B&A Precision - Page 250
Close
Login to Your Account
Page 250 of 262 FirstFirst ... 150200240248249250251252260 ... LastLast
Results 4,981 to 5,000 of 5227

Thread: B&A Precision

  1. #4981
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    Wisconsin
    Posts
    1,344
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    247
    Likes (Received)
    962

    Default

    So seeing that the pallet change brother is not selling very fast, what payments would be left if you trade it and a vf2 in on a non pallet change brother? Yes youd loose a vf2 but would essentially be upgrading it to what double or triple the machine? I would be checking into it if I was in your shoes. Maybe the numbers work out maybe it doesnt.

    Either way I kinda agree with what others said, you were (seemed to be from the cheap seats anyway) doing good with used machines and light production, then when customer pushed you out of comfort zone it started sliding downhill. Not that I wouldn't have chased the big job too, just something to make note of for the future.

    This work is always going to be feast or famine, sometimes the famine about breaks you but then the feast comes, just remember to pace yourself when it does. Wish you the best of luck on it Bill.

  2. Likes wheelieking71 liked this post
  3. #4982
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Location
    Gilbert, AZ
    Posts
    5,752
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    7180
    Likes (Received)
    7306

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by JP Machining View Post
    So seeing that the pallet change brother is not selling very fast, what payments would be left if you trade it and a vf2 in on a non pallet change brother? Yes youd loose a vf2 but would essentially be upgrading it to what double or triple the machine? I would be checking into it if I was in your shoes. Maybe the numbers work out maybe it doesnt.

    Either way I kinda agree with what others said, you were (seemed to be from the cheap seats anyway) doing good with used machines and light production, then when customer pushed you out of comfort zone it started sliding downhill. Not that I wouldn't have chased the big job too, just something to make note of for the future.

    This work is always going to be feast or famine, sometimes the famine about breaks you but then the feast comes, just remember to pace yourself when it does. Wish you the best of luck on it Bill.
    I have considered situations like that. Maybe trade the Brother and Big Fat HAAS for something else? But, I really hate debt.
    Those VF2ss's, especially now that they are paid for, are my money makers.
    Remember, at the end of the day, its not about how much money we can make. It is how much we can KEEP! Lots of factors go in to that.
    Those VF's are perfectly capable of the work I seem to get. And, also, perfectly fast enough to complete it in a timely manner.
    Therefore, they leave the most money in my pocket. That may be different for somebody else! But, for me, and my current work, they are the most logical choice.
    Another factor that comes in to play. I am not sold on the 30 taper. I see guys doing crazy shit with them. But, I have my own first hand experience now.
    I like that F600, but I'm just flapping my gums talking about buying one.
    In all honesty, I think if I was actually in a position to buy a new VMC? It would be a Doosy, Kitty, Matty, or Genos.

    As for pacing myself? There is a reason I drive a 15 year old truck. It is paid for!
    And, there is a reason there is no concrete under the new car-port (or connex). It isn't paid for. LOL

  4. Likes DrHook liked this post
  5. #4983
    Join Date
    Jun 2015
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    Texas
    Posts
    392
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    80
    Likes (Received)
    96

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by memphisjed View Post
    I do not know what a pew-pew part is
    Here you go:

    pew-pew-pew-merica_o_1203140.jpg

    sorry, couldn't help it. Saw on Fb while back, thought it was funny.

    Wheelie, I hope your luck turns for the better.

  6. Likes wheelieking71, triumph406, DrHook liked this post
  7. #4984
    Join Date
    Feb 2014
    Location
    Cartersville, Ga
    Posts
    208
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    49
    Likes (Received)
    106

    Default

    There's one thing (and maybe 'only' one thing) that you've been consistent on in this thread, and that is:

    Quote Originally Posted by wheelieking71 View Post
    But, I really hate debt.
    Well actually two things, but I don't think Pit Stop is pertinent to the discussion at hand.

    I've followed your thread quite closely, as I opened up shop within a few months of you having done so, and have more or less shared your philosophy on growth (or the lack thereof), and debt (or the lack thereof). Like so many others have said, I was quite surprised when you went way out into left field to buy the Brother. On a similar note, your satisfaction level flipped around that time, too. Your posts went from "one step closer to this, one step closer to that," to "I want out," around that time, as well.

    In reality though, you already know this, and have answered it for yourself.


    Those VF2ss's, especially now that they are paid for, are my money makers.
    Remember, at the end of the day, its not about how much money we can make. It is how much we can KEEP! Lots of factors go in to that.
    Those VF's are perfectly capable of the work I seem to get. And, also, perfectly fast enough to complete it in a timely manner.
    Therefore, they leave the most money in my pocket. That may be different for somebody else! But, for me, and my current work, they are the most logical choice.
    From my chair, it looks like your original plan was solid, and the deviation is what started to hurt. That's not to say the deviation from your original plan was a bad plan - it's worked well for many - it's just not the plan that works for you. Sure as heck not the route I would go - for every success story of sticking your neck out, there's at least one other that is no longer in business following the next recession. I'd rather make a little less now, but survive through the next recession, rather than taking the risk of trying to grow too fast. I struggle with that battle every day - right now, I have the work to justify new equipment, an employee or two, etc, but the uncertainty of what could happen in the next few years is too much for me to take on debt to take that plunge.

    I'd be looking for the fastest way to my happy place (debt free, low overhead, able to ride out slow periods comfortably). If there's work on the horizon that the Brother can justifiably run, maybe keeping it works, but if not, I'd sell it for a loss. The payment on a 30k ish loan to cover the amount you are short after selling it is quite a lot lower than the payment on a 150k machine. The idea of keeping it and using it just to try to cover it's payment still requires additional costs out of pocket - labor, tooling, power, etc.

    Just food for thought.

  8. Likes wheelieking71 liked this post
  9. #4985
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    Klamath Falls, Oregon
    Posts
    3,626
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    413
    Likes (Received)
    1000

    Default

    I think the plan was solid, the problem was the lack of "what to do with the Brother when the ride is over".

    If that was worked out prior to purchasing the Brother, I think a lot of the personal dramas would be non-existent.

    But that's the past, it seems pretty clear at this point, unless you find a high volume production job making widgets on the Brother, it's gonna be sent down the road.

    I also have to question the return on high volume widgets. You're talking about "how much you keep" and it seems to me like the Brother is a low margin tool, maybe you're just breaking even to be able to keep iron on your floor?!

    I would think that you want to keep money instead of just pay the debts you have.

  10. #4986
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Location
    Gilbert, AZ
    Posts
    5,752
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    7180
    Likes (Received)
    7306

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Fish On View Post
    There's one thing (and maybe 'only' one thing) that you've been consistent on in this thread, and that is:



    Well actually two things, but I don't think Pit Stop is pertinent to the discussion at hand.

    I've followed your thread quite closely, as I opened up shop within a few months of you having done so, and have more or less shared your philosophy on growth (or the lack thereof), and debt (or the lack thereof). Like so many others have said, I was quite surprised when you went way out into left field to buy the Brother. On a similar note, your satisfaction level flipped around that time, too. Your posts went from "one step closer to this, one step closer to that," to "I want out," around that time, as well.

    In reality though, you already know this, and have answered it for yourself.



    From my chair, it looks like your original plan was solid, and the deviation is what started to hurt. That's not to say the deviation from your original plan was a bad plan - it's worked well for many - it's just not the plan that works for you. Sure as heck not the route I would go - for every success story of sticking your neck out, there's at least one other that is no longer in business following the next recession. I'd rather make a little less now, but survive through the next recession, rather than taking the risk of trying to grow too fast. I struggle with that battle every day - right now, I have the work to justify new equipment, an employee or two, etc, but the uncertainty of what could happen in the next few years is too much for me to take on debt to take that plunge.

    I'd be looking for the fastest way to my happy place (debt free, low overhead, able to ride out slow periods comfortably). If there's work on the horizon that the Brother can justifiably run, maybe keeping it works, but if not, I'd sell it for a loss. The payment on a 30k ish loan to cover the amount you are short after selling it is quite a lot lower than the payment on a 150k machine. The idea of keeping it and using it just to try to cover it's payment still requires additional costs out of pocket - labor, tooling, power, etc.

    Just food for thought.
    Pit Stop is always pertinent! LOL

    Your another guy pretty much hitting the nail on the head.

  11. #4987
    Join Date
    Nov 2014
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    Florida
    Posts
    3,429
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    1474
    Likes (Received)
    1621

    Default

    This is probably in left field but I will shoot anyhow.

    Have you tired checking craigslist for want ads (machinist) then maybe try to 'call on them' as a customer? IE same ad been running for weeks, maybe pop in with a business card and say you have "some" ( no reason to divulge more than needed) open machine time, here are my capabilities, etc etc...?

  12. #4988
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Location
    Gilbert, AZ
    Posts
    5,752
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    7180
    Likes (Received)
    7306

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Perry Harrington View Post
    I think the plan was solid, the problem was the lack of "what to do with the Brother when the ride is over".

    If that was worked out prior to purchasing the Brother, I think a lot of the personal dramas would be non-existent.

    But that's the past, it seems pretty clear at this point, unless you find a high volume production job making widgets on the Brother, it's gonna be sent down the road.

    I also have to question the return on high volume widgets. You're talking about "how much you keep" and it seems to me like the Brother is a low margin tool, maybe you're just breaking even to be able to keep iron on your floor?!

    I would think that you want to keep money instead of just pay the debts you have.
    Well, I don't know anybody that would keep paying their bills if they majically disappeared, LOL. Of course I want to keep the money.
    The reality is, none of this is "big picture". Yea, it greatly affects right NOW.
    But, how much affect will this situation have on 5 years from now? I mean, look at Ox, how long did you go with no work for that brand new Hardinge?
    You made it somehow. That is no guarantee I will find a way out of this mess. But, big-picture, this should just be a blip.
    Which brings me back to my current dilema: how long do I hold on to the grapevine, before I punt? Nobody knows the perfect answer. Nobody.

  13. Likes DrHook liked this post
  14. #4989
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Location
    Gilbert, AZ
    Posts
    5,752
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    7180
    Likes (Received)
    7306

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Mike1974 View Post
    This is probably in left field but I will shoot anyhow.

    Have you tired checking craigslist for want ads (machinist) then maybe try to 'call on them' as a customer? IE same ad been running for weeks, maybe pop in with a business card and say you have "some" ( no reason to divulge more than needed) open machine time, here are my capabilities, etc etc...?
    If I have done that once, I've done it 100 times, LOL

    Did a job for these guys back new-year 2015. CNC Prototype Machinist - manufacturing - job employment
    That is how I found that work. Took waaaaay to long to get paid!

  15. Likes Mike1974 liked this post
  16. #4990
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Location
    West Unity, Ohio
    Posts
    25,080
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    5316
    Likes (Received)
    7836

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by wheelieking71 View Post
    Well, I don't know anybody that would keep paying their bills if they majically disappeared, LOL. Of course I want to keep the money.
    The reality is, none of this is "big picture". Yea, it greatly affects right NOW.
    But, how much affect will this situation have on 5 years from now? I mean, look at Ox, how long did you go with no work for that brand new Hardinge?
    You made it somehow. That is no guarantee I will find a way out of this mess. But, big-picture, this should just be a blip.
    Which brings me back to my current dilema: how long do I hold on to the grapevine, before I punt? Nobody knows the perfect answer. Nobody.
    I went one year.
    I was busy otherwise, but I had payments on much of the other stuff too...

    You are the one that lives with the ramifications of your decisions, and so it's certainly not my place to even have a recommendation.

    BUT - I will say this - that this whole "stepping beyond ones plan, or business model, or whatever" BS is not what the problem is.
    You had a job that was running hot. It had been running hot for some time. You were getting paid in a timely manner.
    Then - just as you ponied up for the threshold, the lights went out.

    Also - as with anything, there is always a bit more to the story that only you know and care to plaster over the net.
    Thus leaving any recommendations here somewhat skewed. (both pro or con)

    It had nothing to doo with any "business model" that I can see.
    I would like to think that your real "business model" is to keep good customers happy at a profit.
    I am sure that you were seeing more income per debt ratio with the new machine than you had when you started, so ???

    The only real question is what value this machine has to your current, or foreseable future?

    As was posted above recently - jobs like you are looking for doo not come down the pike every day.
    It could take 2-3 years for any particular job, or a new version to go up for quote.
    I would not expect to replace this job quickly.


    ------------------------

    Think Snow Eh!
    Ox
    Last edited by Ox; 03-19-2019 at 04:45 PM.

  17. #4991
    Join Date
    Nov 2014
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    Florida
    Posts
    3,429
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    1474
    Likes (Received)
    1621

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by wheelieking71 View Post
    If I have done that once, I've done it 100 times, LOL

    Did a job for these guys back new-year 2015. CNC Prototype Machinist - manufacturing - job employment
    That is how I found that work. Took waaaaay to long to get paid!

    That sucks.

    I work at a place now that makes their own product. It is definitely a different animal than job shopping!!

    We make one part, different variations, that keep one VF2 busy 8-10hrs/day 5days/week, and probably more if we ran a 2nd shift. I have no idea on sale price or anything, I just know that dang machine runs all the time. I always wonder "who the hell is ordering this stuff???" it certainly is not anything retail... Also, it is soooo laid back I am still (getting used to it) shocked that we don't push more, hey I'm glad we have some leisure time, but even to me (the one not writing the paychecks) I think "alot could be better/more productive".

  18. #4992
    Join Date
    Nov 2014
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    Florida
    Posts
    3,429
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    1474
    Likes (Received)
    1621

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Ox View Post
    I went one year.
    I was busy otherwise, but I had payments on much of the other stuff too...

    You are the one that lives with the ramifications of your decisions, and so it's certainly not my place to even have a recommendation.

    BUT - I will say this - that this whole "stepping beyond ones plan, or business model, or whatever BS" is not that the problem is.
    You had a job that was running hot. It had been running hot for some time. You were getting paid in a timely manner.
    Then - just as you ponied up for the threshold, the lights went out.

    Also - as with anything, there is always a bit more to the story that only you know and care to plaster over the net.
    Thus leaving any recommendations here somewhat skewed. (both pro or con)

    It had nothing to doo with any "business model" that I can see.
    I would like to think that your real "business model" is to keep good customers happy at a profit.
    I am sure that you were seeing more income per debt ratio with the new machine than you had when you started, so ???

    The only real question is what value this machine has to your current, or foreseable future?

    As was posted above recently - jobs like you are looking for doo not come down the pike every day.
    It could take 2-3 years for any particular job, or a new version to go up for quote.
    I would not expect to replace this job quickly.


    ------------------------

    Think Snow Eh!
    Ox

    I think I posted this before. Been in this/that situation before (not as an owner obviously) customer said "step up production or lose the job". We did and they took the job anyways. Moral of the story I guess, don't trust anyone.

  19. #4993
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Location
    Gilbert, AZ
    Posts
    5,752
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    7180
    Likes (Received)
    7306

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Ox View Post
    I went one year.
    I was busy otherwise, but I had payments on much of the other stuff too...

    You are the one that lives with the ramifications of your decisions, and so it's certainly not my place to even have a recommendation.

    BUT - I will say this - that this whole "stepping beyond ones plan, or business model, or whatever BS" is not that the problem is.
    You had a job that was running hot. It had been running hot for some time. You were getting paid in a timely manner.
    Then - just as you ponied up for the threshold, the lights went out.

    Also - as with anything, there is always a bit more to the story that only you know and care to plaster over the net.
    Thus leaving any recommendations here somewhat skewed. (both pro or con)

    It had nothing to doo with any "business model" that I can see.
    I would like to think that your real "business model" is to keep good customers happy at a profit.
    I am sure that you were seeing more income per debt ratio with the new machine than you had when you started, so ???

    The only real question is what value this machine has to your current, or foreseable future?

    As was posted above recently - jobs like you are looking for doo not come down the pike every day.
    It could take 2-3 years for any particular job, or a new version to go up for quote.
    I would not expect to replace this job quickly.


    ------------------------

    Think Snow Eh!
    Ox
    In red ^^^^ Ain't that the truth!

    Quoted from post#1:

    Quote Originally Posted by wheelieking71 View Post
    I plan to build a reputation based on excellent customer service, accompanied by quality work, and product.
    With speedy lead times. Its a leap of faith, and will be a ton of work. But I love what I do. And I am as dedicated as they come. wish me luck!
    Speedy lead times have taken a bit of a hit. But, ain't nothing else changed.
    Maybe I don't always love what I do anymore? Until I think about doing something else. Flips me around right quick.

  20. Likes DrHook liked this post
  21. #4994
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Location
    Gilbert, AZ
    Posts
    5,752
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    7180
    Likes (Received)
    7306

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Mike1974 View Post
    I think I posted this before. Been in this/that situation before (not as an owner obviously) customer said "step up production or lose the job". We did and they took the job anyways. Moral of the story I guess, don't trust anyone.
    I will trust any customer that gives me a good vibe. Until, they give me one reason not to trust them. With absolutely ZERO second chances.
    My #1 customer has been with me for 6 years. He is still my #1 customer by a very large margin.

  22. #4995
    Join Date
    Jan 2019
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    California
    Posts
    56
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    33
    Likes (Received)
    33

    Default

    I'm in this dilemma right now. Customer pushing for me to increase capacity but I want to pay off may last machine before buying a new one. This discussion has helped keep me grounded.

  23. Likes wheelieking71 liked this post
  24. #4996
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Location
    Gilbert, AZ
    Posts
    5,752
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    7180
    Likes (Received)
    7306

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by metal-ica View Post
    I'm in this dilemma right now. Customer pushing for me to increase capacity but I want to pay off may last machine before buying a new one. This discussion has helped keep me grounded.
    My last three machine purchases were all driven by the job that the Brother exists for.
    That is another fact some people may not realize? Or remember. The 2nd VF2ss, the Big Fat HAAS, and the Brother have all been purchases driven by that job.
    That job did not start last April when I finally had the Brother running. It started way back in 2015.
    The VF2ss is paid for. The Big Fat HAAS will be paid for in about a year. The Brother swings in the balance.

    Send me an NDA and print/solid! LOL

  25. #4997
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Geneva Illinois USA
    Posts
    6,034
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    2520
    Likes (Received)
    2338

    Default

    In the cases of the customer is hammering for more capacity and machines and facilities are acquired to fulfill the new capacity, Is there an agreement in writing that in case the job goes away for whatever reason, that the customer will have a cancellation charge?

    Tom

  26. #4998
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    Massachusetts
    Posts
    1,419
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    458
    Likes (Received)
    1217

    Default

    Wheelie,

    Get out of the shop leave !!! and stop at every potential customer in a 100 mile Radius and ask for work. Or get out of the shop and stop at every potential buyer and sell that Brother. You have two things to sell, Heck push both on the same people.

    Old school door to door cold calls. Plan the trip over the weekend and hit the road Monday morning leave early and drive out to you furthest stop. Then work your way back.

    You never know what may happen. Even job shops like you and bigger are potential customers or buyers. It will get you out and away, it will clear your head.

    Make Chips Boys !

    Ron

  27. Likes wheelieking71 liked this post
  28. #4999
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Location
    West Unity, Ohio
    Posts
    25,080
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    5316
    Likes (Received)
    7836

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Ox View Post
    I went one year.
    I was busy otherwise, but I had payments on much of the other stuff too...

    You are the one that lives with the ramifications of your decisions, and so it's certainly not my place to even have a recommendation.

    BUT - I will say this - that this whole "stepping beyond ones plan, or business model, or whatever" BS is not what the problem is.
    You had a job that was running hot. It had been running hot for some time. You were getting paid in a timely manner.
    Then - just as you ponied up for the threshold, the lights went out.

    Also - as with anything, there is always a bit more to the story that only you know and care to plaster over the net.
    Thus leaving any recommendations here somewhat skewed. (both pro or con)

    It had nothing to doo with any "business model" that I can see.
    I would like to think that your real "business model" is to keep good customers happy at a profit.
    I am sure that you were seeing more income per debt ratio with the new machine than you had when you started, so ???

    The only real question is what value this machine has to your current, or foreseable future?

    As was posted above recently - jobs like you are looking for doo not come down the pike every day.
    It could take 2-3 years for any particular job, or a new version to go up for quote.
    I would not expect to replace this job quickly.


    ------------------------

    Think Snow Eh!
    Ox

    edits:

    I went one year without hardly ANYTHING on my machine. (my first CNC lathe with bells / whistles is what he is refering to)

    Also - it's not like you don't have something to run in your machine.
    It's just not near capacity, and part of the reason that it's not to capacity is that it is so efficient.


    ---------------

    Spring's here!
    Robins and Buzzards arrived the last few days.
    Ox

  29. Likes wheelieking71 liked this post
  30. #5000
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Location
    Gilbert, AZ
    Posts
    5,752
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    7180
    Likes (Received)
    7306

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Ox View Post

    Also - it's not like you don't have something to run in your machine.
    It's just not near capacity, and part of the reason that it's not to capacity is that it is so efficient.


    ---------------

    Spring's here!
    Robins and Buzzards arrived the last few days.
    Ox
    Can you imagine how many of the Brother clan would kill me if they walked in here and the Brother's rapid override was on 4 instead of 100%?!
    I guess that would be better than the machine sitting dark like the last two times Andy was here, LOL.

  31. Likes Ox liked this post

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •