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    Default H400 Pallet issue

    G'day all,
    I have a H400 twin pallet horizontal that i'm setting up for the first time to use. I wrote a small program just to rotate the table and it unclamped, raised up and partially rotated. Then stopped. Now because I have since turned the machine off since this happening I can't do anything as I can't home the machine due to the table not being at zero. The only info I could find in the manuals tells you how to manually do it but requires the machine to be homed to do it. Question is is there some way of releasing the table and returning it to zero manually besides pulling bits apart?

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    Quote Originally Posted by sudsy55 View Post
    G'day all,
    I have a H400 twin pallet horizontal that i'm setting up for the first time to use. I wrote a small program just to rotate the table and it unclamped, raised up and partially rotated. Then stopped. Now because I have since turned the machine off since this happening I can't do anything as I can't home the machine due to the table not being at zero. The only info I could find in the manuals tells you how to manually do it but requires the machine to be homed to do it. Question is is there some way of releasing the table and returning it to zero manually besides pulling bits apart?
    and you cant home it cause axis interlock alarm?

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    Quote Originally Posted by noname777 View Post
    and you cant home it cause axis interlock alarm?
    Correct. I can't do anything

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    Quote Originally Posted by sudsy55 View Post
    Correct. I can't do anything
    unless there is special way, some hidden buttons you must press, then

    -you either disconnect PC proxies from PLC and feed your +24 DC instead, to let machine know that PC is at zero position degree and clamped and so on.

    -or, somehow go into PLC and try to force (need to find it before) ALL AXIS HOME bit, and hope that PC part of ladder will work and then you home it ( PC) from machine maintenance menu

    -or, I have this M32 control drawing and among parameters I see two:
    R2102 ( M1038 ) -cycle start before zero return
    R2104 (M5015) -Interlock neglect by M.FAIL PB

    I wonder if M5015 is what you need , you sort of press and hold this button and move machine even if it has interlocks bit zero??? but that is M32 control

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    Mine is M32 control. There are a couple of solenoids that control the pallet lock and rotation but have to take the x slideway cover off to get to them. Unfortunately x is at home position so can't get cover off. Catch 22 lol. Might see if I can get to the x drive motor and wind it across by hand and go from there. I'm not too smart when it comes to plc's lol

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    x and Y , shouldnt be any problem to move by hand. Z -has brakes. Try this PLC bit that I found above, it might work. I will try to find a page how to change PLC bit on M32 control.

    and solenoids , you can always force them from DIAGNOSTIC screen ( it is possible) or directly from electrical cabinet, just disconnect solid states relay ON signals and feed your +24 DC. But again, must be done by someone who knows what he is doing

    here is the link, this file is available from internet for ages, page 16 explains how to change PLC bit. before you do anything always take a picture of these bits before change.

    Uploadfiles.io - m32 maintenance display.pdf

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    Thanks noname. I will have a look at this later and see how I go.

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    Quote Originally Posted by sudsy55 View Post
    Thanks noname. I will have a look at this later and see how I go.
    there must be a way without pulling everything apart , 100%. what if it happens one more time?

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    Having the pallet rotated should not stop you homing the machine. I have a H400 with an M Plus control and I can home that at any B axis angle. Can you confirm if the pallet is still un-clamped? You said that you did an MDI B axis command that caused it to rotate and stop, it sounds as if the pallet didn't lower and re-clamp, this would lock you out of other functionality.
    Not sure on an M32 but on the M plus there is a "Machine" soft key which then allows you to manually control the pallet and atc, you should have something similar that will allow you to try and re-clamp the pallet.

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    Quote Originally Posted by noname777 View Post
    there must be a way without pulling everything apart , 100%. what if it happens one more time?
    I'm sure there is. Knowing what Mazak are like with their information it will be one of those scenarios where you have to rub your bell cw, rub your head ccw and scratch your butt from top to bottom and this will happen. Would be nice to find a list of all these special commands that we could use but don't even know if one exists.

    Quote Originally Posted by will_0000 View Post
    Having the pallet rotated should not stop you homing the machine. I have a H400 with an M Plus control and I can home that at any B axis angle. Can you confirm if the pallet is still un-clamped? You said that you did an MDI B axis command that caused it to rotate and stop, it sounds as if the pallet didn't lower and re-clamp, this would lock you out of other functionality.
    Not sure on an M32 but on the M plus there is a "Machine" soft key which then allows you to manually control the pallet and atc, you should have something similar that will allow you to try and re-clamp the pallet.
    Yes there is a softkey for the pallet but the only thing it does is open the door. Nothing else is functional. Now I have another issue with the pallet changer rotated(I was manually operating the solenoids). Unfortunately I can't get it to rotate back. This machine is new to me so I was probably the problem to start with and now it's just escalating. Oh well, just another learning curve. By the way when I rotated the table I just wrote a small program in Mazatrol to do it. I couldn't get it to rotate with the softkeys then either. I think it unclamped as the air blast was on and got no errors but no movement

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    Quote Originally Posted by sudsy55 View Post
    I'm sure there is. Knowing what Mazak are like with their information it will be one of those scenarios where you have to rub your bell cw, rub your head ccw and scratch your butt from top to bottom and this will happen. Would be nice to find a list of all these special commands that we could use but don't even know if one exists.



    Yes there is a softkey for the pallet but the only thing it does is open the door. Nothing else is functional. Now I have another issue with the pallet changer rotated(I was manually operating the solenoids). Unfortunately I can't get it to rotate back. This machine is new to me so I was probably the problem to start with and now it's just escalating. Oh well, just another learning curve. By the way when I rotated the table I just wrote a small program in Mazatrol to do it. I couldn't get it to rotate with the softkeys then either. I think it unclamped as the air blast was on and got no errors but no movement
    looks like you need someone else help. Someone who can trace all problems back to PLC and how it is built on this particular machine. All this softkeys are going directly into PLC and that is where machine is looking at hips of conditions before you can move any part of PC.

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    I did manage to get the pallet change back to where it should be but still can't rotate the table back to zero and can't home the machine due to outside interlock error. I also tried the axis override and the manual handwheel to move the X but get the same error I have to take the X axis guards of to get to the table solenoids anyway as there is an oil leak there and I have 2 new ones anyway. Have been looking through the info I have but can't find how to override that error so I don't have to wind the X by hand as it is very awkward to get to

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    open the covers and manually move the Z with the machine off?

    We have a HTC 400 with M+ control, if your table is up not much is going to happen, I had to do this the other day, it just hangs up some times, these machines do not like to sit around, things just get sticky.
    ON the HTC the table travels in the Z, push the manual override and get the Z out of the pallet change position and MDI pallet clamp, do not worry about anything else, move to and fro, turn on the machine, turn it off, turn it on, MDI unclamp, clamp eventually it will clamp, it may take an hour or so.
    You should be able to just use call up the pallet, M71, M72 it should sequence, do no not ever unclamp the pallet or open the door during pallet change, all sorts of weird stuff happens, on the HTC if het door is opened while pallet changing it goes to a safety mode and it takes about an hour to rotate but you can turn it off and crack the hydraulics and rotate by hand.
    If you are working with a machine that has been sitting just keep moving stuff, all

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    Quote Originally Posted by landm1 View Post
    open the covers and manually move the Z with the machine off?

    We have a HTC 400 with M+ control, if your table is up not much is going to happen, I had to do this the other day, it just hangs up some times, these machines do not like to sit around, things just get sticky.
    ON the HTC the table travels in the Z, push the manual override and get the Z out of the pallet change position and MDI pallet clamp, do not worry about anything else, move to and fro, turn on the machine, turn it off, turn it on, MDI unclamp, clamp eventually it will clamp, it may take an hour or so.
    You should be able to just use call up the pallet, M71, M72 it should sequence, do no not ever unclamp the pallet or open the door during pallet change, all sorts of weird stuff happens, on the HTC if het door is opened while pallet changing it goes to a safety mode and it takes about an hour to rotate but you can turn it off and crack the hydraulics and rotate by hand.
    If you are working with a machine that has been sitting just keep moving stuff, all
    I had no problem homeing the machine or moving axis prior to the current problem. I just need to get the X axis across so I can get to the indexing solenoids under the way cover. Once I get to them I should be able to get it sorted

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    Quote Originally Posted by sudsy55 View Post
    I had no problem homeing the machine or moving axis prior to the current problem. I just need to get the X axis across so I can get to the indexing solenoids under the way cover. Once I get to them I should be able to get it sorted
    here is something else for you, PLC has sort of memory bits to remember machine status, like M and F, then it has bits like L, these are funny ones ,they are backed with battery. Say.. you run machine and it stops in the middle of tool change and PC movement due to the power failure.
    Machine obviously lost a track what it was doing, but once the power is back , PLC will look at L bits to see what was the last status of machine before power failure.

    Now, if you during the power failure , you managed to move all the parts into where there are supposed to be manually, it might happens that these L bits still tell machine that something isnt right.

    and that is why you should try to enable M relay:
    R2104 (M5015) -Interlock neglect by M.FAIL PB
    and try to use this option

    and I hope this is how you fix it

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    Quote Originally Posted by noname777 View Post
    here is something else for you, PLC has sort of memory bits to remember machine status, like M and F, then it has bits like L, these are funny ones ,they are backed with battery. Say.. you run machine and it stops in the middle of tool change and PC movement due to the power failure.
    Machine obviously lost a track what it was doing, but once the power is back , PLC will look at L bits to see what was the last status of machine before power failure.

    Now, if you during the power failure , you managed to move all the parts into where there are supposed to be manually, it might happens that these L bits still tell machine that something isnt right.

    and that is why you should try to enable M relay:
    R2104 (M5015) -Interlock neglect by M.FAIL PB
    and try to use this option

    and I hope this is how you fix it
    I didn't have a power failure. The table just stopped part way through the indexing. I have however come up with a possible cause for that. Could possibly be a broken belt on the indexer. Once I get some new O rings for the leaky solenoids I will move the table back where it was and take the cover off the other end so I can get to it. Won't be till later in the week though

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    Quote Originally Posted by sudsy55 View Post
    I didn't have a power failure. The table just stopped part way through the indexing. I have however come up with a possible cause for that. Could possibly be a broken belt on the indexer. Once I get some new O rings for the leaky solenoids I will move the table back where it was and take the cover off the other end so I can get to it. Won't be till later in the week though
    i was speaking hypothetically. hydraulic solenoids can leak as much as they want. what kills them is dirty oil that damages valve spool.

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    Quote Originally Posted by noname777 View Post
    i was speaking hypothetically. hydraulic solenoids can leak as much as they want. what kills them is dirty oil that damages valve spool.
    Nothing wrong with the solenoids except that they are dumping oil everywhere so thought I might as well fix them while I have it apart. I actually have 2 spare spools that came with the machine so that should see it through for a while. Will let you know what I find at the other end.

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    Ok. An update. Replaced the leaking solenoids and all the O rings (they came with the spares so might as well fix as I go) Managed to rotate the table manually back to zero. The I could home the machine. All good. Ran the program again to index the table and unlocked and rotated part way and stopped. No errors. Ok that's strange. Changed the program to read -20 deg's and ran it. Turned back to nearly zero. Tried a few more changes to see what would happen and all worked as it should except for the fact that zero was actually at 23 deg's. Seems it lost its place. Back to the book. Tells me to set the zero search switch and a couple of procedures then at the end it says that tis switch was deleted on the M32. Well fk. Doesn't tell you what to do if you don't have the switch. Kept going through all the manuals I had and found nothing else. Just thought I would have a good look around the machine and lo and behold I open the little door for the micro disc and tape control and what do I find?? The zero search switch that the manual told me was deleted. Followed the procedure and all good. I wish they would get their fkn information right before they write the manuals Now I will fix a hydraulic leak when the seal arrives tomorrow and a couple of air leaks and start setting up tools. Still have a couple of questions but will get these other issues sorted first. Oh and get another battery for the indexer drive. Yhanks to all that contributed. I have learnt so much from here and through trial and error due to stubbornness and not wanting to pay megabucks for something I can possibly sort myself.

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    Quote Originally Posted by sudsy55 View Post
    Ok. An update. Replaced the leaking solenoids and all the O rings (they came with the spares so might as well fix as I go) Managed to rotate the table manually back to zero. The I could home the machine. All good. Ran the program again to index the table and unlocked and rotated part way and stopped. No errors. Ok that's strange. Changed the program to read -20 deg's and ran it. Turned back to nearly zero. Tried a few more changes to see what would happen and all worked as it should except for the fact that zero was actually at 23 deg's. Seems it lost its place. Back to the book. Tells me to set the zero search switch and a couple of procedures then at the end it says that tis switch was deleted on the M32. Well fk. Doesn't tell you what to do if you don't have the switch. Kept going through all the manuals I had and found nothing else. Just thought I would have a good look around the machine and lo and behold I open the little door for the micro disc and tape control and what do I find?? The zero search switch that the manual told me was deleted. Followed the procedure and all good. I wish they would get their fkn information right before they write the manuals Now I will fix a hydraulic leak when the seal arrives tomorrow and a couple of air leaks and start setting up tools. Still have a couple of questions but will get these other issues sorted first. Oh and get another battery for the indexer drive. Yhanks to all that contributed. I have learnt so much from here and through trial and error due to stubbornness and not wanting to pay megabucks for something I can possibly sort myself.
    looks like few people had this drama before and on M plus and FUSION controls they changed it into M178 and M179 codes to search 0 degree position for magazine and table, where you command M code and unit moves until it sees 0 proxy switch. The confusion is that some of this M32 machines have M/T controller to index table, some have NC rotary table configuration (servo amplifier). It is all about options. I guess NC rotary table works like 4th axis and gives more machining freedom. I guess. I wonder if your M/T controller actually was signaling you that it has lost home position and battery was empty. Hahah. It is 40 years old design, lucky you fix it finally!

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