Thermal Trip ( Emergency Stop ) Al.#200

Here we go again, tried to turn on My QT-15 (T-2) this past Monday and ... no way. It came up with " Thermal Trip ( Emergency Stop ) Alarm #200 " , Didn't think much of it and went to check the obvious starters thermal overloads. None was tripped, but I checked them all anyway with the meter and they all trip and reset OK. Got back on it yesterday trying to find something obvious in the electrical cabinet, got the electrical manual out and located the alarm 200 on the ladder Diag. as input 7902, but no reference other than a line # ... ?
Do any of You "Old" geezers have this happened, or have any idea of what i`m overlooking, at this point I`m brain dead, any tips, suggestions ?

Thank You in advance
Andrew M.

Working from memory, I believe that alarm also occurs with overtravel? the override switch has to be pushed in while jogging it.
Also I had one similar where the 24vdc relay supply was down to ~12v, and this caused the alarm input to be open, as there is a relay contact logic in that string.
M.

Something like this happened to me once... Seems like I remember some hidden reset buttons deep inside the control panel, accessible only by removing some of the components in front of them. (They were on hinges, if I remember correctly.) I actually had a rep. from Mazak talk me through it over the phone. They are rude, but they will help you if you are very patient with them. (The last time was a lightning strike, the service guy talked me through resetting my mill over the phone. This involved changing some parameters.)

Only thing I see that wil generate Alm 200 is CB2,6, or 7 is tripped. I'm looking at a generic Qt schematic though.

I hate to say it but this has happened to me on a 95 qt 15 with t-plus control.The problem turned out to be a bad spindle power supply.Write down the readings on the lcd's of the power supply and call mazak or mits. They will tell you if it is ok or not.

I seem to recall thermal trips occurring when the chip conveyor gets plugged up? Been a while since I've seen that happen, and my memory ain't what it used to be...

Like said, really look through your electrical cabinet for all breakers and such. You may have to swing a hinge panel out to access everything.

Thermal trip can be many things, but will usually show up in electrical cabinet as a tripped breaker or thermal overload. Make sure you go to the Diagnostics page, to see if there is more than this alarm. The Position page only shows one alarm, Diagnostics will show them all, if you have other alarms.

Once on one of my T2 QT15's, I had the thermal trip INSIDE of the main transformer go bad, and gave me the 200 alarm. I ended up "hotwiring" the thermal trip circuit of the main transformer, as the transformer itself was fine. How did I know the transformer was fine? Well, it wasn't hot, and has worked fine now for over 2 years, so obviously it was just a failure of the thermal-trip inside the transformer itself. The electrical manual will show this circuit at the transformer terminals.

Good luck, and let us know what you find.

Greg

Gentlemen, Just got back home and found all this responses.
I think We might be up to something, You give me some tips that I had not thought about.

minder,
I`m going to try to locate the overtravel switch and see if is operating, and verify the 24V supply ( Just in case )

David,
The components You mentioned are the various starters for the AC motors ( Coolant pump, Hydr.Pump, Chip conveyor ) and , Yes You are right, the thermal overloads are all wired in the same circuit , and Yes they are behind a hinged connection panel. They were the first I checked and they were not tripped and electrically sound.

Leelund,
that is the same thing I see on my Diagram, and They all check good.

jewilc,
The spindle drive is not powering Up because the machine is in Emergency Stop, so i cannot read the status, hope is not that otherwise I`ll have to pawn the first born.

Valiant,
Yes the chip conveyor could cause that, is on the same circuit ( behind the Hinged door )

Greg,
You are right on it !
On the Position page I have a " 20 NMI Emergency" error only, when I go to the diagnostic page the second alarm is showing on the second line, "200 Thermal Trip ( Emergency Stop )".
I feel that the #200 is causing also the 20 NMI to show, that is why I did not mentioned. Your idea about the transformer overtemp sensor Might be IT !! I honestly did not think about it, until You mentioned... but definitely makes sense, I have seen that happening on large DC motors long time ago.
I've just finish dinner and I'm going right away to the shop to try it out.
I will post again as soon as I get back or if is to late, tomorrow Morning.

Thank You guys for now

Andrew M.

Greg,

You did it.... again
Went back to the shop, found the switch in the power section diagram as You said, but I could not find the termination in the cabinet, so, the hard way, I removed the half of gazillion screws to access the inside of the transformer, checked the OverTemp. switch and it checked OPEN. ( 1200 ohms, could have been reading the other side of the circuit)
Made a pretty jumper and she started right up. No hick-ups, whining or moaning.
Spent another 30 min. putting everything back together, power it Up again and again and...is fine.
Thinking back, the malfunction could have been cooking for a while, it happen at times that the 20NMI alarm would display at power-up and after powering down and up once or twice the alarm disappeared, and as not being persistent, I did not think much of it, and never went to the Diagnostic screen. Actually I thought the problem was coming from the oil lube pressure switch.. go figure.

Thank You Greg, and To all that responded thank You all. Hope this will help somebody else down the road.

Andrew M.

Mute point now but it terminates at terminal 1 and 2 on the servo rectifier unit that power the servos.

Hey Andrew,

It made my evening knowing I could help out a fellow Mazaker!

I've been troubleshooting an FR-SE spindle drive on a '85 QT10N lately. I have traced the problem to a short circuit in the drives main control board, SE-IO1. But, for the life of me, I don't know how to find the component causing the short.

So, I guess I'm gonna have to bite the bullet and send the board to Mitsubishi for repair. Argggg...$$$$

Greg

Greg,

Let me know what parts You are looking for. My next door neighbor at the shop, is an electronic genius and He was able to find the most weird stuff for me in the past. Lets give it a shot, nothing to loose at this point right ?

Andrew

Greg

Re-Read Your post and .. first thing I would think about is dried Up capacitor, Caps have a limited life, especially in such a bad enviroment as machine cabinet. change all the electrolytic caps, replace with Panasonic High temp, High ripple (DigiKey ),
if that do not do it , I have seen switching power supplies not up to requirement for the same reason, caps caps and caps. If is the same drive as mine, should be the black box on the top part of the drive. To test properly , make a test load using automotive light bulbs in series, to the voltage You need.
Don't know if You have already tried all this, maybe I'm off-track, please let me know, I'll try to think of something in the mean time.

Andrew M.

Andrew M. said:

Greg,

Let me know what parts You are looking for. My next door neighbor at the shop, is an electronic genius and He was able to find the most weird stuff for me in the past. Lets give it a shot, nothing to loose at this point right ?

Andrew

Click to expand...

Andrew M. said:

Greg,

You did it.... again
Went back to the shop, found the switch in the power section diagram as You said, but I could not find the termination in the cabinet, so, the hard way, I removed the half of gazillion screws to access the inside of the transformer, checked the OverTemp. switch and it checked OPEN. ( 1200 ohms, could have been reading the other side of the circuit)
Made a pretty jumper and she started right up. No hick-ups, whining or moaning.
Spent another 30 min. putting everything back together, power it Up again and again and...is fine.
Thinking back, the malfunction could have been cooking for a while, it happen at times that the 20NMI alarm would display at power-up and after powering down and up once or twice the alarm disappeared, and as not being persistent, I did not think much of it, and never went to the Diagnostic screen. Actually I thought the problem was coming from the oil lube pressure switch.. go figure.

Thank You Greg, and To all that responded thank You all. Hope this will help somebody else down the road.

Andrew M.

Click to expand...

Can you post a pic on your wiring and send to [email protected]?

Thank and hope to hear back

This is a 10 year old thread
What machine do you have?
Do you need electric diagram?