Would you buy a T-2 machine (T32 vs T2)
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  1. #1
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    Default Would you buy a T-2 machine (T32 vs T2)

    Hi all,

    I have a hobby shop I occasionally take work for, considering picking up a qt15 with T2 control. I'm wondering what the limitations of the T2 are, and what the biggest differences are between t2 / t32.

    Looking at late 80's - 90's machines (budget) so maybe a better question is - Would you still buy a machine built in 1989 if its not being relied on to pay rent?

    Thank you!

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    My shop has:
    QuickTurn10ATC T3
    SlantTurn30ATC T3
    Multiplex620 T32-6

    T3 is the same as T2 but with C-axis
    T32-6 is 6 axis (dual head with C axis)

    The quality of these machines are absolutly the best.
    If you are a technically skilled person that can change some capacitors if needed or troubleshooting any other problem go for it.
    If you planning to call Mazak if any problem I would say buy a newer machine.

    T2/T3 has som minor limitations vs T32 but nothing you cant workaround like:
    -Cant chamfer only one side when cutting of. (Can be solved by a manual process)
    -Can only hold 16 programs in memory (Mazview for 199$ solves that problem)
    -EIA/ISO is not standard but can be added with some help from me or some other guys at this forum
    -Cant drip feed program (Dont think that ever will be a problem if you running T2, it can be a problem when engraving text with T3)
    -Cant edit run a program and edit another at the same time.
    T32 is a little faster than T2/T3 when working but my feeling is that T32 has a central CPU controlling everything so when the machine is working all control buttons has a little delay that is very enoying that T2/T3 dont have.

    I would recommend looking for a c-axis machine (T3 or T32-3), you can do so much more fun with these machines

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    Quote Originally Posted by benganboll View Post
    -Can only hold 16 programs in memory (Mazview for 199$ solves that problem)
    It helps, but it's still a pain to transfer programs and then to manage it, (in my limited experience)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jmaks View Post
    It helps, but it's still a pain to transfer programs and then to manage it, (in my limited experience)
    No not when you get used to it.
    I always try to have as few program as possible in memory and transfer all my programs even if I dont think I will do the same job again.
    I store them to a folder that syncs with onedrive so if my PC goes up in smoke I still have them.
    I have one PC with mazview connected to all 3 mazaks and it very easy to handle the programs if you make a good folder structure.

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    How do you handle program edits, do you delete the pc file as soon as you download it to the cnc or when you reupload it to the pc, or you keep it and make a new folder based on the date?

    Sent from my SM-T827V using Tapatalk

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jmaks View Post
    How do you handle program edits, do you delete the pc file as soon as you download it to the cnc or when you reupload it to the pc, or you keep it and make a new folder based on the date?
    When I select a machine config in MazView it will go to a folder with only the programs from that machine, in that folder I have folders for each customer. In the customer folder I save the files and name them as the drawing number and put some comments like what jaws was used etc.
    A saved program file can contain many mazatrol programs and even chuck & tooldata and even the parameters if you want.

    If I load program(s) from PC and make some improvement or changes I will then replace the old file with the newer program(s).
    If I only makes minor changes like toolnumbers I will not replace it.

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    T2 are DC servos and older technology. T32 are AC

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    I don't know about the T32, but i bought a 1989 QT15 Universal having no prior cnc lathe experience, within a day i was making parts and within a week i was comfortable with the control, it holds tight tolerances and paid itself within a couple of months.

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    I would buy a T2 machine over a T32 machine from a repair standpoint. Mitsubishi will no longer repair the mrs drives found in the T32 vintage machines because some of the parts are NLA. They do have a replacement drive for these at $5500.00 per axis. This is viable for a large lathe or mill but not for commodity level machines such as a QT15.
    Tra drives as found in the T2 control can still be readily repaired in the aftermarket.

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    Thank you for the responses everyone, this is exactly the information I was looking for. Good to hear there is still support to repair these machines (and the control).

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    t2 are not necessarily DC servos
    some are ac
    a t2 servo drive sent in to mits for a rebuild will cost you over $2500
    a spindle drive could be much more.

    if it was me I'd buy the newest hass I could afford for hobby like atmosphere. the parts are much cheaper

    they are nowhere near as robust as a mazak
    but you dont need a metal muncher from your description

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    the hydraulic indexers on those old qt15's are a real pain
    $6k wouldn't even touch one if you could find one
    same with the 32
    unless I had an extra $10k to support the thing I would not buy an old mazak

    and I love mazaks and can work on them in my sleep

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    Well, mixed feedback on this thread but here's hoping I don't run into indexer issues. I took delivery of the QT15 this morning. I have yet to tear into it but it doesn't look abused.

    img_20190416_073251.jpg

    I will need to upgrade my power set up to get it up and running, so I have a question - How long will the back up batteries last without the machine being powered before they give up and I lose my parameters? The machine was under power till very recently.

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    Quote Originally Posted by JohnXKennedy View Post
    Well, mixed feedback on this thread but here's hoping I don't run into indexer issues. I took delivery of the QT15 this morning. I have yet to tear into it but it doesn't look abused.

    img_20190416_073251.jpg

    I will need to upgrade my power set up to get it up and running, so I have a question - How long will the back up batteries last without the machine being powered before they give up and I lose my parameters? The machine was under power till very recently.
    Depends on the batteries. You can get an old phone charger or similar that charges 3.6v and hook it up direct to all the batteries and plug it in to your household power supply to keep them healthy

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    I am 99% sure that it will charge the backup batteries if only main switsh is turned on but machine is not started.
    But the tranformer will use a lot of current.
    Didnt you get pictures or something of the parameters from the seller?

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    Default Would you buy a T-2 machine (T32 vs T2)

    Nice QT15!

    I have two just like it, with the T2 control. They are reliable workhorses, as long as you don't abuse them (like most shops tend to do).

    The backup batteries should hold a month at least.

    You will need to slow your spindle accel/decel rates. Why? Well most importantly, you will increase the life of your spindle drive ten-fold. And secondly, it will be much easier on your phase converter/incoming power.

    Adding a second or two to the spindle accel/decel will not effect your cycle times much at all.

    Also, I recommend a hydraulic flow control valve piped into the turret pressure line. This slows down your clamp/unclamp and rotate, extending the life of your turret hydraulic motor dramatically.

    And just like with the spindle accel/decel, slowing the turret's hydraulics down will create no noticeable difference in cycle times....because the machines are so damn fast to start with!

    Good luck with it, and post questions here as you need to.

    ToolCat Greg
    Last edited by cnctoolcat; 04-18-2019 at 07:34 AM.

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    "And just like with the spindle accel/decel, slowing the turret's hydraulics down will create no noticeable difference in cycle times....because the machines are so damn fast to start with!"

    Good tips Greg going to look into this on our QT8
    We slowed down the rapids as much as possible in the parameters.
    I assume the spindle accel / decel's are there as well ?

    If you have the type of hyd. flow valve to look for that would be cool, thanks !

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    Thanks for the tips Greg! In looking back at older threads it seems the control could have 2 or 3 batteries, I found 2 (727 and 784), should there be a third battery for my control? (1989 T2).

    I assume I can just hook a 3.6V charger directly to the battery terminals and power the charger as was mentioned above. Is there any potential harm in this strategy?

    I second Laurentian on interest in the hydraulic flow valve specifics... If anyone happens to have them... Thank you!

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    nonsense all about spindle drives. dont do it. if there is any difference when it comes to accel/decel rates, it is dynamic load on spindle bearings. that is it. period. Electronics doesnt care about how fast you run it. What you can do is you have to replace all , absolutely all capacitors inside spindle drive unit. The reason you do it is next. when you run spindle aggressively, spindle drive CPU boards send lots of very short pulses to open/close output transistors and those are pulses are rising edge, pulse itself and falling edge. When capacitors are bad and leaky and internal resistance is massive, rising and falling edges contribute bigger part in transistor ON state. Means they create more losses and overheating as transistor isnt fully open at this moment. Overheating creates internal damage to PN structure and eventually transistor fails. All these fantasies about changing parameters are nothing but fairy tales

    you can go online on Mouser Electronics and get all capacitors for 60 dollars , and select ones with low internal resistance ESR and onces that have nice RIPPLE CURRENT and life time at least 10000 hours. That is it. That simple to have spindle drive to work and work.

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    of course you say bullshit because you have never done it
    we have
    and there is a distinct and instantaneous change
    0 to balls out in .3 seconds and 3 seconds is an astronomical difference in life span of a spindle drive.
    you can tell it means something by watching the load meters. a .3 start pegs red for more than 2 seconds.
    red is bad
    so take your Hamilton Tech book shit you read and flush it.

    for the record

    2 weeks

    that's how long it took to run into some bullshit shit talker telling people who don't know any better shit talk about there mazaks since I started back up.
    like the time some fuck said you had to leave power on when changing batteries on a t2.
    proving of course he had never touched a t2 battery.
    shit talk

    I love it

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