B&A Precision - Page 282
Close
Login to Your Account
Page 282 of 283 FirstFirst ... 182232272280281282283 LastLast
Results 5,621 to 5,640 of 5652

Thread: B&A Precision

  1. #5621
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    Louisiana
    Posts
    536
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    202
    Likes (Received)
    315

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by bryan_machine View Post
    So I'll just point out that this helps show why all the people who complain that businesses are "too short sighted" are often full of it. It's not hard to imagine a world where the pay-off time was shorter, or the job lasted longer, and the same floor space with the same machinery was paid off and looking for work, instead of being a cash drain and looking for work. It's not for want of working hard at it on Wheelie's part, it's just reality.
    Engineer: Why can't you do!?!
    Machinist/Business Owner: I can do, but not profitably!

    Age old conundrum. Good luck Wheelie you'll survive and I know your pain, my family and I had to sell off 4 less than 3 year old big Mazaks when oil crashed in 2014, it hurts.

  2. #5622
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Location
    Canada
    Posts
    11,572
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    6360
    Likes (Received)
    3733

    Default

    Sorry to hear the job got shut down again so soon after you put the work and risk to get it up to speed to meet the supposed "demand" again, but I'm not all that surprised this happened a 2nd time, hopefully won't be a 3rd eh.

    I mentioned a few times this past year or so that now's the time to really put in the hours and pile the cash/pay debt down and prepare for the worst while the crazy money is flowing. Selling off that machine, hopefully without too much of a loss is probably a good idea. I'd sell while people are still buying/spending like crazy, there's no telling how long this will last, probably longer than it should though...
    I've roughly doubled production here but haven't added any machines, thought about it, wouldn't even have to borrow anything but I just have the feeling that as soon as I do something big to increase production more, the bottom will fall out. Rather wait it out a while longer and do the 100+hr weeks. People always get over excited in these times and that can make for bad decisions, I know a few around in the real world that risk to lose everything when it turns like 2000/2008 or 1929...

    Only real way to justify keeping a robot fed machine like that is if you had your own products that it can pump out thousands of to sell. If you can think of some stupid basic thing people would buy, could be good $ though... its getting tough to find what new fancy thing to build in a world with fidget spinner butt plugs though, where to go from there...
    Though there's always the option of taking something everyone else is making and just trying to beat them on quality and price, maybe some gun or bike accessory or such.

    anyway, back to work, just got a new phase perfect to replace my oldest one, gonna see how the 3rd gen model does.

  3. Likes wheelieking71, Ox, DrHook liked this post
  4. #5623
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Location
    Gilbert, AZ
    Posts
    7,206
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    9567
    Likes (Received)
    9265

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by SND View Post
    Sorry to hear the job got shut down again so soon after you put the work and risk to get it up to speed to meet the supposed "demand" again, but I'm not all that surprised this happened a 2nd time, hopefully won't be a 3rd eh.

    I mentioned a few times this past year or so that now's the time to really put in the hours and pile the cash/pay debt down and prepare for the worst while the crazy money is flowing. Selling off that machine, hopefully without too much of a loss is probably a good idea. I'd sell while people are still buying/spending like crazy, there's no telling how long this will last, probably longer than it should though...
    I've roughly doubled production here but haven't added any machines, thought about it, wouldn't even have to borrow anything but I just have the feeling that as soon as I do something big to increase production more, the bottom will fall out. Rather wait it out a while longer and do the 100+hr weeks. People always get over excited in these times and that can make for bad decisions, I know a few around in the real world that risk to lose everything when it turns like 2000/2008 or 1929...

    Only real way to justify keeping a robot fed machine like that is if you had your own products that it can pump out thousands of to sell. If you can think of some stupid basic thing people would buy, could be good $ though... its getting tough to find what new fancy thing to build in a world with fidget spinner butt plugs though, where to go from there...
    Though there's always the option of taking something everyone else is making and just trying to beat them on quality and price, maybe some gun or bike accessory or such.

    anyway, back to work, just got a new phase perfect to replace my oldest one, gonna see how the 3rd gen model does.
    Yes Sir! Agreed 100%! All except the 100hr weeks part. I'm done with those.
    I look in the mirror these days and think to myself: "who the 'eff is this guy?!" I have aged way more in the last few years than I should have!

  5. Likes Chris Attebery liked this post
  6. #5624
    Join Date
    Mar 2013
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    New York
    Posts
    3,883
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    2843
    Likes (Received)
    2486

    Default

    I cant say Im proud to have shut down my business...even before I could begin to feel any real success.

    I learned a lot in those 5 years. I learned a lot about myself and a lot about people.

    100 hour weeks and having a wife and 2 young kids are not a good combination in my opinion. Even without the wife and kids....you really really have to love what your making to even consider that as a worth while life.

    Life is too short. Ive gained a lot of perspective through my business endeavor which ultimately pays dividends in my quality of life now. Im not trying to discourage anyone from starting a machine shop. Its a little difficult to divulge my opinion relative to my situation because ive always felt that manufacturing is the backbone of our consumer universe. but I dont miss the stress of 100 hour weeks. I dont miss the competitive nature. I dont miss the assholes I had been dying to impress. I dont miss looking for work. I dont miss trying to pay for that mill lol

    I applaud anyone that has been able to make it in this realm. Its cliche to say- but a dog eat dog world out there where we all pretend to be brothers until we are bidding on the work.

    again- much respect to those who can make it work. I understand my situation is different than others out there. Im glad I chased my dream. Im also happy with where I am now that my goals have shifted. Life is too short.

  7. #5625
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Location
    Gilbert, AZ
    Posts
    7,206
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    9567
    Likes (Received)
    9265

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by allloutmx View Post
    I cant say Im proud to have shut down my business...even before I could begin to feel any real success.

    I learned a lot in those 5 years. I learned a lot about myself and a lot about people.

    100 hour weeks and having a wife and 2 young kids are not a good combination in my opinion. Even without the wife and kids....you really really have to love what your making to even consider that as a worth while life.

    Life is too short. Ive gained a lot of perspective through my business endeavor which ultimately pays dividends in my quality of life now. Im not trying to discourage anyone from starting a machine shop. Its a little difficult to divulge my opinion relative to my situation because ive always felt that manufacturing is the backbone of our consumer universe. but I dont miss the stress of 100 hour weeks. I dont miss the competitive nature. I dont miss the assholes I had been dying to impress. I dont miss looking for work. I dont miss trying to pay for that mill lol

    I applaud anyone that has been able to make it in this realm. Its cliche to say- but a dog eat dog world out there where we all pretend to be brothers until we are bidding on the work.

    again- much respect to those who can make it work. I understand my situation is different than others out there. Im glad I chased my dream. Im also happy with where I am now that my goals have shifted. Life is too short.
    Yea buddy! You made the right choice. If for no other reason than your kids!
    They are only gonna grow up one time! You choosing to be there speaks volumes man!
    I learned a shit-ton about wrenching from my dad. But, not because we had a good relationship.
    He was always "working". So, I was just in the shadows, paying attention. I learned more about wrenching than most (these days) will ever know. Just from watching.
    But we never did have, and still don't have, a good relationship.
    Just because we spent time together, doesn't mean jack shit. The quality of time sucked. He was putting in those 100hr weeks. So, what could you expect?!
    You only get one shot Bro! You made the right choice!

  8. Likes DrHook liked this post
  9. #5626
    Join Date
    Mar 2013
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    New York
    Posts
    3,883
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    2843
    Likes (Received)
    2486

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by wheelieking71 View Post
    Yea buddy! You made the right choice. If for no other reason than your kids!
    They are only gonna grow up one time! You choosing to be there speaks volumes man!
    I learned a shit-ton about wrenching from my dad. But, not because we had a good relationship.
    He was always "working". So, I was just in the shadows, paying attention. I learned more about wrenching than most (these days) will ever know. Just from watching.
    But we never did have, and still don't have, a good relationship.
    Just because we spent time together, doesn't mean jack shit. The quality of time sucked. He was putting in those 100hr weeks. So, what could you expect?!
    You only get one shot Bro! You made the right choice!
    Im glad I tried. wish it would have worked out different but sometimes you set goals with great intentions and life evolves in ways you couldnt foresee when you set those goals. I dont want be kids to grow up the way I did. Mama tried....and im definitely not my daddy.

  10. Likes wheelieking71 liked this post
  11. #5627
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    Annapolis, Maryland
    Posts
    547
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    785
    Likes (Received)
    300

    Default

    Wheelie -

    I'm not by any means qualified to give advice in these matters, but as a frequent observer of this thread over many years (its probably my main draw to PM), there are a few things that stand out about it:

    1) You're a talented dude (I've said this previously)
    2) You're resilient as hell
    3) You've got some serious balls to put the amount of money on the line that you do, moving machines on a regular basis, etc.
    4) It seems like every time you get hit upside the head in this endeavor, somehow you bounce back twice as strong.

    I'd have to go back through pages of posts, but it seems like you were in about the same place about two years ago, and then bang, you were back in, upgrading machinery to even bigger and better and faster.

    If I were a betting man, I'd be betting on you bouncing back in a big(ger) way. History suggests it.

    I'm with the previous suggestions of drink a few brews and then sell the shit out of the robot crowd (peanut gallery). Seems like you have the balls/skills/luck to do it...

  12. Likes DrHook liked this post
  13. #5628
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Location
    Gilbert, AZ
    Posts
    7,206
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    9567
    Likes (Received)
    9265

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Antarctica View Post
    Wheelie -

    I'm not by any means qualified to give advice in these matters, but as a frequent observer of this thread over many years (its probably my main draw to PM), there are a few things that stand out about it:

    1) You're a talented dude (I've said this previously)
    2) You're resilient as hell
    3) You've got some serious balls to put the amount of money on the line that you do, moving machines on a regular basis, etc.
    4) It seems like every time you get hit upside the head in this endeavor, somehow you bounce back twice as strong.

    I'd have to go back through pages of posts, but it seems like you were in about the same place about two years ago, and then bang, you were back in, upgrading machinery to even bigger and better and faster.

    If I were a betting man, I'd be betting on you bouncing back in a big(ger) way. History suggests it.

    I'm with the previous suggestions of drink a few brews and then sell the shit out of the robot crowd (peanut gallery). Seems like you have the balls/skills/luck to do it...
    Thanks man!

    I have a little work on the books. The back-log was getting pretty thin a couple weeks ago. But we got a few orders.
    There is enough to cover a couple months now. I'm cozy.

    The robot leaves tomorrow morning! I got an offer for it, and I jumped on it!
    Yea, I'm taking a $20k hit. But, sometimes the smart move is cut your loss, and RUN!
    $20k is less than 4 payments. It could have easily taken 6-8 or more months to sell that thing. Possibly for even less money.
    Realistically, that thing could have easily put me in the poor-house through efforts to save my credit, or not file bankrupt.
    All things considered, I feel like I am coming off the back end of that thing smelling like roses!
    Even after tooling and expenses, I am still way ahead if it's earnings are factored in. It made WAY more than $20k + the payments I did make.
    The biggest negative after it leaves tomorrow will be the 4 holes left behind in my concrete where it was lagged down.
    Hidden bonus on the deal:
    The buyer is even more space-limited than me. They asked if I would sell it with the smaller Mayfran sump/conveyor from behind my R650.
    I was of course open to that idea!!!!!!!!!!!!

  14. Likes Ox, Philabuster, SND liked this post
  15. #5629
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Location
    West Unity, Ohio
    Posts
    27,365
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    7764
    Likes (Received)
    9553

    Default

    Yeah .. no longer than that was on your floor, for you to be able to say that you are actually going to be net+ in the end of that duration, that is GOOD!


    Hint, if you grind the body parts up small enough, you can likely hide a cpl bodies down those holes and then seal it up afterwards.
    Forensic Files has not gotten onto that scenario yet, so you would be safe for some time I'd think.


    -------------------

    Think Snow Eh!
    Ox

  16. Likes wheelieking71, DrHook liked this post
  17. #5630
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Location
    Gilbert, AZ
    Posts
    7,206
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    9567
    Likes (Received)
    9265

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Ox View Post


    Hint, if you grind the body parts up small enough, you can likely hide a cpl bodies down those holes and then seal it up afterwards.
    Forensic Files has not gotten onto that scenario yet, so you would be safe for some time I'd think.


    -------------------

    Think Snow Eh!
    Ox
    You could have emailed me that in private you know!

  18. #5631
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Location
    West Unity, Ohio
    Posts
    27,365
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    7764
    Likes (Received)
    9553

    Default

    You want I should edit that out?


    ----------

    Think Snow Eh!
    Ox

  19. Likes wheelieking71 liked this post
  20. #5632
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Pillager, MN
    Posts
    6,298
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    1930
    Likes (Received)
    6127

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Ox View Post
    Yeah .. no longer than that was on your floor, for you to be able to say that you are actually going to be net+ in the end of that duration, that is GOOD!


    Hint, if you grind the body parts up small enough, you can likely hide a cpl bodies down those holes and then seal it up afterwards.
    Forensic Files has not gotten onto that scenario yet, so you would be safe for some time I'd think.


    -------------------

    Think Snow Eh!
    Ox
    Makes to wonder what's under the crete at Ox's place?

  21. Likes wheelieking71 liked this post
  22. #5633
    Join Date
    May 2017
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    Massachusetts
    Posts
    343
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    21
    Likes (Received)
    98

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by wheelieking71 View Post
    The robot leaves tomorrow morning! I got an offer for it, and I jumped on it!
    Yea, I'm taking a $20k hit. But, sometimes the smart move is cut your loss, and RUN!
    $20k is less than 4 payments. It could have easily taken 6-8 or more months to sell that thing. Possibly for even less money.
    Sounds like the main loss was the elimination of future earnings, which is a bummer after staring at what could have been on the spreadsheet. Seems like you did okay overall though.

    A lot of people will push that shops need to be diversified to limit ups and downs. There is a real argument for running very lean and taking concentrated risks though. It is really one of the few paths for a small shop to reach to the next earnings level. Becoming more diversified can make the whole operation significantly less lean. You just need to make sure that the risks won't wipe you out, which you seem to have navigated.

  23. Likes DavidScott liked this post
  24. #5634
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Location
    Gilbert, AZ
    Posts
    7,206
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    9567
    Likes (Received)
    9265

    Default

    I learned another lesson through my whole hyrdo-fixture/4th rotaries/robot spending spree over the last 8-10 months I feel compelled to share!

    After I graduated out of the high-interest/easy-money lending places, I started using US Bank. They were great in the beginning.
    Did 4 or 5 loans with them. Well, my go-to guy there got a promotion, and the service promptly went to shit. Communication was almost non-existent.
    I looked around when I was buying the Brother R650 and found another place, who shall remain nameless. I financed that machine with them.
    All was great! Super easy to deal with. Quick. Good interest rates. I had zero complaints. So I used them for all the other stuff.

    Okay, here is where it gets all fucked up: I laid all the purchases I had planned out in the very beginning. The stuff listed above ^^^^^^
    He asked me if I just wanted to tack it on the tail end of the existing loan (the one for the R650).
    I replied "no, just keep everything separate, on its own note". That was the end of the conversation! As, the R650 is winding down, I want it paid off!
    Each time it was time to fund something they would come to me with the loan docs to sign. Stand at a table in my shop. Flip through the contract.
    I would scan each page. Ask questions if I had any. And I would initial and/or sign the appropriate pages. They would leave (with the contract).

    Fast forward to tax time! My tax guy asks for all the info. I request copies of the contracts. And, what do I see?!

    These dirty Cock-Suckers have cross-collateral'ed EVERYTHING! Each loan has everything I have financed through them listed on it!
    Including the R650! Which that loan is 4 years old and getting close to being paid off!
    And me, not getting a hard paper copy of the contracts at signing, am left without a leg to stand on!
    Now, I know, 100% certain with zero doubt in my mind, that the day I signed there is no way the pages in the contracts that lists the "security",
    showed all this equipment, each time I signed. The list is in bold print, stands out like a sore thumb, and I would have seen it, and NEVER! signed.

    Of course they are telling me it was all listed. Now I am double mad because they are calling me a liar at this point!

    Moral of the story: get a paper copy of whatever it is you are signing, when you sign it!

    So, at this point they have definitely lost a customer! Period, end of story!
    My current focus is two-fold. #1, Stay in business. #2, pay off all debt to those dirty motherfuckers!

    Back to US Bank I go! I need to find a new contact there though.

  25. #5635
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Location
    Gilbert, AZ
    Posts
    7,206
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    9567
    Likes (Received)
    9265

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by newtonsapple View Post
    Sounds like the main loss was the elimination of future earnings, which is a bummer after staring at what could have been on the spreadsheet. Seems like you did okay overall though.

    A lot of people will push that shops need to be diversified to limit ups and downs. There is a real argument for running very lean and taking concentrated risks though. It is really one of the few paths for a small shop to reach to the next earnings level. Becoming more diversified can make the whole operation significantly less lean. You just need to make sure that the risks won't wipe you out, which you seem to have navigated.
    I get why people think it is important to "diversify". But, meh, I would rather specialize.
    My angle is, I break the good/fast/cheap triangle in the milled aluminum widget production world.
    I go just far enough at each tip of the triangle. No more, no less. And provide all three.

    So I personally don't want to diversify my work. Customers is another story! I definitely need to diversify there!

  26. Likes Ox, DrHook liked this post
  27. #5636
    Join Date
    Mar 2019
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    Wisconsin
    Posts
    870
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    47
    Likes (Received)
    321

    Default

    ....."using US Bank. They were great in the beginning.
    Did 4 or 5 loans with them. Well, my go-to guy there got a promotion,"

    Oh yeah...my first line of credit was thrust upon me by a US Bank "personal banker". We had a small branch at the time where you know all the counter people with a lot of banter going on.

    So one day a new person walks up, hands me card, and informs me I need a line of credit. Of course I do because I'm beating credit cards to death funding deal I'm involved in. She explains me the error of my ways using credit cards and suggests a line of credit.

    30 minutes later I walk out with a pretty good credit line. Unsecured (nice) and promptly call a machine sales guy and write an order for a CNC tool rooms lathe. Make a payment or two, mention the purchase to my "personal banker" and they cut a check and I pay off the machine. Interest rate was really doable.

    After that multiple product purchases preceded with a call saying how much and I need a wire transfer. Nice!

    Been a U.S. Bank customer ever since. I often thought the business loan people were the beginning of a career path and if they were good moved up the ladder. Down here they seemed to cycle every 6 months or so.

    And...Your probably breathing a sigh of relief with the robot disposal which frees you up to get on with business.

    Wish you all the luck!---Lots of have had similar experiences.

  28. Likes wheelieking71 liked this post
  29. #5637
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Location
    West Unity, Ohio
    Posts
    27,365
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    7764
    Likes (Received)
    9553

    Default

    Unsecured Line of Credit?
    Seriously?


    -----------------------

    Think Snow Eh!
    Ox

  30. Likes wheelieking71 liked this post
  31. #5638
    Join Date
    Mar 2019
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    Wisconsin
    Posts
    870
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    47
    Likes (Received)
    321

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Ox View Post
    Unsecured Line of Credit?
    Seriously?


    -----------------------

    Think Snow Eh!
    Ox
    "Unsecured revolving line of credit" The revolving part got worked heavy.

  32. #5639
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Location
    West Unity, Ohio
    Posts
    27,365
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    7764
    Likes (Received)
    9553

    Default

    Dare I ask how high limit?

    Personally - I am fine with having any of my debt backed up, but it does feel nice when you can say for sure that "That is mine", and that it's not tied to something else somewhere...



    -------------------

    Think Snow Eh!
    Ox

  33. Likes wheelieking71 liked this post
  34. #5640
    Join Date
    Mar 2019
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    Wisconsin
    Posts
    870
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    47
    Likes (Received)
    321

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Ox View Post
    Dare I ask how high limit?

    Personally - I am fine with having any of my debt backed up, but it does feel nice when you can say for sure that "That is mine", and that it's not tied to something else somewhere...



    -------------------

    Think Snow Eh!
    Ox
    Used to be $100K max with no nasty credit history. The interest rate might not be for the feint of heart.

    Basically credit cards are unsecured credit so if opportunity presents itself the reality is most people in business have a good size line if credit. Again not much room for error if the cash flow/profit gets ate up by interest.

    Gets real sketchy when you max the plastic AND the credit line. Been the ruin if many a good man.
    Just looked on the US Bank site...shows $100K unsecured.


Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •