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  1. #5201
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    Quote Originally Posted by SND View Post
    As to the music I've been getting more into the southern country/rock stuff lately. Whiskey Myers, Blackberry Smoke, The Steelwoods, Chris Stapleton(the Jompson Brothers album mainly). Lost of great songs in there.
    I am a huge Chris Stapleton fan. Him and Jamey Johnson are my two favorite current Country artists.

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  3. #5202
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    So, this past summer has been the hardest stretch I have had to go through yet. Still not sure how I made it through? (its not over yet! LOL)
    After the "production" job getting shut down in Nov.'18, the Brother has pretty much sat idle since. That payment kept rolling out the window though!
    We did run about 1800 parts through it over the span of a couple months somewhere in the feb-may window. But, at peak production, that used to only be two weeks work.
    And, the only reason I did it was to keep Joe employed. He is fantastic, and I don't want to loose him. I can't wait until I can give him a raise!
    I spent a lot of time waffling back and forth on selling the Brother. Tried for a while. But, the reality is: I can't afford to sell it.
    Section 179 is a double edged sword! If I sold it? In order to break even with pay-off, and section 179 re-capture. The asking price is more than it will fetch.
    I have already used borrowed money to make payments. No way I am going in debt, to get iron off my floor!
    And, I really want to make it to the grave with my dignity, having never been on welfare, or filed bankruptcy. Tough it out!
    All this time I have been sitting on (more like tripping over) about 14000 assemblies worth of material for that job (7000pcs each of two custom extrusions).
    I knew it was coming back. The questions were: when? and, at what capacity?
    Ever since Nov.'18 I have wanted to just put vises in the Brother, and use it! It is right in front of my desk. And, I have been sitting here looking at a black screen on its control for 10 months!
    Talk about stress! But, the set-up that was in it was quite elaborate, and dedicated to those parts.
    And, getting vises in there, is not just a matter of plopping them on a table and tramming them in (because of the stupid Z travel to table relationship).
    Not mention I only own enough BT30 stuff for the set-up that is in it. And, dropping a few $k on tooling just wasn't possible.
    I have actually been super busy last couple months though. With that semi-conductor job. And, a couple customers seemed to run dry on everything all at once.
    Combined with a PO rolling in for family of parts that I prototyped almost 2 years ago (very closely related to the production job ("the next big thing")).
    Anyway, I am busy again! This is great! Stress levels haven't gone down! LOL.
    But, I have traded "doom & gloom" stress for "how am I gonna get all this done?" stress. That is a welcome trade!

    I also decided one day about a month ago: "fuck it! I'm putting vises in the Brother!"
    So I started in on that project. It's been slow going because I'm busy. First thing I had to do was steal vises from the big-fat-haas. That didn't hurt my feelings, LOL.
    The math worked out well for the Orange Vise situation. I have 10. I can fit 3 on each pallet in the Bro. That left 4 for one pallet in the big-fat-haas.
    Effectively rendering the big-fat-haas left as a normal VMC, ready for whatever just like its two little brother VF2's.
    The first issue with getting vises in the Brother, centered around the stupid Z to table relationship.
    Since there is no readily available riser that I know of, that is both affordable, and the exact form factor I want? That means build it yourself.
    The issue? Because I will be making the risers, and top-plate, I wanted to be able to dust the vise mounting surface flat in the machine after it is all bolted together.
    The issue can be seen here:

    img_20190826_171542_198.jpg

    That is the bottom of the Z travel. And, that side is the height at which I want both the new top-plates. No reachy!
    I tore the big set-up down anyways, knowing I would come up with a solution. Ordered more 7075 plates to make new tops from. And, chipped away at it when I could.
    First step was knock 2" off the height of the risers from the other pallet:

    20191002_181925.jpg

    20191002_180658.jpg

    Then square the sides, and punch the holes in the top plates:

    20191003_103943.jpg

    And, finally, bolt it all together in the Brother:

    20191003_130842.jpg
    Last edited by wheelieking71; 10-07-2019 at 04:25 PM.

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  5. #5203
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    Okay, that hurdle has been jumped. While all that was going down, Yamazen saw an IG post I made about the stupid Z to table situation, and found a shoulder-mill arbor that would get me where I needed to be! Thanks Clarence!

    20191007_073513.jpg

    Dusted flat!

    20191005_194137.jpg

    I set the Z origin dead center. And, surprisingly, .003" gave 100% clean-up. Was already pretty flat I guess.
    Ready for vises:

    20191005_214314.jpg

    And, finally! Vises in the Brother!

    20191006_150024.jpg

    20191006_145759.jpg

    This should seriously change the dynamic of the shop!
    Now, for the funny part (kinda ): I got the go word last week to fire the production job back up! LOL
    Guess what is going in the Brother HAHA. I am setting it up completely different though. Instead of running one part in the Brother, and the other in the big-fat-haas?
    I am putting them both in the Brother. One part on one pallet, the other part on the other. OP1 of each in the rear jaws, and OP2 in the front jaws.
    Whatever speed they fly out of there at? Is what speed he is gonna get them. I'm not going through what I have the last 10 months again! I can tell you that straight up for sure!

    Been a while since I put a "real" update in here. And, I had a few minutes this AM waiting on an updated model, so I figured why not.
    I am booked out for at least the rest of the year! So, I doubt there will be another one for a good while.
    But, as of right now, things are looking positive around here again. And, timing couldn't be better. I was close to the end of the rope.
    I'm pulling it back in as fast as I can. Time to wipe debt. If that spell repeats itself? I need to be in a much better position next time.
    Last edited by wheelieking71; 10-07-2019 at 04:36 PM.

  6. #5204
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    This is also a God send to Allison (sp?) Not just the money, but the gloom and doom is very wearing. Wasn't for her, you might be pushing daisy's.

    Tom

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    Quote Originally Posted by TDegenhart View Post
    This is also a God send to Allison (sp?) Not just the money, but the gloom and doom is very wearing. Wasn't for her, you might be pushing daisy's.

    Tom
    You got that right! She is my rock. She makes me exercise. Controls my diet. Listens to my issues. And, keeps the whole shebang in check!
    Funny you say that right now. Today is our anniversary, LOL

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    Looks great!

    Something that is done in some high production environments (and actually something I set up the day I left my last job) was a different job on each pallet for the R650. I have even seen two parts set up on one side and one on the other. To me ( maybe my Swiss experience?) I look at it as a way to balance load/unload and cycle time, no matter how that ends up looking on the table. I tried like hell to get the leadership team members to see that for the palletized 5-axis, too. Oh, well.

    I know that it is expensive, but don't shy away from zero point mounting systems (Lang is my go-to) for a machine like that. We had stuff we could move from a flat mount to the 4th axis or over to the 5-axis without taking it out of the vise, or with really good repeatability if we did have to take it out since we pre-stamped. Maybe it is because I'm not a machinist, but I think tramming vises in is the dumbest fucking thing this industry wastes time on. There are ball-lock and other systems out there, too. And all of them allow you to swap back and forth between custom fixturing and the venerable vise in a moment.

    Next thing you know you'll need a BK Mikro on there...

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    "When you get to the end of the rope, start climbing"...
    Happy Anniversary

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    Wheeli, glad you are getting back busy again. I know all to well myself the ups and downs of this business.I have experienced both sides of it these last few months. Congrats on your anniversary ,just celebrated one myself. hang in there.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rick Finsta View Post
    Maybe it is because I'm not a machinist, but I think tramming vises in is the dumbest fucking thing this industry wastes time on.
    That is why there are pins in the top plate. I have found that the pins in the Oranges get them within a tenth or two. Good enough for me!
    It is also why I machined those features in the Brother once it was all bolted together. I know for a fact it is square to the machine.
    I also did run an end-mill across the outside long edge of the top plate to give me a good surface to indicate in case it ever needs to go back in.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rick Finsta View Post
    Next thing you know you'll need a BK Mikro on there...
    Or just install the Metrol I already purchased with the machine? LOL

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    Awesome update mate.

    That setup on the brother looks great.

    I really wish I had some orange vices they seem really nice.

    Ohh man the joy of having a booked out year. Must be great. I can max see a week forward but that's normal to me.

    B&A Precision

    Sendt fra min EML-L29 med Tapatalk

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    Metrol makes good stuff, have a great week.

    Charles

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    Ive been watching you while going through the same thing Wheelie. We could not keep up.... I spent $100K on three real nice used machines last fall and hired a top guy full time. Getting the machines on the floor and tooled up cost me a ton of money then add a new top pay full time guy, I was stretched out big time. Then the bottom fell out. Still climbing out of it but there is light at the end of the tunnel, "I just hope it's not a train"

    Keep up the fight man

    Make Chips Boys !

    Ron

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    Just quoted a job that I am considering making sumpthing like this "vise".





    I scrolled back umpteen pages, but still only made it back to January of this year, so I could be dead before finding the posts about these type units.

    Seems like you put a steel threaded insert in the back side?


    The one main concern that I have with your design is that you don't seem to have a "zero datum" point as your front and rear jaws both appear to have movement.
    I would prolly just want to slit one side so's to maintain control of Y zero.


    Thoughts?



    ----------------------

    Think Snow Eh!
    Ox

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ox View Post
    Just quoted a job that I am considering making sumpthing like this "vise".

    I scrolled back umpteen pages, but still only made it back to January of this year, so I could be dead before finding the posts about these type units.

    Seems like you put a steel threaded insert in the back side?


    The one main concern that I have with your design is that you don't seem to have a "zero datum" point as your front and rear jaws both appear to have movement.
    I would prolly just want to slit one side so's to maintain control of Y zero.


    Thoughts?



    ----------------------

    Think Snow Eh!
    Ox
    They are double vises Ox.
    The front/rear sections are the "move" jaws. There is a pocket in the center "fixed" section between them that locates the parts.
    And, there is a plain shallow counterbore between those pockets. Sweep that counterbore with an indicator for origin (front and rear).
    I just offset one part to the front, one to the rear in CAM.

    20180402_100131.jpg

    20180402_145436.jpg

    I failed to mention, the top longitudinal holes are reamed .515". Then you clamp on .500" pins to cut the pockets for the parts.
    This causes them to spring open a fuzz to facilitate unload/load of parts. Works perfect.

    Also, I can not take credit for this. I straight up copied the Steven's "soft brick". Stevens Short Softbrick Vise 20251
    I would have just bought Soft Bricks if they had a form-factor that worked for these parts. They didn't and weren't interested in running a custom size (I tried!)
    I think I could send you a geometry file for something to start with. Modify as you see fit.

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    Ah - "double" vise.
    That makes sense.

    I would be lookin' to prolly make a couple that were actually one block a cpl feet long, or at least as long as my saw will slit....
    Not lookin' to git nearly as involved as you did here.

    Thanks for clarification tho!

    Will keep the "double" option in mind tho too!


    ---------------------

    Think Snow Eh!
    Ox

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    Did you jist helicoil the back side, or use sumpthin' a bit more robust for repeated use?
    Like a threaded sleeve?

    How 'bout under the head?
    Did you use a hardened worsher?
    Or maybe even a hardened shouldered sleeve that presses/slips down inside the upper bore a bit?

    I have some fixtures that (when in use) we maybe tighten/loosen maybe 15 times a day.
    These are 1/4-20 SHCS's in 4140 PH, and either tightening by hand with a T handle allen wrench, or a light hit with a 3/8 batt powered drill with low trq setting.
    All too frequently I need to pull those wedges all back off and run a drill back through the holes to open them back up as they mushroom down in, even in the harder material with only medium torque.

    So - kind'a wonderin' how yours were set up this way, or even what Steve does with theirs?
    OR - maybe just what troubles you've had in regards to this in production?

    I can see that Steve has at least a worsher under his, but .. maybe it's a sleeve?
    The hex head likely is more better to keep chips from gathering up in the socket head...


    ----------------------

    Think Snow Eh!
    Ox

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    How'd you get those slits? Wire EDM?

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    Quote Originally Posted by as9100d View Post
    How'd you get those slits? Wire EDM?
    I was wondering the same thing. I can see the vertical slits to be done with a slitting saw, but the angled ones are a little trickier!

    Did you just do them with a vertical bandsaw?

    Jacques

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dupa3872 View Post
    Ive been watching you while going through the same thing Wheelie. We could not keep up.... I spent $100K on three real nice used machines last fall and hired a top guy full time. Getting the machines on the floor and tooled up cost me a ton of money then add a new top pay full time guy, I was stretched out big time. Then the bottom fell out. Still climbing out of it but there is light at the end of the tunnel, "I just hope it's not a train"

    Keep up the fight man

    Make Chips Boys !

    Ron
    Hey I think I know who you are. You are on YouTube right B&A Precision

    Sendt fra min EML-L29 med Tapatalk

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    Quote Originally Posted by jariou View Post
    I was wondering the same thing. I can see the vertical slits to be done with a slitting saw, but the angled ones are a little trickier!

    Did you just do them with a vertical bandsaw?

    Jacques
    You are correct on both counts.


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