2014 never used Mazak QT Smart 100S won't boot up mystery...

Milacron · Mar 27, 2021

Pressing control start button brings up screen below but it never goes past that. Mazak tech convinced the lithium battery at the LCD rear was low but it measures full 3 V.

I hesitate to even mention the following as it's so bizarre and may just be a red herring....but the four D (Akaline) cells in back cabinet were pretty much dead, so changed those out, turn on machine and finally it goes to start up screen, hydraulics come on, etc. but I notice the hydraulic has no pressure, so assume it's running backwards, shut down machine, reverse two wires, fire it back up...and it's back to not booting up !! Crazy I know, but maybe that hints at a specific issue ??

Can control parameters be lost even if the lithium battery is good ? And am I correct in guessing the four D cells are for absolute encoder backup memory ?

Another strangeness is when on button pressed it comes up with this screen almost instantly. Shouldn't it go to Windows and do some text scrolling first ?

Scruffy887 · Mar 27, 2021

I'm going to guess that screen comes from the BIOS. And would not trust that lithium battery as good. I seem to remember full voltage being 3.6V??? And 2014 to now is past the lithiums life by a lot. No idea what the D cells are for on that machine. Maybe the turret, sim to MRJ2 batteries in Fusion series.

cnctoolcat · Mar 28, 2021

And am I correct in guessing the four D cells are for absolute encoder backup memory ?

Agreed, I have no idea what the D cells are for...as Mazaks usually don't have them.

Has to be for absolute encoders I would reckon...

If the machine will get to startup screen every time, yet hydraulics don't pressurize wired that way...that is definitely a clue. As to what...?

Maybe disconnect the hydraulics, try to bring control up?

The Fusion controls are infamous for losing the hard drive, but this is a Smart control, it may not have a hard drive?

My generation Mazaks (80's, 90's with nary such a stupid thing as a computer hard drive onboard), you re-initialize the control when all else fails.

Shouldn't it go to Windows and do some text scrolling first ?

I'm pretty sure the Smart controls don't use Windows, they're just a dedicated CNC (like the old days!)

Worst case, give Mazak a call or three - try to get a good tech on the phone...lol

ToolCat

Milacron · Mar 29, 2021

Scruffy887 said:
I'm going to guess that screen comes from the BIOS. And would not trust that lithium battery as good. I seem to remember full voltage being 3.6V??? And 2014 to now is past the lithiums life by a lot. No idea what the D cells are for on that machine. Maybe the turret, sim to MRJ2 batteries in Fusion series.

Control lithium is a 3 volt battery...at least that is what was there. I happen to have a new 3.6 volt lithium so I tried that...no difference. Re 2014 being battery life up by a lot.... maybe, depends on control I guess.... I've had CNC machines go thru this shop that had lithium batteries way older and still ok voltage...a Sodick CNC sinker EDM had a battery 12 years old and was still good.

Justin_Terry · Mar 29, 2021

The D battery set is on a lot of new machines it is for absolute. mits sells a retrofit kit to add to a machine.

what does the segment display on back of screen show?

Milacron · Mar 29, 2021

Justin_Terry said:
what does the segment display on back of screen show?

"0C".........I tried the reinitialize procedure where the rotary dip is changed to "C" and then segment display reads "0Y" as it should..power off, return rotary to "0", power back on....but still no results...same screen as always.

On edit - Just talked with Mitsubishi tech and he says "0C" means corrupted software ! :angry:

Unless you guys have some revelations on this, ironic after 20+ years of dealing with all manner of CNC machines and fixing all of them myself* I may have to spend $$$ for my first ever factory service call ! :fight:

--------

*well actually come to think of it, quite of few fixes were only possible due to the advice on Practical Machinist ! No way in hell I would have figured out a bad static ROM chip (Deckel Dialog 11) on my own, for example.

Justin_Terry · Mar 30, 2021

No need for service call. Pull control and send to mits. Probably cheaper than service call from mits

CBlair · Mar 30, 2021

I am waiting to hear the story of a never used 2014 machine? Ill bet it is an interesting tail of how that happened.

Charles

Milacron · Mar 30, 2021

CBlair said:
I am waiting to hear the story of a never used 2014 machine? Ill bet it is an interesting tail of how that happened.

Charles

To be honest I don't know. Machine was in storage for at least 6 years at a Halliburton facility in Houston, TX. Was told by Mazak tech that Halliburton is known for buying multiples of a model with a few "spare" machines and never using them !

Scruffy887 · Mar 30, 2021

Milacron said:
Control lithium is a 3 volt battery...at least that is what was there. I happen to have a new 3.6 volt lithium so I tried that...no difference. Re 2014 being battery life up by a lot.... maybe, depends on control I guess.... I've had CNC machines go thru this shop that had lithium batteries way older and still ok voltage...a Sodick CNC sinker EDM had a battery 12 years old and was still good.

I have some that measure 3 volt. For sure MRJ2 does not like. The battery is there to remember something and low voltage will make it forget. Replacing battery does not help, stuff needs to be restored. But this is with Fusion controls. Is there any chance this machine has a location device? And will Mazak even talk to you as you are not the original purchaser of the machine?
My first 2 Mazaks were purchased by my millwork Co. I called a month ago and got a new tech on the line. He would not help me. I was not from the correct company. Asshole!

Milacron · Mar 31, 2021

Justin_Terry said:
No need for service call. Pull control and send to mits. Probably cheaper than service call from mits

Late yesterday talked with the Mits tech and he mentioned that as option rather than him coming to my place. How favorable that is depends on what a new (with core trade) control actually costs. He didn't know.... do any of you guys have some idea of the cost ?

(a bit of a gamble of course since he might come $$ and proclaim I need a new control anyway $$$...in which case it's double $$$$$ pain)

chad883 · Mar 31, 2021

Mits will clean, test, and repair your control. $$$ depends on how much needs repaired, but will be far cheaper than a replacement

Justin_Terry · Mar 31, 2021

they charge $640 for clean and inspect on controls. they will then quote the repair from what they find. Replacement control is going to be a fortune.

Dan from Oakland · Apr 3, 2021

Don- you said you swapped two wires- assuming the main ones to the machine. Try putting that back the way it was when the machine came up, and swap the hydraulic motor leads at the contactor instead. Might work? good luck. Try the stupid stuff 1st eh?

neilho · Apr 4, 2021

Could be that phase rotation was right 1st time around and there's another problem with the hydraulics. Could be.

Justin_Terry · Apr 5, 2021

incorrect phasing will NOT keep control from booting

Scruffy887 · Apr 9, 2021

I had a need to call Mazak support yesterday and talked to a tech that I know fairly well. I asked about a Relocation Device in a 2014 Smart Series. Answer was that RD use was spotty then, some machines had them, some not.

BT Fabrication · Apr 9, 2021

sounds like a main power supply issue, probably a couple dead caps or something from sitting

Justin_Terry · Apr 9, 2021

Scruffy887 said:
I had a need to call Mazak support yesterday and talked to a tech that I know fairly well. I asked about a Relocation Device in a 2014 Smart Series. Answer was that RD use was spotty then, some machines had them, some not.

if serial number is over 2XXXXX it most likely has an Relocation Device.

david1920 · May 4, 2022

you solved the problem?

2014 never used Mazak QT Smart 100S won't boot up mystery...

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