the floor nice you can stick a skinny piece of plywood under the edge of the bar. Goes faster than you'd think. I've moved 25,000 lbs fifty feet in ten minutes that way, by myself, it's pretty easy and also fairly safe. Machines do fall off those damn skates.

You're putting a little piece of wood between the skate and the machine, right ? Stinky thin plywood or something ? The prongs on the top don't stick for doodly into cast iron.

And ONE steering skate, three total, not four ?


Just looked at your photo again. Ouch. You're scaring me. Don't do that. You can pull the arfing thing right off the skates that way. Boom goes London, boom paree, lets drop the big one now.
 
EmanuelGoldstein: I am trying to prevent any digging into the concrete with a prybar.I have tried using plywoood, but it slides around quite a bit. Also, there really is only one place on the mill to adequately use a 6' prybar. The sheetmetal enclosure gets in the way every other place. And Yes, I am using 1/8" plywood between the skate and the machine. I have already had one try to walk off the machine, fortunately come-a-long progress is pretty slow and lets you correct mistakes as you go. Yes, when moving it, I used a 3 point stance. One skate to steer and two in the back to follow. The 4 skates in the picture is to merely keep it stable while I figure out a better way to move it. Then will reposition them back to a 3 point stance. Should I post a pict with it back on the 3point? ;-)
 
For something that size I'd say its 2 person minimum, maybe 3 or 4 depending on surface smoothness, and yes on using prybars.

Moved my shop last fall, had 2 green (no experience moving machines) young men lined up for the day, and as I expected only 1 showed. The look in his eyes when the semi rolled around corner was priceless! I grabbed him by the shoulder and said don't worry, I'm not going to ask you to lift these, or kill you today LOL. Brushed concrete surface was a bit harder than I anticipated, even with lighter machines we had to use prybars to scoot them, and every few feet reposition the skates. Once in the door concrete was smooth and job got easier, but even then need 2 people to push and stop machines once moving.

Get some help, don't get in a rush, and work safe.
 
EmanuelGoldstein: I am trying to prevent any digging into the concrete with a prybar.
If your bar is smooth enough it generally is not a problem. But even if it were ... have you ever seen a machine fall over ?

It's not pretty.

I'm not speaking out my ass on this one, rearranging the furniture was one of my hobbies. If I could have charged myself rigger's rates, I'd have made more money moving things than running them.

You'd have to run fast to catch me, if I wuz in the same building as you moving things that way.

Luckily, that's not a lathe or an i.d. grinder. It'll just make a BOOM ! noise when it falls down 6". Try that on a lathe and you'll be mucho sorry.
 
I am trying to move a 7000lb Kiwa VMC around my shop on machine skates, and think I am doing it wrong. I have chain-roller type skates and a fairly smooth concrete floor, however I cannot budge the unit by myself. Checking out the videos on youtube, they make it seem like one guy with a broken arm could get it rolling. Not in my case. I had to use a hand winch to move it to its current location.

Why don't I keep using the handwinch? I only have 1 anchorpoint, which limits the range of movement.

I know about the dangers of using 4 skates to move it. The picture shows a 4 point stance, but this is ONLY for when its stationary while I figure out how to move it.

Other than getting 3-4 pals to help put some muscle into it, what do I seem to be doing wrong? Are rollers a better solution?

Thanks!
View attachment 251862

I have used my rollers for years and have moved machines up to 25k lbs with out any need for power.
You might want to soak them in 10w oil it allows it to flow into the rollers. You only need to do this every couple years.
I have found 1/2" thick rubber works better than plywood for grip and taking up the unevenness on all concrete floors.
3 rollers do make it easier to get moving and turn but it's also a lot easier to loose it off the rollers. I always use 4 if the machine has a high center and narrow width especially something like a lathe. 20 years ago I lost a pacemaker off 3 rollers and took the taper attachment off in 3 pieces.
As someone points out cleaning surfaces is needed both floor and rollers.
If you have the correct size rollers, and can't move less 10k lbs by hand you have a problem with your rollers. Come alongs etc. Is a good way to get hurt or damage a machine.
 
Emanuel: So you are saying that you would use 4 skates to move? What are other dangers that you see that we have not discussed? Thanks!
 
McClure: The rubber is a great idea, I was thinking about cutting out a piece of old tire... Understood about the lubrication. Thanks!
 
From your picture, those look like the small Hilmans. I have used the small size like that a bunch and I really struggled moving everything. They just didn't roll well. I bought a big set that are about a foot long and 8 inches wide and they roll effortlessly.

7K lbs is nothing on decent skates. Easy one person job. My big Pacemaker is 12k lbs and I moved it a bunch this week by hand on 3 of my big hilmans.

If the chains aren't oiled you should take them off, clean them in solvent and soak them in light oil. I use my skates a lot and the chains need oiled yearly. Dry chains make it harder.

The only time to use 4 skates is under something long and very flexible like a long steel table or a piece of fabricated equipment.

A VMC's center of mass is usually towards the rear so put two skates under each side in the rear and one under the front. Move it with 4 skates and it's real easy to drop it when one skate rolls out. 4 skates also makes your job alot harder to keep them lined up and to steer it.
 
Emanuel: So you are saying that you would use 4 skates to move?
No, I generally use three except like McClure mentioned, on something long and skinny and top heavy. An ID grinder is even worse than a lathe ... it's okay until you try to turn. Eek.

That's another reason for barring it, really. When you bar a machine, you're only going 6", 6", 6" .... gives you time to run around and check on all the skates to make sure nothing bad is happening.
 
For most moves, I don’t like the skates with the swivel pad on top that you can’t lock. Unless you keep a handle in them, they will never stay straight.

I’m not a really big fan of the caterpillar type skates either. Ones with big rollers seem to roll easier.

The main things with any type of skates is a clean floor and to make sure all skates are parallel with each other.
 
Garwood: Very interesting. The chain rollers I have are actually Daytons, 8000lb capacity. It sounds that there may be some sort of rule of thumb with rollers, maybe double capacity? For the skates you have, what are their capacity? I figured this is a contact area problem, the more roller area I get, the easier it is to move...
 
Two skates at rear connected together by a bar so they stay parallel, electric pallet jack with plywood between forks and machine bottom at front, twist throttle to creep mode and effortlessly go.... careful during turns to be sure one fork doesn't get beyond machine base.
 








 
Back
Top