Copying Mazak floppys
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    Default Copying Mazak floppys

    G'day everyone,
    I know it's probably been asked before but has anyone been able to copy the system floppy discs and option discs for m32 controller. I would just like to make a backup in case of problems or even copy to a FDD emulator if possible

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    I have copied media to different formats since 1989.
    And as a sw/hw enthusiast and often professional at it, for decades.

    I don´t *know* that mazak floppies can be copied successfully - but also don´t know they cannot.
    Most stuff is simple, and some is not simple.

    Sometimes the install stuff expects a certain file/disc format/mbr/filesystem descriptor.
    I usually got around all that, and was paid for it, in the past.

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    Not sure but format the disks in the machine first then use normal dos pc and diskcopy command.

    Be sure to write protect.

    Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tony Quiring View Post
    Not sure but format the disks in the machine first then use normal dos pc and diskcopy command.

    Be sure to write protect.

    Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk
    Tony, the PC Can be used to copy these disks, BUT the the format and RPM of the disk drive is Not standard.
    Windows will try to format them for you automatically.
    The RPM (360) and # of tracks (77) is the same as the old 8" format but on 3.5" disks.

    First you need a 3.5" disk drive that can be configured to run at 360 RPM (standard is 300 RPM). These can be VERY hard to find.
    I use a Samsung SFD-321B (mine is an early version FBT1 that needs a soldered on jumper for 360 RPM)
    Manual is here: http://www.techtravels.org/wp-conten...21B-070103.pdf

    Using a DOS AT computer, the bios is setup for a 1.2 Meg 5 1/4" floppy, I use DOS 5.0.
    If things are working properly, you can format the 1.44 MB HD disk to 1.2 MB.

    The floppy controller is very critical, I use the Adaptec AHA-1522 or AHA-1542 Floppy & SCSI controller.
    There seems to be a good selection on fleabay right now.

    Then you need the proper program that is used to archive old disks.
    I use ImageDisk V1.10 by Dave Dunfield

    Start with some disks that are not important, that you can verify that you have made a good copy, before working on any high liability disks.


    Now for disks from a Mazak Microdisk (the blue box) these are 300 RPM drives but the track location is not standard.
    If you want to make long term backups of these, use the floppy drive from the microdisk, the drive select needs to be changed to work on the AT clone.
    The BIOS needs to be set for a 1.44 drive and ImageDisk will copy them just fine.

    Hope this helps.
    Bill


    P.S. Old HD floppies do have media failures based on age, most 20 year old disks the media has gone bad.

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    Can a pc drive read the originals?

    If so get the files copied to CD and there are many ways and some better than others in they capture the image of disk and create same.

    Been too link since 5 and 8 inch floppies...

    Others likely better here...using old DOS removes most automatic stuff but not sure how it handles odd formatting.



    Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tony Quiring View Post
    Can a pc drive read the originals?

    If so get the files copied to CD and there are many ways and some better than others in they capture the image of disk and create same.

    Been too link since 5 and 8 inch floppies...

    Others likely better here...using old DOS removes most automatic stuff but not sure how it handles odd formatting.



    Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk
    TONY, Messing around trying to read these odd format floppy disks without using the proper equipment is a recipe for disaster.
    These disks are NOT IBM compatible format!!!!! DOS and/or windows WILL try to format them for you and you may very well format it even with the write protect on. It is a real switch on the 3.5" and seen way too many fail!

    Read my post above yours. I have taken years to locate the correct equipment and software to do the job.

    There are NO shortcuts!

    Bill

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    Quote Originally Posted by hitandmiss View Post
    TONY, Messing around trying to read these odd format floppy disks without using the proper equipment is a recipe for disaster.
    These disks are NOT IBM compatible format!!!!! DOS and/or windows WILL try to format them for you and you may very well format it even with the write protect on. It is a real switch on the 3.5" and seen way too many fail!

    Read my post above yours. I have taken years to locate the correct equipment and software to do the job.

    There are NO shortcuts!

    Bill
    Mazak made nothing themselves. All this M32 T32 units is Mitsubishi M300 controls and FLOPPY is driven and formmated in Mitsubishi standard. You men overestimate power of MAzaky people as they always relied on Mitsubishi and basically hopeless when it comes to design their own software. All Mazatrol is just the shell, eventually all is driven by Mitsubishi people

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    Hi, I am about to do this on my multiplex 620 with T32-6 controller.
    The disks is in a Japanese standard and should be able to make images of.
    I have bought a Kryoflux floppycontroller and is planing to connect the T32 floppy to that to read the disks.
    Then I can make images of them and use a floppy emulator.
    I let you know how it works when I find the time for it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by benganboll View Post
    Hi, I am about to do this on my multiplex 620 with T32-6 controller.
    The disks is in a Japanese standard and should be able to make images of.
    I have bought a Kryoflux floppycontroller and is planing to connect the T32 floppy to that to read the disks.
    Then I can make images of them and use a floppy emulator.
    I let you know how it works when I find the time for it.
    Will be interested to see if it works

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    I can't help but think unix'"dd" command would do this in a jiffy. No windows/msdos asumptive bullshit formatting, simple bit by bit copy.

    Not sure about the RPM thing, but you can set disk "geometry" with fdparm for the requred number of tracks etc.

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    I can't help but think unix'"dd" command would do this in a jiffy. No windows/msdos asumptive bullshit formatting, simple bit by bit copy.

    Not sure about the RPM thing, but you can set disk "geometry" with fdparm for the requred number of tracks etc.

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    you cant just do bit by bit COPY as you need location of tracks info, or whatever they call it physical location of bits. you need a cluster size. spindle RPM, speed to shift reading head, and heaps of other info to copy a floppy. it is all fantasies. Best way to approach it is put a scrambler on data line an record whatever is transmitted into NC when it boots, and then just simulate it with simple PIC controller.

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    No.
    (yes.)
    The post #4 is very good.

    Linux free utilities can make any form of any filesystem, but they require the right hw setup.
    So, as post #4 said, it may require using unusual speeds in rpm / format to get the right base media setup.

    I myself have done the same, multiple times, like for Xenix 386 to 3.5" floppies vs 5 ", and for Novell Netware 286 from floppies, and many other cases.
    And 1M$ (non)linear video editing systems, to get them to boot from a new HD vs the old floppy drive- while thinking its a floppy.

    And lately using flash drives to boot embedded windoz systems - changing the fs descriptor to avoid the nonsensical "hdd error" bit.
    (Due to ((removable)) fs descriptive fragmentation about 15 years ago).



    Quote Originally Posted by MihiT View Post
    I can't help but think unix'"dd" command would do this in a jiffy. No windows/msdos asumptive bullshit formatting, simple bit by bit copy.

    Not sure about the RPM thing, but you can set disk "geometry" with fdparm for the requred number of tracks etc.

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    Success!!!
    My kryoflux card did not like the floppy drive in my T32-6 so I had to modify another floppy drive to spin at 360 rpm instead of the normal 300 rpm.
    Then I did an image of the disk and converted the image to a format accepted by a floppy emulator.
    So now I boot my T32-6 on a USB stick instead of the floppy, still slow but its a more robust solution.

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    Quote Originally Posted by benganboll View Post
    Success!!!
    My kryoflux card did not like the floppy drive in my T32-6 so I had to modify another floppy drive to spin at 360 rpm instead of the normal 300 rpm.
    Then I did an image of the disk and converted the image to a format accepted by a floppy emulator.
    So now I boot my T32-6 on a USB stick instead of the floppy, still slow but its a more robust solution.
    That's excellent news. Will have to look into it soon. The system shouldn't boot from the floppy every time. Only when it hasn't been run for a while and battery is down on charge. I'm using non genuine batteries which are much cheaper than Mazak so I put 2 sets on each battery position. Hook them up in parallel not in series and this fixed the problem. Another idea that was suggested to me is to get a 3.6v trickle charger and hook it up to all the batteries and leave it on at all times. Hook it up to a permanent on power supply so batteries are always charged.

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    Quote Originally Posted by sudsy55 View Post
    Another idea that was suggested to me is to get a 3.6v trickle charger and hook it up to all the batteries and leave it on at all times. Hook it up to a permanent on power supply so batteries are always charged.
    American Tool did this for years. The controls had an independent 110 v line that was just a small power supply for the memory. The exec just stayed in RAM, you didn't have to boot the control every time you turned it on. All you had to do was make sure no one accidentally flipped that circuit breaker off

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    Quote Originally Posted by sudsy55 View Post
    Another idea that was suggested to me is to get a 3.6v trickle charger and hook it up to all the batteries and leave it on at all times. Hook it up to a permanent on power supply so batteries are always charged.
    I dont know if all T32/M32 has the same battery solution but my T32-6 has a 3,6 volt battery to hold parameters and other data in memory and a 6 volt lead acid battery to hold the system data to prevent it from boot from floppy every time. I did put a charger on the 6 volt battery and it wont boot on floppy even if it been turned of for weeks.
    But if you run like that for years the floppy can/will loose data over the years and the day you need it it wont work.


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