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Quick Turn 10n Spindle Issue

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Nov 11, 2018
I'm working on bringing up a 1986 Quick Turn 10n/ T-2 control. Everything works fine (Servos, Turret, Robot Tool Measure Arm, Hydraulics, Tail Stock) except the spindle. When I try to run the spindle it throws the 20 NMI Emergency Stop and the 204 Spindle Controller Malfunction.

The weird thing is that when I first powered it up (I have the transformer tapped for 240 3ph), I could jog the spindle but do little else. I had to reset the parity using the #2 dip switch at the NC rack. Afterwards, I was able to run everything else but not the spindle. The Drive is getting power, I don't get any red error lights unless I try to jog the spindle (trying to "start" the spindle only brings up an "spindle misoperation" error, which is easy to clear at the control). I'm getting power to the FR-SE Drive boards, I'm getting the grean "Ready", "Speed Detection" and "Zero Speed" LED's on the drive.


With the exception of the Parity Error LED at the NC Rack that I cleared, I don't get any error lights and everything else seems fine with the control. I cleared the internal memory and reloaded the Parameters and I'm getting the same results. I have air pressure, I have the chip conveyor/Coolant/Hydraulics hooked up and functional. All the fans spin freely and run when the machine is switched on. The chuck is closed. I home X and Z.

This Mazak is new to me and I'm new to Mazak's with the exception of some light operating during my apprentice days. Do I have to have tools defined in order to jog the spindle, or run it?


I've searched the forums and I'm out of things to try. The motor spins freely, and I've gone so far as hooking it directly to a power source (after disconnecting from the control) and it run fine (and quietly).

Any direction would be greatly appreciated, I can post up any additional information that might help. I'm at my wits end.


Thanks,
-Bill
 
I'm working on bringing up a 1986 Quick Turn 10n/ T-2 control. Everything works fine (Servos, Turret, Robot Tool Measure Arm, Hydraulics, Tail Stock) except the spindle. When I try to run the spindle it throws the 20 NMI Emergency Stop and the 204 Spindle Controller Malfunction.

The weird thing is that when I first powered it up (I have the transformer tapped for 240 3ph), I could jog the spindle but do little else. I had to reset the parity using the #2 dip switch at the NC rack. Afterwards, I was able to run everything else but not the spindle. The Drive is getting power, I don't get any red error lights unless I try to jog the spindle (trying to "start" the spindle only brings up an "spindle misoperation" error, which is easy to clear at the control). I'm getting power to the FR-SE Drive boards, I'm getting the grean "Ready", "Speed Detection" and "Zero Speed" LED's on the drive.


With the exception of the Parity Error LED at the NC Rack that I cleared, I don't get any error lights and everything else seems fine with the control. I cleared the internal memory and reloaded the Parameters and I'm getting the same results. I have air pressure, I have the chip conveyor/Coolant/Hydraulics hooked up and functional. All the fans spin freely and run when the machine is switched on. The chuck is closed. I home X and Z.

This Mazak is new to me and I'm new to Mazak's with the exception of some light operating during my apprentice days. Do I have to have tools defined in order to jog the spindle, or run it?


I've searched the forums and I'm out of things to try. The motor spins freely, and I've gone so far as hooking it directly to a power source (after disconnecting from the control) and it run fine (and quietly).

Any direction would be greatly appreciated, I can post up any additional information that might help. I'm at my wits end.


Thanks,
-Bill

alarm 204 is activated when PLC gets MACHINE READY SIGNAL is ok, SPINDLE circut breaker is not tripped and X017 is ZERO, which is SPINDLE hard wired error signal. If spindle does look ok, and there is no error ,message on those 4 LEDs ( front panel FR-Se) then machine isnt getting LOGIC ONE on X017 for some reason.
 

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I'm working on bringing up a 1986 Quick Turn 10n/ T-2 control. Everything works fine (Servos, Turret, Robot Tool Measure Arm, Hydraulics, Tail Stock) except the spindle. When I try to run the spindle it throws the 20 NMI Emergency Stop and the 204 Spindle Controller Malfunction.

The weird thing is that when I first powered it up (I have the transformer tapped for 240 3ph), I could jog the spindle but do little else. I had to reset the parity using the #2 dip switch at the NC rack. Afterwards, I was able to run everything else but not the spindle. The Drive is getting power, I don't get any red error lights unless I try to jog the spindle (trying to "start" the spindle only brings up an "spindle misoperation" error, which is easy to clear at the control). I'm getting power to the FR-SE Drive boards, I'm getting the grean "Ready", "Speed Detection" and "Zero Speed" LED's on the drive.


With the exception of the Parity Error LED at the NC Rack that I cleared, I don't get any error lights and everything else seems fine with the control. I cleared the internal memory and reloaded the Parameters and I'm getting the same results. I have air pressure, I have the chip conveyor/Coolant/Hydraulics hooked up and functional. All the fans spin freely and run when the machine is switched on. The chuck is closed. I home X and Z.

This Mazak is new to me and I'm new to Mazak's with the exception of some light operating during my apprentice days. Do I have to have tools defined in order to jog the spindle, or run it?


I've searched the forums and I'm out of things to try. The motor spins freely, and I've gone so far as hooking it directly to a power source (after disconnecting from the control) and it run fine (and quietly).

Any direction would be greatly appreciated, I can post up any additional information that might help. I'm at my wits end.


Thanks,
-Bill

Have you tried the chuck proximity switches on the chucking cylinder?
 
I really appreciate the feedback from you both.

alarm 204 is activated when PLC gets MACHINE READY SIGNAL is ok, SPINDLE circut breaker is not tripped and X017 is ZERO, which is SPINDLE hard wired error signal. If spindle does look ok, and there is no error ,message on those 4 LEDs ( front panel FR-Se) then machine isnt getting LOGIC ONE on X017 for some reason.

Do you know how many volts the "LOGIC ONE" Signal should be?


Also, Just so I'm reading the electrical drawings correctly, if there is no connector referenced, does that mean I don't have it? The X17 connection on my drawing doesn't have any references with it, so I wonder if my machine control is a different variation.manual picture.JPG
 
The FR-SE spindle drives are known to fail after a couple decades of use.

If your spindle drive is bad, it is most likely one or more of three things:

1. A bad SE-PW power supply

2. blown components on the SE-IO1 circuit board

3. blown main power block(s) in the base of the drive. Commonly know as IGBT's, these generation blocks are actually Darlington transistors.

Good luck with it,

ToolCat
 
I really appreciate the feedback from you both.



Do you know how many volts the "LOGIC ONE" Signal should be?


Also, Just so I'm reading the electrical drawings correctly, if there is no connector referenced, does that mean I don't have it? The X17 connection on my drawing doesn't have any references with it, so I wonder if my machine control is a different variation.View attachment 242026

I guess it would be +24 DC. Looks like you have different drawing. Does it have ladder diagram at the end of it? Try to find F bit that activates alarm F204. There will be signals you need. I just realized i gave you a picture from T20 control with FR-SF spindle. But FR-SE looks like has same outputs. I will double check it.
 

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FR-SE is connected same way, even same ladder diagram bit. FR-SE board, CONECTOR 3 , pin 18 (transistor output) when all is ok, there must be +24 DC
 

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Thanks a lot for the help. I'll pin down whether or not I have the voltage at pin 18 some how, I'm just trying to find out if my problem is on the drive side or the NC side (like maybe a bad parameter). Super grateful there are so many of these machines still running out there, it's great to be able to get some guidance.

-Bill
 
all those old MAzaks, when you see alarm like number 204..252 and so on. They are all coming from PLC ladder diagram. You dont have to guess, just check what signals in ladder are generating it. Like what is missing or vice verse.

alarms like 33 EMERGENCY STOP....or 15 SYSTEM MALFUNCTION.. mostly coming from NC, which is NC side.

FR-SE spindle is 1 000 000 years old and it is connected with NC through hard wired dedicated signals. Means, it will alarm like SPINDLE MALFUNCTION but real error, will be indicated on FR-SE spindle front panel.

FR-SF , which is next generation, same story, but..late version are using extra BUS COMMUNICATION board , so FR-SF will pass correct error message to NC control to display it (or maybe not). But still, front panel gives error message.


P.S. it can be a bad parameter. Like if you browse your machine 4 pages of parameters and you see somewhere rubbish or ** something like that, then you have to zero memory again, make it full of zeroes and only then re-enter numbers.

but I ll tell you, MAzaks made so many different versions of everything with different configurations, pure madness.
 
FR-SE is connected same way, even same ladder diagram bit. FR-SE board, CONECTOR 3 , pin 18 (transistor output) when all is ok, there must be +24 DC

I pulled the cover off of CND 2 going into the NC, Pin 11 is receiving 24v from Con. 3(Pin 18) at the drive. The drawing also references pin 20 on the CND 2 connector, but that location is not wired. Just to be sure, I ran a pin into that location (20)and supplied 24v to it, but that didn't make a difference.

If I do something to put the spindle drive into an error state you lose the 24v ready signal. If I kill the NC I lose #2 and #5 Green LED's on the front panel of the Drive (Ready and Speed Detection).

Unless I'm missing something, it seems like the issue is on the NC side. I'm thinking the next step is to duplicate the signals the drive needs to run apart from the NC so that I can verify that it's definitely an NC issue. It's just so weird, because I can't find any other issues on the NC side.

Completely open to suggestions if anybody has some insight on this.

KIMG0441[1].jpg

Spindle Controller.jpg
 
does you electrical drawing have ladder diagram? can you find alarm 204 in it and post it? Input 20 can be X096 input dedicated to sub spindle (it will only affect if ladder has X096 attached ).

So you have +24 DC ready ( no alarm ) going from spindle immediately after machine power cycled, but... when you want to run spindle. it will give you alarm 204, +24 disappears, and that is it?

Once you power cycle machine and home Z and X.. then close your chuck...without touching spindle RUN button..any errors? At what stage error 204 appears on the NC screen?

by any means, if there are no other funny errors, if you have this +24 going into NC, you should not get any alarm 204 , unless your ladder diagram looks at more inputs at the same time

p.s. I ll tell , that T2 control is much more much more reliable then these horrible FR-SE spindles. They fail all the time.
 
does you electrical drawing have ladder diagram? can you find alarm 204 in it and post it?

I didn't realize it until tonight, but the ladder diagram is there (I've only got a digital copy of the drawings). I've been studying the ladder, the connector diagrams and everything in between... -it's a lot to take in a at once, hopefully it starts to form a cohesive picture so I can proceed! I've attached the spindle forward ladder too, because that's ultimately what eludes me.

204 Spindle Controller.JPGSpindle Rotation Forward.JPG
 
so it is the same. once X037 is ZERo when machine is ready and CB (spindle circuit breaker, in my case, not in your ladder, you have some X031 input) conditions are good, it will generate 204. Nothing to do with NC control. FR-SE goes int error mode once you command it. You must have error messages on FR-SE front CPU board, those 4 LEDs, otherwise board is doggy. Can you check SF-PW power supply voltages? forget about SPINDLE FORWARD command, you problem is that spindle removes +24DC when you try to run it. It goes into an ERROR state.

to get alarm 204 you must not have spindle ready X037.. machine ready X100 must be ON ,and X031 must be on. X031 is slightly different from my picture. Dont know what it does at this moment


are you sure you dont have ANY messages on this 4 LEDS in attachment???? have a better look, they might be milky, but .. once you have 204 alarm , you must have ERROR message on a front panel.
 

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are you sure you dont have ANY messages on this 4 LEDS in attachment????

Is it possible that the top red LED on the vertical strip to the left of the lower drive board (pictured) is burnt out, or just not functional? When I press the reset button, all of the green lights (vertical strip, top board, pictured) and the three center (of five) red lights on the left side of the lower board illuminate.

KIMG0443[1].jpgKIMG0444[1].jpg KIMG0445[1].jpg
 
to get alarm 204 you must not have spindle ready X037.. machine ready X100 must be ON ,and X031 must be on. X031 is slightly different from my picture. Dont know what it does at this moment

X031 description is NFB Trip...Is NFB and abbreviation for a drive or machine component?

X031.JPG
 
Update:

I found the purchased parts manual in my set that covered the FR-SE Drive. Went through the troubleshooting, found that the power supply is not right. I'm getting 9.8v AC from every pin in the first bank to the left when I read them to ground. The other next one over is giving me 3v AC on the first 3 pins to ground, 2v AC on the other 3 pins to ground.

I'll replace this power supply and post up the outcome. Appreciate your help trying to solve this.KIMG0447[1].jpg
 
HO did you test power supply? Was the board attached to it? Those PWM power supply modules, sometimes need a bit of a load to start up. Otherwise they will not startup themself , or will be oscillating. Think of it, if there is no load, then power supply is loaded into output capacitors and instead calculated resistive load, say 200W , it has capacity type of load, and PWM controller is going into big oscillating mode. Sort of that. That is why all of them have big resistor attached to output pins and this resistor is very hot.

So when you test it. You have to put some load at least on first connector, +5, +24, -+18
 
Is it possible that the top red LED on the vertical strip to the left of the lower drive board (pictured) is burnt out, or just not functional? When I press the reset button, all of the green lights (vertical strip, top board, pictured) and the three center (of five) red lights on the left side of the lower board illuminate.

View attachment 242134View attachment 242132 View attachment 242133

yes. this last picture shows you red LED on the left side. God knows why there so many of them, but 4 of them are used for fault diagnostic. They show what error you are getting.
 
So when you test it. You have to put some load at least on first connector, +5, +24, -+18

I did not have the board hooked up when I read the voltages from the supply. I couldn't understand how the board could read status of the NC and switch LED's (and not be too damaged to function) if it were fed the AC voltages I read from the power supply. I was so excited to find a clear problem, I jumped on it. I'll put a load test on it before I go further.
 








 
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