Value of Mazak schematics?
Close
Login to Your Account
Results 1 to 12 of 12
  1. #1
    Join Date
    Jan 2019
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    North Carolina
    Posts
    7
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    0
    Likes (Received)
    0

    Default Value of Mazak schematics?

    I'm hoping to get an idea of what reverse engineered schematics might be worth out there. I've done several for my own use in troubleshooting Mazak drives/controls, mainly the SF-PW/SE-PW power supplies for FR-SF/FR-SE drives, and some other stuff. I'm currently working on the TR-23D control board for the TRA series of drives.
    I'm using the GEDA schematic editor( gEDA Project's Homepage ) and would likely send paper prints of my work. If the digital files ever get out in the wild it would be game over I suspect. I'm no great expert at this yet, but I do use these myself as a bench tech for Scott Pruett of MSB Machine Tool Repair here in Swannanoa NC.

    Give me some advice/feedback fellers, is this something any of you might be interested in?

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Location
    South Australia
    Posts
    437
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    119
    Likes (Received)
    148

    Default

    I know there are a couple of us that would be interested In all 3 of those if the price is reasonable and they work

  3. Likes cnctoolcat, sophtayl liked this post
  4. #3
    Join Date
    Aug 2018
    Country
    AUSTRALIA
    Posts
    288
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    0
    Likes (Received)
    39

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by dbreeze View Post
    I'm hoping to get an idea of what reverse engineered schematics might be worth out there. I've done several for my own use in troubleshooting Mazak drives/controls, mainly the SF-PW/SE-PW power supplies for FR-SF/FR-SE drives, and some other stuff. I'm currently working on the TR-23D control board for the TRA series of drives.
    I'm using the GEDA schematic editor( gEDA Project's Homepage ) and would likely send paper prints of my work. If the digital files ever get out in the wild it would be game over I suspect. I'm no great expert at this yet, but I do use these myself as a bench tech for Scott Pruett of MSB Machine Tool Repair here in Swannanoa NC.

    Give me some advice/feedback fellers, is this something any of you might be interested in?
    what you gonna do about those custom made PCB modules covered with black compound? Nobody knows what is inside them, unless you have a leak from Mitsubishi development group.

    Best way to approach this madness will be a retrofit, new (cheap)servo motor + new (cheap) servo amplifier + interface adapter ( any PIC controller that can take Mitsubishi data protocol for these 10000000 years old TRA boxes, and convert it into different one) . Here you have new Servo, Servo Amplifier and what you need is a software to talk to NC control. Now, old Mitsubishi is very very slow machine, you dont have to chase speed, just to make sure you send data in and out correctly). Now idea of reverse engineering is transformed into idea of a scrambler , that you connect to communication line and learn how to interface new hardware. And that is more fun then spending hours of tracing PCB tracks ( specially on multi layers PCB board ).

    Or better solution is to file a law case against Mitsubishi Corporation, with any powerful Government, to release blue prints for old units that they do not support, will not support, repair or exchange, and put thousandths of customers into dependency of pure luck to buy a replacement on Ebay . IF that is not the case , then I am not a lawyer anymore.

    That is far more realistic approach, as it can be ruled out by anti-monopoly law in any given time.

  5. Likes sudsy55 liked this post
  6. #4
    Join Date
    Jan 2019
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    North Carolina
    Posts
    7
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    0
    Likes (Received)
    0

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by sudsy55 View Post
    I know there are a couple of us that would be interested In all 3 of those if the price is reasonable and they work
    What is a reasonable price is my question. What I have done so far works for my troubleshooting work, I can make no more claim to accuracy/completeness than that.

  7. #5
    Join Date
    Jan 2019
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    North Carolina
    Posts
    7
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    0
    Likes (Received)
    0

    Default

    Certainly there will be some sealed hybrid modules that will likely remain "black boxes", but I do have access to some hybrid modules that are not sealed such as the DK434 gate drivers used on SE-I01 and some other Mitsubishi PCB's. Unmarked/unknown components are always an issue, but some indication of their function can be gained from their position in the overall circuitry. My work at least shows all connections to these components so Vcc/Gnd/input/output can be determined.

    I am not a lawyer, nor do I have any hope of finding the resources needed to take on large corporations, but I agree with the sentiment that they are holding us hostage by denying access to the info needed to properly maintain these old machines.

  8. #6
    Join Date
    Nov 2017
    Country
    LATVIA
    Posts
    42
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    8
    Likes (Received)
    10

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by dbreeze View Post
    Certainly there will be some sealed hybrid modules that will likely remain "black boxes", but I do have access to some hybrid modules that are not sealed such as the DK434 gate drivers used on SE-I01 and some other Mitsubishi PCB's.
    There is a full circuit for DK434 in FR-SE manual. More interesting would be DK456 or BKO-C1877 inner circuit.

  9. #7
    Join Date
    Aug 2018
    Country
    AUSTRALIA
    Posts
    288
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    0
    Likes (Received)
    39

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by dbreeze View Post
    Certainly there will be some sealed hybrid modules that will likely remain "black boxes", but I do have access to some hybrid modules that are not sealed such as the DK434 gate drivers used on SE-I01 and some other Mitsubishi PCB's. Unmarked/unknown components are always an issue, but some indication of their function can be gained from their position in the overall circuitry. My work at least shows all connections to these components so Vcc/Gnd/input/output can be determined.

    I am not a lawyer, nor do I have any hope of finding the resources needed to take on large corporations, but I agree with the sentiment that they are holding us hostage by denying access to the info needed to properly maintain these old machines.
    the only way to fight Mitsubishi is not reverse engineering but a civil court. Like BMW in Germany, it leaked its software and everybody is happy, no one is going against it

  10. #8
    Join Date
    Aug 2018
    Country
    AUSTRALIA
    Posts
    288
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    0
    Likes (Received)
    39

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by noname777 View Post
    the only way to fight Mitsubishi is not reverse engineering but a civil court. Like BMW in Germany, it leaked its software and everybody is happy, no one is going against it Mitsubishi people must to be reminded that healthy competition is a way to progress, unlike unhealthy one is a way towards dictatorship .
    my message was too short so I write it here

  11. #9
    Join Date
    Jan 2019
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    North Carolina
    Posts
    7
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    0
    Likes (Received)
    0

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by GuntisK View Post
    There is a full circuit for DK434 in FR-SE manual. More interesting would be DK456 or BKO-C1877 inner circuit.
    True, not the best example but it was the first to pop in my head since I just finished a unit that had some reman'd DK434's without the coating. There are methods to get get the coatings off most of these hybrids but you risk removing any part # labels also. It is what it is...

    The best schematics I have fairly complete now would be SF-PW's in a couple of variations, SE-PW, QX084, and some PD21 power supplies. I have some others "under construction". I'm just trying to get a feel for whether or not reverse-engineering this stuff would be worth pursuing to keep me and my dog fed...

  12. #10
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Location
    Abingdon, VA
    Posts
    3,420
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    4616
    Likes (Received)
    3199

    Default

    You can source the DK434's and DK456's on Ebay --- usually come from Asia...and also the power modules can be purchased new there as well.

    The diagrams and schematics would certainly be helpful, but at this point in the age of these older Mazak's, what we need is a plug-and-play retrofit solution for the spindle and servo drives.

    MEAU does offer a package to substitute "MDS-" spindle drives for the older FR-SE and FR-SF drives, but are way, way high on their pricing!

    And I'm not sure if they have ever offered MDS- retrofits for the original TRA- and MR- servo drives or not...??

    ToolCat

  13. #11
    Join Date
    Aug 2014
    Location
    Sydney, Autralia
    Posts
    2
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    0
    Likes (Received)
    0

    Default Circuit Diagram

    Hi, I am interested about your drawings. Please email me about it.My email: [email protected]
    Thank,

    GS

    Quote Originally Posted by dbreeze View Post
    I'm hoping to get an idea of what reverse engineered schematics might be worth out there. I've done several for my own use in troubleshooting Mazak drives/controls, mainly the SF-PW/SE-PW power supplies for FR-SF/FR-SE drives, and some other stuff. I'm currently working on the TR-23D control board for the TRA series of drives.
    I'm using the GEDA schematic editor( gEDA Project's Homepage ) and would likely send paper prints of my work. If the digital files ever get out in the wild it would be game over I suspect. I'm no great expert at this yet, but I do use these myself as a bench tech for Scott Pruett of MSB Machine Tool Repair here in Swannanoa NC.

    Give me some advice/feedback fellers, is this something any of you might be interested in?

  14. #12
    Join Date
    Aug 2014
    Location
    Sydney, Autralia
    Posts
    2
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    0
    Likes (Received)
    0

    Default

    Hi DBreeze,
    I am interested at your drawings. How can I get that? How can I pay you?


Tags for this Thread

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •