Building a new shop. Ideas and hints!

ZachN · Nov 29, 2014

We are looking to build a new shop.
Currently we have a small Cnc lathe and decent size mill. A Bridgeport and a decent size manual lathe. Plus various support equipment and related stuff. It's a 2-3 person shop and it's all in less than 900 sq foot currently. When we build we will be adding a machine or two. As well as a Cnc bandsaw and more man power with time.
Most of our parts are small, 1inch and under OD. But as we get in to bigger stuff I'm thinking some type of overhead crane/trolley is a good thing to plan from the beginning.

General ideas:

Floor heat? Yes or no.

How many sq feet per machine? I know this is hard to say. But how about a "I have 7 machines and 5 guys in 7000sq ft." Just for a rough idea.

How thick of floor should we need?

Pole barn, stick built, or steel framed construction? Rural Iowa area and there is no code to deal with this...

Other ideas and things you would have done different because hindsight is 20/20, let them fly!

Thanks!

WILLEO6709 · Nov 29, 2014

ZachN said:
How many sq feet per machine? I know this is hard to say. But how about a "I have 7 machines and 5 guys in 7000sq ft." Just for a rough idea.

It mostly depends on your machines. I have seen boring mills that would not fit 1 machine in 7000 square feet.

Only you can say what you can afford,,, build as big as you can comfortably afford.
Plan for expansion as you can afford it.
plan for a truck dock and a ramp to ground level to get the forklift out.....
but for a bandsaw like you are talking I'd say you want a stock rack and a 25' runout table( many angle and structurals are 25')

Floor heat I am not a fan of but many like. I like to be able to install things like jib cranes without worrying where the heat lines are.

dkmc · Nov 29, 2014

When I read the title, I thought IN FLOOR HEAT

reedeprintice · Nov 29, 2014

I have about 3,000 sq feet I heat in the winter -Mind you its not as cold here

, 18 sometimes , I like my gas heater allot . Its fast and pretty cheap to run. I would think insulation everywhere ceiling ect maybe double. Exhaust fans are nice . I would also think 5-7" thick on the floor depending on the weight of the machine .

tailstock · Nov 29, 2014

Insulation is the cheapest heat you can get, don't be afraid to over do it. Love my heated floor, but yes you do have to give some thought before random anchor hole drilling. Give yourself lots of overhead space, never know when you might want something tall. If you can, keep fabricating, welding and grinding in separate part of shop away from machines. Put air conditioning in shop about five years ago, don't know why I didn't do it thirty years ago, makes working a joy. If putting down floor pad, remember to pack the base and then pack it some more and when you think it is well packed, pack it some more. It's cheap insurance against a messed up floor that's too late to fix. :codger:

ZachN · Nov 29, 2014

Yes insulation is a must. We go weeks when 18F isn't even in range of the mercury. Last winter we did 10 days with a HIGH of 0F and lows of like -20. And I'm not talking wind chills.

ZachN · Nov 29, 2014

@reede: how many guys and machines in the 3,000 sq ft?
Realistically I think we can build 60x100 on the ground we have. That's 6,000 which is going to be way better than what we have now.... But I wanna get a feel for it.

t.jones · Nov 30, 2014

I built a shop with in floor heat it wasn't worth the trouble. New shop floor I spent more time and money on proper drainage. ---Trevor

reedeprintice · Nov 30, 2014

ZachN said:
@reede: how many guys and machines in the 3,000 sq ft?
Realistically I think we can build 60x100 on the ground we have. That's 6,000 which is going to be way better than what we have now.... But I wanna get a feel for it.

about 12 machines in that area of the shop and 3 guys mainly , I have 6,200 sq feet over all , but the broach is in the " cold " side of the shop . I have a few bays pretty open , one is mainly for shipping though. In my situation I have the 2 saws centrally located , and have the means to bring in a 6" od 50" long solid bar and chop it up. I also have my main machines I run personally close to each other in a 20 foot area other wise with my need to run all at once to save time , I end up walking 5 miles a day . Are you going to build your shop to withstand a smaller tornado? We have a farm near Cedar Rapids and that kind of thing is rolling thru from time to time.

ZachN · Nov 30, 2014

Ya we have to build it "tornado proof" haha if there is such a thing. I know of a guy that lost his shop to that a few years back. So yes very much part of the plan.

IronReb · Nov 30, 2014

What ever footage you go with be sure to place the building in a way with the thought that later on you will add on.
You never know what the future holds, in 10 years you may or may not be bumping into each other and need even more footage.

I hope that's the case for you.

When you get quotes for heating equipment your socks are gonna fall down at the cost to install.

Even if the present budget doesn't allow for it still build the building as if you were, 5 years from now you may wanna add the heat.

I know jack shit about what size footings to poor or beams to use to support over head cranes but to me that is the more serious questions to be answered
and addressed.
Will you ever wanna run an overhead crane?
If so, how much weight do you wanna be able to lift?

I am getting the feeling yall will build this your self?

If you plan on doing it all I would STRONGLY suggest paying an engineer to draw up blue prints for you foundation and structure and stick to the drawings.
Paying him $$$$ is cheaper than having an AWW SHIT!!! later on.

IronReb · Nov 30, 2014

ZachN said:
Ya we have to build it "tornado proof" haha if there is such a thing. I know of a guy that lost his shop to that a few years back. So yes very much part of the plan.

The only tornado proofing one can do in tornado alley is have quick access to a hole in the ground isn't it?

If a tornado passes over our shop......well, best hope your on speaking terms with St Peter.

ZachN · Nov 30, 2014

Even a hole in the ground isn't perfect! But yes.

ZachN · Nov 30, 2014

And no we are going to hire it all built. May do some of the finish stuff ourself. But the building, floors, doors, heating and basic electric are all going to be done. We will "customize" it from there most likely.

Heavey Metal · Nov 30, 2014

+1 on getting a foundation engineer.

When I had my shop built the concrete hands with there envelope drawings where north of 50k.

They all insisted that I coldnt afford a bell pier foundation because of the cost of the pier truck and drilling.

Went to the civil engineer $500, pier truck $1,800, cement,hoops, bar, and anchor bolts for 12 piers 9'x9' $5,000 no forming necessary.

Built the building on the piers first and got the slab poured at a substantial reduced rate cause the where able to pour in the rain with cement that

would have had to be wasted cause they couldnt pour in the rain(on another job) and the cement was already dispatched.

Servicar rider · Nov 30, 2014

Zach, I'm at the other end of the state from you so I know what the weather can be like. My advice is to build your building twice the size you think you will need. Every body I know says they wished they had built theirs bigger. Do your research on building styles, lots of new technology out there. I like in floor heat but the guys who say it isn't worth it didn't do a proper design, put as much insulation as you can afford and plan to put more in later. ICF or insulated concrete form is a new technology that has many benefits and the costs are coming down, look into it online, compare costs, right now it is 3-5% more, but the savings and comfort to heat and cool make it worthwhile. Many contractors don't know about the advantages so will talk bad about it because they are old fashioned and used to the way everything has been done for years.
If you have the luxury and land size look into proper placement of the building can be beneficial too. My building faces south and the front of my building is warm even at -20 and the sun does most of my snow shoveling unlike the guy across the street who has ice on his sidewalk until june. Proper planning and materials will make this chore alot easier.
Jeff

ZachN · Nov 30, 2014

Unfortunately we really only have one option. This building has to face north. I'm pretty land locked in that way.

But I'm going to read up on the ICF. I like the concrete walls idea. But was afraid they would add huge costs.

Servicar rider · Nov 30, 2014

THe new ICF systems are getting really neat and simple. The other advantages are they are quiet and fire and pest resistant. Ask your insurance man about insurance costs versus a wood building. Another area of future savings and they are stronger in a tornado too. And no I'm not a salesman for an ICF building company I'm just curious about the new technologies.
Jeff

axkiker · Nov 30, 2014

Just a thought but I am a big fan of waste oil heaters. Guessing in Iowa you get a half way descent summer where no heat / little is needed. You could store up enough waste oil to hopefully heat the entire winter. Worst case you could supplement the heat with FREE waste oil.

Friend of mine has a HUGE company with a building over the 50k sq ft mark. Most winters he heats only with waste tranny / motor oil.

ZachN · Nov 30, 2014

We currently heat both the shop and office building with waste oil heat. Yes I like it and will sure use it some in the new shop, but oil is getting very hard to find. We don't generate much ourself. So we have to buy it. 10 yrs ago people would pay you to take it. 5 yrs ago you would just get it for nothing. 3 yrs ago we
Would pay $0.10 a gallon. This year? I'm having to pay as much as $1.10 a gallon! It's almost to the point propane is cheaper. So I want floor heat on a heat pump and use oil for what I get cheap. Then not buy they high priced oil when I don't need it.

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