SOS !!!!! alarms cycling between alarm 21 and 16 !!!
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  1. #1
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    Default SOS !!!!! alarms cycling between alarm 21 and 16 !!!

    1993 sqt10ms with a t32-3 control . Mitsubishi fr-sf spindle drive.1700 hours onnit (student machine from a trade school) Itís just getting set up on Itís first job. It made about 1000 parts before we started getting the alarm 21 for insufficient voltage (along with 204 spindle controller and ratio) when the machine would ramp up the. To make a cut or sometimes when the compressor kicked on in the shop.

    We adjusted parameter sp 19 to 1500 and of course it ramped up and down Slower it seemed to fix it until more and if needed sp19 at 2500 and then we played with it kicked out here and there and always went away with a controller restart. We settled on 5000 for the sp19 parameter. It has made about 3000 small parts like that. Before it stared giving us the 21 insufficient voltage steady. Every time we turned just the controller on and off.the same two codes 21 and 204. The drive flashed code 10.

    We looked in the Mitsubishi troubleshooting guide and checked the main input voltage check for the +5v signal on the sw board in spindle controller and got 5.8v. Otherwise the board would be bad. (While we were there we tried the toothpick trick on the spring loaded pin connectors connecting the sw board to the power supply. No change ..Now it gets interesting, When we turn off the main the breaker almost every time the code would change to amplifier not equipped and the insufficient voltage would go away. Keep turning the min breaker and controller on and off and still getting amplifier not equipped..... now if we let it sit for sometime say ten minutes. And power down everything from the main breaker in the building all code wills eventually disappear. But when we attempt to run a program even with the max rpms reduced to 1500 and the sp19 parameter at 10000 we get the insufficient voltage alarm and it starts all over.

    We have checked the things mentioned above and.

    -Disconnected all fans one at time and tested them.

    - the main spindle motor was tested by an electrician with a powered meter.

    - cleaned all filters some where quite dirty in the door fans.

    -The spindle coolant tank was aprox 2/3 a gallon low

    - the incoming power is generated by a dyna-phase 3 CNC phase converter with a voltage regulator. I know folks like to look at the phase converter Problems, when ever they are present but this one all checks out with good readings and capacitors and it within the +- 10 percent 229v 239 and 238v going into the transformer and after the taps they are 200v 200v and 216. The wild leg is not going to the NC unit. The same setup runs my mill all day everyday.

    We are 400 parts shy 3000 part order due in three days with our first big customer on our first cnc lathe job. the parts are taking 1m 45 seconds each to make . . I canít really afford to buy a drive or board or anything Unless itís guaranteed to fix the problem . We have all of our money into getting this job going and tooled etc.... ... I have been pulling my hair out on this for a few days. I hope someone can help. Itís 4 am Iím up working on it and I have to get up with the kids in two hours... day three . I donít mind not sleeping I just need to fix this asap. Iíll likely be standing by all day from 8am to 4am refreshing to try anything new. Please if anyone can help me Iíd forever owe you one and a case of beer.

  2. #2
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    Default error 21 insufficient voltage

    Quote Originally Posted by Stay Tuned View Post
    1993 sqt10ms with a t32-3 control . Mitsubishi fr-sf spindle drive.1700 hours onnit (student machine from a trade school) Itís just getting set up on Itís first job. It made about 1000 parts before we started getting the alarm 21 for insufficient voltage (along with 204 spindle controller and ratio) when the machine would ramp up the. To make a cut or sometimes when the compressor kicked on in the shop.

    We adjusted parameter sp 19 to 1500 and of course it ramped up and down Slower it seemed to fix it until more and if needed sp19 at 2500 and then we played with it kicked out here and there and always went away with a controller restart. We settled on 5000 for the sp19 parameter. It has made about 3000 small parts like that. Before it stared giving us the 21 insufficient voltage steady. Every time we turned just the controller on and off.the same two codes 21 and 204. The drive flashed code 10.

    We looked in the Mitsubishi troubleshooting guide and checked the main input voltage check for the +5v signal on the sw board in spindle controller and got 5.8v. Otherwise the board would be bad. (While we were there we tried the toothpick trick on the spring loaded pin connectors connecting the sw board to the power supply. No change ..Now it gets interesting, When we turn off the main the breaker almost every time the code would change to amplifier not equipped and the insufficient voltage would go away. Keep turning the min breaker and controller on and off and still getting amplifier not equipped..... now if we let it sit for sometime say ten minutes. And power down everything from the main breaker in the building all code wills eventually disappear. But when we attempt to run a program even with the max rpms reduced to 1500 and the sp19 parameter at 10000 we get the insufficient voltage alarm and it starts all over.

    We have checked the things mentioned above and.

    -Disconnected all fans one at time and tested them.

    - the main spindle motor was tested by an electrician with a powered meter.

    - cleaned all filters some where quite dirty in the door fans.

    -The spindle coolant tank was aprox 2/3 a gallon low

    - the incoming power is generated by a dyna-phase 3 CNC phase converter with a voltage regulator. I know folks like to look at the phase converter Problems, when ever they are present but this one all checks out with good readings and capacitors and it within the +- 10 percent 229v 239 and 238v going into the transformer and after the taps they are 200v 200v and 216. The wild leg is not going to the NC unit. The same setup runs my mill all day everyday.

    We are 400 parts shy 3000 part order due in three days with our first big customer on our first cnc lathe job. the parts are taking 1m 45 seconds each to make . . I canít really afford to buy a drive or board or anything Unless itís guaranteed to fix the problem . We have all of our money into getting this job going and tooled etc.... ... I have been pulling my hair out on this for a few days. I hope someone can help. Itís 4 am Iím up working on it and I have to get up with the kids in two hours... day three . I donít mind not sleeping I just need to fix this asap. Iíll likely be standing by all day from 8am to 4am refreshing to try anything new. Please if anyone can help me Iíd forever owe you one and a case of beer.

    Did you ever figure out what this problem is? It sounds very similar to our issue on a Mazak mill with M32 control. We discovered anything over about 650rpm kicks the code. We can start at this speed then ramp up and it runs but as long as it dead starts above that it drops with the error.

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by tjones View Post
    Did you ever figure out what this problem is? It sounds very similar to our issue on a Mazak mill with M32 control. We discovered anything over about 650rpm kicks the code. We can start at this speed then ramp up and it runs but as long as it dead starts above that it drops with the error.

    FR SF spindle, alarm 21, no signal from encoder. Motor has a little box attached, inside you can find little amplifier with A B and sometimes Z phases. If signals are bad, it will stop with alarm 21. Check the voltage, it must be +/- 1.5 AC. You can put FR-SF into open loop and adjust them, say run 300 rpm. The other thing is to check them at full speed, in CLOSE LOOP. See if voltage shrinks or deviates a lot. That might be big run out on rear bearing, where PLG head/sensor gear is installed

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  5. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by tjones View Post
    Did you ever figure out what this problem is? It sounds very similar to our issue on a Mazak mill with M32 control. We discovered anything over about 650rpm kicks the code. We can start at this speed then ramp up and it runs but as long as it dead starts above that it drops with the error.

    the other reason can be, what happened to me. FR SE controller and one or two IGBT drivers were faulty ( that is second board behind CPU board). Main transistors were not fully open. Spindle couldn't achieve programmed RPM. It will accelerate slow...very slow... and then EXCESSIVE ALARM.

  6. #5
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    Plus to mentioned above, the problem could also be in power portion of FR-SF. Big electrolitic capacitors can be bad (its just a question of time for those. El.caps are the first component that fails in electronics). Even Mitsubishi recommends to change these every 5-6 years. When they goes bad they dont hold a charge and when ramping up voltage on these comes down- undervoltage error occurs. They arent so much expensive- I changed them when one exploded in my FR-SF.


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