Help with mazak 510C Nexus ATC reset

I thought I had figured the tool changers on these machines out, but I guess I was wrong. We just bought a new mill and the tool changer has been the biggest problem!

These machines use two servo drives for the tool changer, one rotates a tool belt and the other moves an arm that loads the spindle. Both of the batteries in these drives were dead, so I replaced them. After that I was getting an absolute position alarm on the drives. Mazak includes a little program "J2ctbus" that teaches these drives their parameters and home positions again, I did that and now neither of the drives are flashing any alarms.

The machine is still stuck with a few alarms though, and that's where I'm stuck. The alarms I'm getting are "310 - Tool Holder Sol. All off Malf." "292 - No unload (arm/shifter pos error)" "293 - No Tool Unload (mag pos error)" and "368 - holder up incomplete."

Some of these came from jerking around with the machine, others were already there. After resetting the absolute positions in the servo drives the only alarm we were getting was 292, arm/shifter pos error. We could move the tool changer arm around with the F0 menu keys, but we couldn't orient the spindle, home the z, or get the arm to go through one full revolution though it would move a bit.

Then we messed with the magazine for some reason, somehow it ended up between two tool pockets when someone hit the soft key for "tool holder up" Now the tool holder is trying to go up in between two pockets on the belt. It's ignoring the tool holder down soft key, and the magazine lost it's position after that fiasco.

Both drives are still showing as OK, they both still have absolute position. I can't reteach the absolute position from the j2ctbus program any more. All of the alarms are yellow and will clear with a reset except for the "310 - tool holder sol. all off malf." alarm. It is in red and automatically re-sets itself. The yellow alarms will re-set with any tool changer commands.

Now that I've got to thinking a bit I think the 310 alarm might be a popped thermal reset switch, I'll have to go check on that. I'm still not entirely sure how to get the tool arm and magazine to home out though, and I think it might be a setting in the privileged parameters that turns on the "ATC home" softkeys.

Anyway, I figured I'd ask in case anyone knew the process off the tops of their heads. I'll keep pluggin' away at it in the meantime!

I don't have a 510, but I have other machines with similar setups. When you went to the MR-J2 software, did you do the "absolute position restore", or did you actually try to re-teach the home position? As long as the ATC and drum still have the correct positions, everything should be dandy.

All of your other alarms are probably just stuff that's out of sequence - and maybe one tripped thermal like you were thinking. Do you have the manuals, and have you called Mazak?

If you go to the machine function page, and then the ATC OP or ATC MAINT page, there should be a series of buttons for the ATC arm. One of them should be lit up pink. If none of them are, that means your ATC arm is in no mans land. As you're probably aware - you can't orient the spindle, or move the Z axis, because the machine doesn't know where a bunch of stuff is, and is protecting itself from self destruction.

The "No tool unload" means you're trying to put away a tool where it's not supposed to be. That should probably go away if you can get the pocket back down into ATC position.

The "Arm/shifter pos error" is likely from the tool pocket being forced in between two pockets. There's a sequence of prox switches that are now out of order because the pocket got forced up there. The machine shouldn't have let that happen unless somebody was holding the MF key when they hit the soft key to put the tool pocket away.

Here's what I'd try to do:

-Check to see if the ATC arm is in one of the pink positions.
-Find the thermal (hopefully) that tripped when the tool pocket got jammed to the wrong place, and have somebody hold the soft key that tries to send the pocket back down to the correct place while you reset the thermal.
-Use the MF key, and the spindle orient and Z home buttons in the ATC OP or ATC MAINT menu to get the spindle back to tool change position and oriented.
-Jog the magazine drum using the keys in the ATC OP or ATC MAINT screen, not the MR-J2 software. Jog it a few times and make sure it always stops with a tool pocket lined up in the right place.

At that point you should have no alarms. Good luck!

need to check to make sure that under the diagnos I/F screen need to make sure the it+, it- is highlighted yellow. if they are not yellow then you will not be able to move with the software

Joe,

I used the MR-J2 software to do the absolute position repair, the drives no longer flash the absolute position repair alarm. This fixed the drum, it would rotate with the mazatrol softkeys but it didn't fix the tool arm. The tool arm would move, but it would only move up to the point where the spindle was supposed to release the tool. After that it wouldn't move any more and any tool change would bring back the "292- no unload arm shifter pos error" alarm. Moving the Z or orienting the spindle would trip that alarm again. I tried the process to rehome the arm after a stop or crash, but none of my soft keys would stay pink. They'd light up but immediately go right back out.

I never got the drum or arm to move with the MR-J2 software, if I try to move anything that way now I get an interlock engaged alarm on the servo drives themselves and nothing moves. Doesn't look like I'm rotating the drum that way to let the tool pocket go back up, and not even the MF key will bring the thing back down. If I can get that thing out of the way I think I can fix the rest of the problems.

I'm sure the rest of the alarms are from stuff being out of sequence now, but I'm not really sure how to put everything back like it should be. There are no thermal relays that tripped, so it looks like I might have some big problems. None of these alarms are in any manuals either, they go up to something like 200, then skip all the way over to 400. I've been thorough them all and none have them. Whats the point of alarms if I can't decode the gibberish they spit out at me!

Thanks for the advice, it's helped me figure things out a bit more!

Jerry,

When you say move with the software, which do you mean? Mazatrol or the J2-CTBUS program?

When you were jogging the tool arm - it won't go past the spindle because it's waiting for you to unclamp the spindle manually with the soft keys. Are you able to move the Z axis to the ATC position and orient the spindle using the soft keys in the ATC MAINT menu and holding the MF keys? (If this is a Matrix control there are two MF keys you need to hold down, if it's Fusion, there's one)

Which alarms do you still have right this minute? I've never looked at the ATC ready pocket on a 510 up close and personal - what actually moves the pocket up and down? Is it hydraulic? Pneumatic? Can you power the machine completely down, and then mechanically move it back down to the ready position so it's not jammed in the drum? If you can force that back down, it should solve almost all of your problems.

Joe788 said:

When you were jogging the tool arm - it won't go past the spindle because it's waiting for you to unclamp the spindle manually with the soft keys. Are you able to move the Z axis to the ATC position and orient the spindle using the soft keys in the ATC MAINT menu and holding the MF keys? (If this is a Matrix control there are two MF keys you need to hold down, if it's Fusion, there's one)

Which alarms do you still have right this minute? I've never looked at the ATC ready pocket on a 510 up close and personal - what actually moves the pocket up and down? Is it hydraulic? Pneumatic? Can you power the machine completely down, and then mechanically move it back down to the ready position so it's not jammed in the drum? If you can force that back down, it should solve almost all of your problems.

Click to expand...

Well I finally got it going again. I'm not exactly sure what I was doing wrong to begin with, but this is how I fixed it. Hopefully this can help someone on down the line.

I'm not sure what exactly moves the tool pocket, figuring that out would mean climbing up in the machine. I'm nearly certain they are spring loaded and nothing but a solenoid releases to let them extend downward. Not sure what pushes them back up exactly though. We just got this machine and it's still a royal mess inside, didn't much want to crawl around in there!

The tool pocket was somewhere in the middle of a cycle, so I turned the machine off and pried down on it. I felt a hard bump and it shifted down a few degrees and locked hard! I tried bringing it back up, but once whatever it was clicked it wasn't moving any more. I fired the machine back up and used the MF key to drop it back down. One alarm down, several to go. I did have it do something weird to me after this though, I was rotating through the drum and it hit a pocket it wouldn't advance pass. I heard a loud clunk like a hard crash, so I took the belt back the other way slowly. The clunk never came back and I've taken the thing a few revolutions each way, guess it was just a glitch...

I was still getting shifter/arm pos error alarms at this point. I couldn't orient the spindle or z axis with the MF key so I skipped those. Luckily the Z was close, or at, ATC position so it wasn't much to worry about. At this point the arm was as close to it's home position as I could get it by eye, the J2CTBus program shows a degree readout on the position of the arm. I was at 350 something, so really close to home. The spindle "walks" the dogs over into the arm as it rotates towards the spindle nose, so I don't think it needs to be oriented to do a tool change.

Something was still messed up though, I used unclamp OK to release the tool (this is the first step of the ATC home procedure on the door of the machine) but the arm wouldn't move past the point where it's supposed to drop the taper from the spindle. It would go to that position and sit there. So I clamped the spindle again and shut the machine down with the arm mid swing. This seems to be what fixed it all, and I still don't know why. After I turned the machine back on I tried the ATC home procedure again, the arm immediately dropped and completed the tool change. Oh, I did have to cycle the clamp/unclamp halfway through that process still. So, from what I can figure the arm was too close to its home position to home out properly. Either that or the batteries dying with it parked at the home position screwed with it, either way I'm just glad it works again...

A few more things...

The procedure says the lights for tool arm rotation will light up as you home it out. They blink as you press these buttons at seemingly random intervals. Don't pay attention to the blinking, you need them to light up and stay lit.

Don't use the MF keys to raise the tool pocket (doh!) The tool arm will not move unless a pocket is lowered. You have to lower any pocket to home the ATC.

The J2CTbus program has an alarm menu option that shows long code for alarms on the drive, these helped me out a bit. There's a history of alarms that is pretty useful too. If the arm/drum doesn't look like it's doing anything look at the display of these drives BEFORE you hit the reset key. They will show useful alarms that Mazatrol won't, some also clear when you hit reset on the control.

The F0 menu options for drum forward/reverse do not index the tool belt to the next pocket, they just rotate it. The ATC Menu buttons of the same name index the belt. You can't use the ATC Menu keys to home the ATC arm, you have to use the F0 menu. Once it's homed out properly the ATC menu keys will move it like it should.

The stupid little door lock by the tool belt has a mechanical override. Look for the little arrow with a standard screwdriver slot midway down the front.

Thanks again for the help Joe! I really appreciate it!!

VTC 300C recommissioning problems

Justin_Terry said:

need to check to make sure that under the diagnos I/F screen need to make sure the it+, it- is highlighted yellow. if they are not yellow then you will not be able to move with the software

Click to expand...

I am in the process of recommissioning a VTC300C that was in store for 2 years. NC battery and MR-J2 batterys replaced ...... parameters restored......etc etc. Everything seemed to be working until I did a real tool change. It looked like the pocket was a little misaligned and the tool didn't fully go it. One of the MR-J2's tripped on overload, I think. Anyway get everythin out and started all over again.

Now it+ and it- are not yellow. Only the x axis will move. No move on y or z axis.

When I do the absolute position resotore on the ATC drive it seems like everything is going correctly. The code on the drive changes fron Z02 to Z05. But after power down it is back to Z02.

It looks like I first need to get the it+ and it- yellow and I am now lost. Help please?

bogman said:

I am in the process of recommissioning a VTC300C that was in store for 2 years. NC battery and MR-J2 batterys replaced ...... parameters restored......etc etc. Everything seemed to be working until I did a real tool change. It looked like the pocket was a little misaligned and the tool didn't fully go it. One of the MR-J2's tripped on overload, I think. Anyway get everythin out and started all over again.

Now it+ and it- are not yellow. Only the x axis will move. No move on y or z axis.

When I do the absolute position resotore on the ATC drive it seems like everything is going correctly. The code on the drive changes fron Z02 to Z05. But after power down it is back to Z02.

It looks like I first need to get the it+ and it- yellow and I am now lost. Help please?

Click to expand...

these it+ and it- , interlocks coming from PLC into MR-J2 registers. There 4 registers in PLC, you can actually trace them in ladder and see exactly why it+ and - not activated.

Z02 looks like reference position lost?

you can only move X, cause column is moving with ATC mechanism. For to be able to move Y and Z axises, machine needs to be sure ATC swing arm is at home.

Did you restore ABS home position for MAGAZINE and ATC as well? Both of them? Go to MR-J2 select one axis and then another, then go into input/outputs and take a picture for both units. What else is there? This IO page tells you exactly what PLC wants from MR-j2 drive and current status of drive itself.

P.S M1125 PLC interlock bit for VTC200B machine, not sure if it is the same for VTC300C. You can disable it if you force from machine diagnostic screen. Try not to crash your machine, or it is going to be lots of drama.

Really appreciate your input. Even though it is late Sunday evening I am going to go step by step through your suggestions.
I had no trouble restoring the ABS position on the MAGAZINE and there is no errors showing on that drive.
The drawings and circuits I have say VTC200/300 so I presume they are the same for both machines. Incidently, we also have a VTC200C which is working fine.

Attached are the I/O screens for the MAGAZINE and the ATC from the MRJ2CTbus program.

See this ATC pic you uploaded , ZSN is yellow. Book says next: ZSN Absolute position loss

see these AL4 for both of them are ON? If you open ARALM window in MR-J2 app you can actually see some errors and their meaning.


Abbreviation AL4 Signal name Alarm 4 CTST2.bitA
This signal indicates that an operation alarm or absolute position alarm has occurred.


any way. Some of these Mazaks have hidden menu for ATC and MAGAZINE reference point return/recovery/maintenance. You either try to restore ABS home ATC position in MR-J2 software by reloading parameters, or you do it manually, God knows how, you JOG or STEP ATC into position where ATC arm is at home position, or you try to ACTIVATE hidden menu for this particular VTC300B machine and try to use screen functions.

The absolute position on the ATC is indeed lost. And on the error screen it is showing "Z70 0002 abs reference point disappearance". And that is the error that is flashing on the drive.
I can go through the motions of restoring the Abs Position and everything seems to go right. But when I power down and power up again I am back to square 1.
After I restore the abs zero I think I need to jog the spindle but I cant do this because of the it+ and it-. But this is an amateur speaking!!

why is that you lose ABS position after power cycling? Is battery fully charged?

Why do you need jog spindle?

after ABS position is restored (make sure you reload params when TEST mode window is minimized), and error message is gone (you go in MR-J2 software and you press CLEAR ALARM). Move machine itno second home position ( which is tool change) press M19 in MDI for orientation and try to do tool change.

noname, you are a star. This time I followed your instructions step by step and, that's it, ATC Malfunction Alarm cleared. I think I had not been reloading the parameters as you had suggested. Now. I think it is time for a pint before bed and I'll get back to it tomorrow. Next time you are on this side of the world I'd be delighted to buy you a pint or aven a gallon.
I'll get back to getting the atc to function correctly tomorrow and I'l report.

bogman said:

noname, you are a star. This time I followed your instructions step by step and, that's it, ATC Malfunction Alarm cleared. I think I had not been reloading the parameters as you had suggested. Now. I think it is time for a pint before bed and I'll get back to it tomorrow. Next time you are on this side of the world I'd be delighted to buy you a pint or aven a gallon.
I'll get back to getting the atc to function correctly tomorrow and I'l report.

Click to expand...

well I was just guessing. No more

back to square 1

bogman said:

noname, you are a star. This time I followed your instructions step by step and, that's it, ATC Malfunction Alarm cleared. I think I had not been reloading the parameters as you had suggested. Now. I think it is time for a pint before bed and I'll get back to it tomorrow. Next time you are on this side of the world I'd be delighted to buy you a pint or aven a gallon.
I'll get back to getting the atc to function correctly tomorrow and I'l report.

Click to expand...

Everything seemed to be going great this morning. X, Y, Z all zeroed up, no errors. Went to do a tool change. ATC malfunction error.

Now the present situation.

Run MR-J2CTbus. Errors: Z70 0002 ABS Reference Point disappearance
M01 0101 No operation mode

Select test and minimise.

Select Parameters, Repair ABS. Position. Message box. Writing was completed. The absolute position repair data will be valid after power off.

Error page: Z70 0005 ABS. Position Rebuilt.
M01 0101 No operation mode.

Shut down and power off. Power on again and go to square 1, just like snakes and ladders!!

I have no idea what is wrong or what I am doing wrong.

Well, I have been away from it for a few days but now back at it. I can report some success and some more roadblocks. I got the code to enter privilege mode from Mazak and the code to disable the interlocks on the ATC Drive. I now have no errors. But both the ATC and Magazine are M0 01, that is "No operation". This is because the intelocks from the NC are not enable, in other words, the it+ and it- on both drives are not yellow.

I can only zero the X axis.

If I try to do and MDI M19 (spindle orient) I get "282 No orient (ATC ARM POS. ERROR)".

As usual, any help would be appreciated and I'll keep the world informed on progress.

I'm getting close to throwing the towel in and getting Mazak out but I don't like being beaten.

bogman said:

Well, I have been away from it for a few days but now back at it. I can report some success and some more roadblocks. I got the code to enter privilege mode from Mazak and the code to disable the interlocks on the ATC Drive. I now have no errors. But both the ATC and Magazine are M0 01, that is "No operation". This is because the intelocks from the NC are not enable, in other words, the it+ and it- on both drives are not yellow.

I can only zero the X axis.

If I try to do and MDI M19 (spindle orient) I get "282 No orient (ATC ARM POS. ERROR)".

As usual, any help would be appreciated and I'll keep the world informed on progress.

I'm getting close to throwing the towel in and getting Mazak out but I don't like being beaten.

Click to expand...

try to swap these two MR-J2 amps, ATC and Magazine. What if ATC amp is doggy? Cant hold its home position?

can you actually setup home position? Sort of JOG arm into somewhere and press SET ABS home position, instead of recovering from the backup file? What if backup file doesnt really have correct ABS position for MR-J2 ATC amp?

I'm pretty certain there is nothing wrong with the amplifiers or motors. The problem seems to be the interlock it+ and it- coming from the NC. I need to know what is needed so that these interlocks are enabled. I think there is something in the NC error mesage. It is error 282 No orient (ATC ARM Pos. Error). I'm guessing here a bit but I think the NC doesn't believe the ATC is in the right position or doesn't know where it is. Jerry.

you can go and trace interlocks in ladder and see exactly where they are coming from. I have a ladder for VTC machine somewhere on my Laptop, will try to do it tonight. I mean to check these interlock bits. Go to PLC and check F82 error bit, and this is where 282 error is originated. Then moving up ladder, step by step you find it.