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Winch bed and gin pole trucks

Demon69

Titanium
Joined
Mar 3, 2013
Location
Area 69.
Anyone had any experience building or running these rigs?
No doubt the oilfield guys have the skills, but at first glance they look amazingly capable yet simple pieces of kit.
A machine (anything else you wana load) strapped to a skid and hauled up over a roller. Bet that would turn a few heads at your local UK auction. :)
Seriously though, got me thinking, albeit on a smaller scale :scratchchin:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Hs5Jv5IhwY

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A4HxjH1Q2mw
 
Not brain surgery to operate but it takes practice to learn controls and to operate smoothly. The other side of the coin is that in use, often you will be moving large heavy objects that involve extreme forces. Mistakes can involve large amounts of money, pain, and even death. Take your time and start small.DSCN1754.jpg
 
I don't know the situation in the UK but over here flat bed automotive "tow" trucks in various sizes are quite common. Most of them are tilt bed and they winch heavy cars and trucks on board all day long. Well worn but serviceable ones turn up for sale regularly as the tow companies retire them.
 
Maybe repurposing a skip lorry would be pretty much as effective for stuff up to a couple or three tons.

Lift and swing always seems better to me having seen the complete hollyhock the RARDE / DERA / DRA / QinetiQ transport drivers use to make of loading and unloading the demountable lab bodies the (mis)management department got as a more economical (not) replacement for dedicated lab body "lorries". These worked on the same skid over rollers principle as the US flatbeds. Our dedicated transport guys (and gal) were bad enough but when all the driving was contracted out on a hire per trip basis the chances of equipment alignment surviving the trip from base base to trials site became pretty much zilch! One time even the body didn't survive completely intact after on site loading so muggins had to pack a welder and some hefty adjustment gear for second week to do a fix as no-one in line of command was going to admit to problems.

Clive
 
It all depends on what you want to haul. Here in IL, the max gross for a tandem rollback truck would be 54,000 lbs. Those trucks usually weigh around 26,000 lbs empty. So, you can only really haul maybe 28,000 payload, and that's with a 20k lb front axle, which is pretty rare. More likely, they have a 12k front axle, which gives you only 46,00 lbs gross. I wouldn't want a big truck like that if I can only haul 20,000 lbs. Some states let you haul more if you have more axles. But, here in IL, drop axles give you very little benefit, so you rarely see them.

It's not really much more expensive to register or insure a full tractor trailer combination that can haul 80,000 lbs gross, with a 45,000 lb payload. For that reason, you don't see many tandem rollback trucks. The only places I know that have them are forklift dealers. They usually don't haul more than say 15,000 lbs and they are easier to load.
 
That type of setup is fine for big dumb stuff like tanks or mini-mobile storage units, but I'm sure I wouldn't use that technique for a machine tool. The tilt-bed approach is somewhat kinder, where the load is better supported by the tilt platform for moving to level position, and you rely much less on the operator's skill (and interest level) in bringing a tipped load on the roller to that perfect balance point and gently making it upright.
 
Couple of problems I see

Get a machine with a profile thats basically a square trunk and vertically up from there, its going to be impossible to load that geometry with a cable pull without simply dumping it over on its side. Most any kind of mill would fit that. A lathe lifted like that would either twist the bed or break a chunk out of the headstock support cabinet. One could make a steel skid with the proper long length to avoid forces on the machine, but then the machine has to be loaded and secured to the skid, presumably with a forklift....

...Bringing me to the second point that unless you are planning to do this for profit, the insurance and compliance that you have to pass and maintain for a CDL is prohibitive for a guy occasionally trying to snare a new piece of iron. Stay under 26k GCVW and you pretty much fly under the radar. You need the forklift anyway, so why not just go with a flatbed trailer....

...which you can acquire plus a prime mover pickup truck for under 10k. I don't think you can acquire a medium duty or heavy duty rollback for that kind of money unless buying a basket case in need of major work or simply worn slap out.

Not trying to beat you up but there are some physical and economic limitations.
 
The issue of insurance and DOT and all that stuff is a question of intended use. You don't need DOT numbers, MC authority, cargo insurance, log books, and a lot of other stuff if this is a private vehicle and not being used to make money. As soon as it's a business, bend over.
 
Take your time and start small.
I think that prolly covers the most of it. :)

A bit of background on the UK thing, all stupidly complex :crazy: so all afaik.
My license entitles me to drive GVW of 7500kg. I can pull a trailer behind that, used to be 12000kg total 'truck n trailer' weight, but has since been reduced to 8250kg, until I take some test to regain the full entitlement. Anything more than that its HGV license territory.
To drive anything like a lorry in London, it has conform to 'low emission zone' standard which means new truck or expensive exhaust. Unless the truck is pre 1973, then its exempt (UK wisdom :D), and the main reason i bought this little beauty.
20150128_202952.jpg
I should add that this is all for personal kicks and giggles. No business use intended.
 
Nice one ,haven't seen a D series for years ,as you probably know ,they have just changed the rules on small trucks so you have to go on loads of training courses but only if it's for commercial gain of any sort so you will be OK.

I thought you had put a link on to some more pics or information ,turned out it was another vigilink Amazon ad:angry:

I think you could do a fair amount of iron hauling with that truck with just a winch ,you would need to fabricate a skid to strap the machine to then just drag it up the ramps.
 
Cheers Ed. I saw the commercial and had to have it! Built "Ford tough" for any loony you might be unfortunate enough to employ :D.
Drove it back from Peterborough with a flat rear inner tire (unknowingly) and sticky OSR brake. Might have been the reason some guy was flashing me on the motor way. That or the smoke, or 45mph flat out, maybe all three! lol
When I stripped the rear brakes out I found bubba had been there. 1" wheel cylinder one side, 3/4" on the other, luvly jubbly!
Relining the brakes was educational, especially after fking one pair of liners mashing the rivets down too hard :o.
20150310_182944.jpg
Then there was deep joy of the 'non' adjusting self adjuster. Just what you need when youve refitted it all. Nothing that a little bit of welding and machining couldnt fix tho.
IMG-20150408-WA0000.jpg20150318_170141.jpg
Am starting to realize its gonna need a fair bit o work before im happy with it :o

I reckon youre right about dragging a skid up the ramps. With a bit of consideration im sure thats a doer. The angle of bed to tail is a bit acute for loading cars but sure I could work something out with longer / angled ramps arranged on top (or some other trick o the trade). Want it to be as multipurpose as poss. It does have a very small winch that im planning on changing, I dont like how its mounted either. The previous owner used it for tractors so im told.
The body Is aluminium. Nice and light but am guessing harder to work around (welding etc). Would like to keep the truck as light as poss to spare the payload hence wanting to stay with winching.

Ooo, i be updating the 13z thread soon. Not much to update apart from a bit of painting. Been to busy playing at being a lorry mechanic ;)
 
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Clive
Funny you mention skip lorries. Ive already given that some thought. Love the way it lifts and loads in one movement. The downside for me was the weight of the bed on my limited license, and not really being able to load a car etc. I could happily
deal with all the "is that an old skip lorry!?" comments tho :cool:

Matt
Yeah I can picture trouble if you didnt use a skid for anything that holds the weight up top, even going up ramps. Loading the skid could be done with a winch, the machine on bars/skates etc. The nice thing is that the skid is flat on the floor whist youre strapping up.
The max weight im guessing ill be attempting to handle would be around 3 tons. I didnt really have the forklift as an option due to lack of space and use i could put it too. I do have a 2 ton gantry that I was intending to use to unload at home, but realistically, its a job and a half to erect and take down. The other thing is I wouldnt have a way of loading should there be no forks on site.
No worries on beating me up mate. More ideas the better.

specfab
I hear ya. Winching over the roller needs some skill. In the uk we have hook loaders, I think clive was referring to. Very similar in many ways but easier to control (id imagine). The problem for me would again be weight of the kit.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7NyPHePD_wc
 
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If all else fails when trying load up that mama jama must have bit o kit. You can always round up the neighbors to give you a hand! :D
 
The issue of insurance and DOT and all that stuff is a question of intended use. You don't need DOT numbers, MC authority, cargo insurance, log books, and a lot of other stuff if this is a private vehicle and not being used to make money. As soon as it's a business, bend over.

I would agree with you under 26k Gross Combined. At least in this state and 3 others I've lived in it was pretty clear that you were going to be in over your head if trying to run north of that without worrying about the commercial regs, especially in something obvious like a medium duty or larger. Yes there are farming exemptions...but you pretty much have to have a farm that's responsible for ~75% of your income or 15+ acres in TN as I recall.

Nice truck Mr. Demon! Now I see more about your questions,etc. Looks perfect for a number of hauling jobs...but getting the stuff on and off...pesky.

Personally I think I'd try to put more work into a gantry, with the idea the bridge beam is just swiveled on the truck bed from its transport position. You obtain some fairly small columns that mount to pockets in the truck, these are just rated for say 300lb each, only purpose is to raise the bridge beam to the height where it will sit atop the real full-load column-support-ends for further bolting. Ideally those end frames just tilt up and down, you use the truck bed as the fulcrum to slide them up and down without ever really lifting the entire weight of the column. No casters, just a chainfall for lifting straight up, back the truck under and reverse. Not sure if my concept is clear but that's how Id approach.
 
Personally I think I'd try to put more work into a gantry, with the idea the bridge beam is just swiveled on the truck bed from its transport position. You obtain some fairly small columns that mount to pockets in the truck, these are just rated for say 300lb each, only purpose is to raise the bridge beam to the height where it will sit atop the real full-load column-support-ends for further bolting. Ideally those end frames just tilt up and down, you use the truck bed as the fulcrum to slide them up and down without ever really lifting the entire weight of the column. No casters, just a chainfall for lifting straight up, back the truck under and reverse. Not sure if my concept is clear but that's how Id approach.
I think I got that.
Basically, a couple of light columns to lift/shuffle the main beam high enough to get the gantry sides in place. Bolt it up, drive the truck out and get the machine up on a chain hoist. Back the the truck in under the gantry and lower off the machine to the bed. Dismantle the gantry and strap it all up.
The gantry I have. Sides i can maneuver pretty easy but the main beam is pretty weighty, was a fart popping effort dragging in the garage on mi tod. Can understand using the bed to take half or more of that weight. Even with the machine loaded and the beam lowered back on the bed, could slide it out to one side and walk it round. Nice idea.

Pic of gantry. Ignore the 6" beam atop of it. Ive a 10" that id use. Would like to add braces the corners also.

20150423_112541.jpg

According to the guy I bought it off. He used to ticket it for 2tons, on castors with no column braces. but later went down to 1ton.
 
Negative. Once you get over 26,000 lbs. it becomes a federal issue and you have to get your DOT numbers and abide by the many regulations that each state has. It's true that it becomes more burdensome when you go commercial but who has an over 26000 GVWR truck that's not commercial or ag use?
 
Negative. Once you get over 26,000 lbs. it becomes a federal issue and you have to get your DOT numbers and abide by the many regulations that each state has. It's true that it becomes more burdensome when you go commercial but who has an over 26000 GVWR truck that's not commercial or ag use?

No. Technically, you need DOT numbers for anything over 10,000 gross. But, that's only if it's commercial. For example, my pickup has a 9,600 lb GVWR, so it would not require DOT numbers. Put a trailer on it, and it needs a number. Again, only if it's commercial.

Now, if the vehicle is over 26,000, you need a CDL. If you tow a trailer over 10,000 lbs, you also need a CDL. However, this is kind of a grey area since many travel trailers are over 10,000 and are generally exempt. Most pick up trailers seem to fly under the radar.

If you plan to haul for hire across state lines, and your rig is over 10,000 gross, you need an MC operating authority, which is another ton of paper work. Some states also require authority to run inside the state. IL and IA both require this.

If you are over 26,000 gross and cross state lines, you need IFTA (fuel tax), and apportioned plates. If you run over 100 miles, you need log books. You also have to do pre and post trip inspections. Not to mention annual DOT inspections.

Over 10,000 gross and you are required to have $750,000 in liability insurance. If you have authority, you also need cargo insurance.

If you are over 55,000 gross, you also have to pay federal heavy vehicle tax.
 
Quote from Ewlsey If you are over 55,000 gross, you also have to pay federal heavy vehicle tax



I think Demons' tyres will have burst long before this point.
 








 
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