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  1. #941
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ox View Post
    Neighbor caught this in his barn a cpl days ago:







    ------------------------

    Frankenstein
    Ox
    Gonna teach 'em to push the green "Cycle Start" button ?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ox View Post
    Neighbor caught this in his barn a cpl days ago:





    ------------------------

    Frankenstein
    Ox
    Albino, nice it has survived this far, not to bad considering most albino animals dont live to get full size. Being nocturnal is probably the only reason it has made it.

    Charles

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    In this area albino and white (apparently they are not the same thing) animals are protected from on high. Neighbor had an albino squirrel get hit in front of his house. It took him over a year to get paperwork to have it mounted by a taxidermist.

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    For many years now I have wished that I had a second master drill cabinet - for used drills. But they aint overly cheap, but mostly - I just didn't have a good place to put another one. Well, this winter we shuffled some schtuff around and in the process, we got access to part of the back side of some pallet racking, and thus - we now have "a place to put".

    Then there is the time thing.... But I have a nephew that needs sumpthin' to doo this summer, so one morning this last week he learned all about fractions, numbers, and letters.

    I was quite surprised at how empty it is when all done tho. I had 3 tool boxes that each had a drawer clear full of used drills. They were full enough that I had gotten to the point of maybe not looking through them anymore as it would be Tuesday before I found the right tool anymore. So I thought that it would fill up quicker...

    [img]https://aqjhj5aebf-flywheel.netdna-s...5-1000x667.jpg[/img]






    Poll:

    If your beans go in 6 weeks late, yet there is no wheat involved .... is it still considered "Double Crop Beans"?



    -------------------

    Got Low Pressure?
    Ox

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ox View Post
    Poll:

    If your beans go in 6 weeks late, yet there is no wheat involved .... is it still considered "Double Crop Beans"?
    Troll:

    With the recent and ongoing variances in climate and "weather", how does one even ascertain what is "six weeks late"?


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    Quote Originally Posted by thermite View Post
    Troll:

    With the recent and ongoing variances in climate and "weather", how does one even ascertain what is "six weeks late"?

    nice to see you back (I think).

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    Quote Originally Posted by wheelieking71 View Post
    nice to see you back (I think).
    *yawn* better the beans are six weeks late than the girlfriend's .

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    So I noted the six week late comment about the beans, and thought, shouldn’t be an issue.

    But. . . The fields around my house were just planted last week with beans. . .

    How about when she’s 12 weeks late?!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Fal Grunt View Post
    So I noted the six week late comment about the beans, and thought, shouldn’t be an issue.

    But. . . The fields around my house were just planted last week with beans. . .

    How about when she’s 12 weeks late?!
    You would be in deep shit! Remember to bag that sucker!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Fal Grunt View Post
    So I noted the six week late comment about the beans, and thought, shouldn’t be an issue.

    But. . . The fields around my house were just planted last week with beans. . .

    How about when she’s 12 weeks late?!

    There is a chance that it is intended as a crop, but doubtfull.
    Beans planted here as late as July 14 have yielded as high as 20bu, but even at that - it takes a long season before frost, but there is always a chance....

    More likely is that the beans are being used as a cover crop this year.
    I hear that it is one of the "cover crops" approved to use and still get "no-plant" insurance payments for corn ground. (if planted after July 15?)
    They may be able to harvest the crop after a certain date as well for forage.
    Not sure if harvest as a grain product is allowed or not.
    The rules have all changed for this apocalyptic type year.

    I just got back from a quick trip to Colorado, and all down the I80 corridor, all looks planted, lush and green, some corn is tasseled, and some not quite yet.
    Most beans are at canopy stage now.
    All looks really healthy - as long as you don't take into account that the days started getting shorter 6 weeks ago.
    I think that I will get my LP tanks filled early as there will be a LOT of LP used in drying this year! (whatever yield it may produce)


    On other news, my shop has now turned 30 yrs old now and is debt free, but still looking for new facilities.
    May need to wait for the next downturn for some roof to open up around here....



    As for "New Arn" posts:


    I think that I may have skipped a couple that are not here anymore....
    Or maybe I did mention them WAY back?

    The first would be a pre-war #3 Warner and Swasey.
    The only diff that I found from the pre-war and post war is the spindle mount.
    Mine had a colleted spindle as many (likely all) have, but I had a large OD thread on it (not an "L") where the later models have a "A" type chuck mount.
    I'm afraid that I lost this machine to rust while in cold storage.
    I have replaced it with a newer unit, but since I still don't have room (or actual need) for it, it is in a different cold storage building. (This time closed up well and insulated)

    The other is a 2G (?) Brown and Sharpe single spindle cam type screw machine.
    While most of the older crew here will remember these as they were everywhere, the younger crowd may have only heard of them in passing as (IM/HO) they have not been competitive on anything other than chamfer and cut-off jobs since the early 90's. And while there are still a few Ram Slides and #2's around yet, seldom doo you see them running.

    I sold mine prolly around 2000 or so.
    Between my multi-spindles and a single spindle CNC lathe, it just din't have a place to fit in anymore.
    Now mark that down, as that may be the only machine that I have sold as anything other than scrap thus far?

    The last new machines posted here was 2008 - and was my Hardinge VMC's.

    The next purchase that I can think of was the 3 ATS CNC transfer machines that I bought during the crash with nothing but my good looks down.
    I had a good job on the line for one of them when I commited to them, but the customer found out that they did NOT need to take that job to get the rest of the package, and so they opted out. Sucks to be me, but much better for them.

    Arrival Day posted here.

    Also had another job almost in the bag a cpl years later for a volume of parts that would have been headed blanks that needed altered.
    They were small pins that only needed a slight cut taken on them at 1,000,000+ / month.
    They would have been vibe bowl fed and ran on 3 spindles at once, while unload/feed on the other 3 positions at the same time. (6 spindle CNC chuckers)
    I quoted $.035 (?) each, and in a meeting with the customer about the job, I was asked "What drives the cost up?"
    You can just about imagine how bad I wanted to lurch accrost the table and choke the fella, but I replied something along the lines of "even such a small value multiplied by that volume adds up in a short time."

    I was proud that I kept my calm and dignity....

    Although they kept being told that their part could not be headed quite to print, they did finally find one outfit that said that they could doo it to print, and so they didn't need us to mod them. I have often wondered how the job ended up? Was the needle in a haystack header able to produce close enough? And what volume did they actually ever sell? I think that they may have asked for 2 mil a month? I was highly skeptic that _ that volume could be sold at a long enough duration to justify the costs and work to get to that volume, but ???

    We have removed the automated feeder from one unit, and had to almost completely reprogram the control to be used as a non-dedicated machine.
    It was a big deal!
    We have moved the opperator position from "remote" to the load position.
    Actually we didn't "move" it as the original is still there, but we added a second opp position I guess. ???
    Had a big sheet of steel broken up to match the contour of the load position.

    The machine(s) currently have 1" collet capacity in some front actuating closers. There is limited room in the center of the tombstone for (6) draw tube type actuators, however - I have designed and started building such units. They are mostly done, but waiting to make the top of the to-doo list for completion. The spindles have A2-5 noses, and I have Hardinge 65mm Flex-C units setting beside the machine - all ready to go.

    The other 2 machines are in storage yet.

    We have not ran production on this (these) yet as we have not landed the right job yet, but in all honesty, I have not been looking for one. If one finds me - SUPER! But otherwise, I am waiting to get more suitable building before soliciting too much.








    ---------------------------

    Think Snow Eh!
    Ox

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    Ox
    thata a cool ass machine, I have read about them back in the early 90's but never seen one(on the inside).
    would you mind posting a few pics of the spindles,tools etc etc. when you have the time.
    I like to see how machines work. these machines always fascinated me when I saw one in a machinist magazine, forgot all about them till you posted the other day.
    thanks

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    What are these machines? An oversize dial table?

    Tom

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    Not sure what I have as a descript in the link to the earlier section of this thread, but:


    These are a fab'd base with a big Peiseler roller/worm actuated / no-lift Hirth type coupling rotary table as a main center piece.
    Then a big cast iron tombstone on top with 6 sides.
    Each side has a port for a large cartridge style spindle.

    As pictured, I currently have the spindles out of this one while looking to upgrade the actuation and capacity.
    I could pop a set of stock spindles back in it quick to run 1" capacity, but with my proposed upgrade - I should be able to run anything that will bolt to an A5 nose.

    The pic below is looking in the door at 9:00 from the opperator station.

    So - assuming that 6:00 is Position 6:

    1) 2 axis gang tool
    2) 2 axis gang tool
    3) 2 axis gang tool
    4) Currently set up as a flip position
    5) 2 axis gang tool
    6 Unload/load

    Of course they can be modified as needed for whatever part they are needed to run.
    We could edit the unload/load position to be a barfeeder - like a Hydromat. Or maybe a magazine load like was on it originally...

    We have added C axis to this machine. The control was capable of it (Indramat - now owned by Rexroth) but was not enabled - as it was not needed on the previous job.
    While C axis on one spindle is not a big deal, handing it off to another position and continuing IS a big deal as this machine has uncoupled spindle motors.
    The motors retract before index, and then re-couple.
    So we have added a HOME C macro and plan to put a magnet in the belt pulley on the back of the spindle.
    The biggest hurdle on this was the never ending circle that the table makes. We were able to find - with help on this site back at the time (Likely from Tony) some wireless signal repeaters - as best I can describe.
    What these are is a base unit at each station of the machine, and a mobile station on each station of the table. The base unit is actually able to power the mobile unit to opperate a prox switch for HOMEing with up to an 8mm (?) gap.

    We have tested, and it seemed to work fine. One catch is that I have not tested to see how close we can get C axis to repeat from station to station, but our belt pulley is prox 7" in D, so it should repeat pretty decent. (?) It would always be the same magnet/pulley and prox switch, but it still lacks the "HOME" pulse of the servo motor that a connected system would have.
    So I don't expect it to be perfect, but hopefully close enough for any work that we may need to split up - if we needed to split it up... or maybe if we needed to run shaped blanks possibly? Or ???

    We may never land a job for it that needs that, but if we doo, we have already done the leg work on it.

    With that said - we are posed to be able to replace the flip station, or maybe one of the 2x gangs for a 3x mill station - should the app require/justify.

    So - this is like a 6 position Kingsbury, except the part is live.






    Looking towards 9:00 from the 6:00 load position so you can see the slides a bit better.






    --------------------------------

    Think Snow Eh!
    Ox

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ox View Post

    So - this is like a 6 position Kingsbury

    Ox
    Presumeably you mean a Geo Kingsbury machine from the UK.

    I worked there for 6 months at Quay Lane in the early 80's as a student, interesting place to work.

    They were completing a line that machined cylinder heads for Ford when I was there, casting in, completely finished part out, impressive machine.

    While I was there I worked on a machine for machining Lister Diesel heads, which had repeatability problems which hadn't been solved when I left.

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    Starting to come back. I think there was a Kingsbury at GE but most of the ones I am familiar with were dedicated dial tables with fixtures on the center and machines on the rim. Often referred to as second op machines.

    Tom

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    "Kingsbury" is from Keene NH.
    It is an old company, and we have, or have had units here with patent dates on them dating back easilly into the 19teens.
    Now out of business. (just a few years ago)

    If you look at the link in the above post that takes you back to the "arrival date", and then scroll up a few posts, you will see where we had shipped a medium sized center column model Kingsbury out.

    As posted back about 4 or 5 yrs ago, here is one of our Kingsbury machines running a second opp job where we ran 300,000 parts in about 3 months time for an automotive recall part. I now kind'a regret not puting that job on this machine here, but ....

    http://vid187.photobucket.com/albums/x105/mpminc/Shop/DSCN0968_zpsfdlmj3ji.mp4


    We have one other Kingsbury yet that is tooled for one (now dead) job that second opps a fitting where it core drills and form taps 1/4-28 @ 900 pcs / hour.
    Just about as fast as you can load them!

    But again - the Kingsbury is a dead part/live tool machine.
    The ATS Automation machines are live spindle (lathe) machines.

    Up to the time that I bought these, I had never seen such a machine.
    I have since seen one similar Euro machine with 12 or 16 stations for sale used.
    They were smaller spindles tho.
    I thought that maybe I could find some info squirelled away on it, but not found anything yet.


    These machines are built by ATS Automation in Cambridge, Ontario.
    The models are "Turn 6", but they don't list "for sale" machines there anymore.
    They are too busy running production themselves to bother building machines for others anymore.
    I imagine they still doo to some degree, but I don't think the solicit it currently?


    ----------------------------

    Think Snow Eh!
    Ox
    Last edited by Ox; 08-06-2019 at 11:42 AM. Reason: (Just a few years ago)

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    So of the machines one might see at IMTS of late (well last time I was there) a hydromat would be the "most similar" ???

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    Yeah, I guess ....


    -------------------

    Think Snow Eh!
    Ox

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    Ox
    thanks for the pics, thats pretty cool.

    do you have the barfeed option or have you considered making one. If I recall it feeds into one station with a cut off tool cutting it off to length. I think there was an option for coils as well.(but might hve my machines wrong.)
    when you get more things done to it I would like to see pics of it if you dont mind.


    Thanks again

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    Del, you must be thinking of the Hydromat, as I doubt that hardly anyone here has ever seen these machines, and I doubt that there were ever many built.
    But - as I outlined previously - we could add any "options" that we want - ourselves. You're not going to call up the factory and ask for an edit to these I don't think.

    ???


    Anyhow ....

    I just had a nother go at [what I think is] "fixing" a machine, as opposed to repairing it, but time will tell on that....


    So a yr and half ago the lower turret on my Hardinge Twin Turn 65 got so's it didn't really care to index anymore. It was tied up, and I had to use a [very] long cheater to git it into position in the end. Now the lower turret is "extra" normally, and I hadn't been running any real fancy parts that required the extra tool positions in a while. The machine needs to see the turret index to find "HOME" of the turret when you fire up the machine, but ... as any dumb farmer would doo, I found a way to cheat the system [that was easier than the actual repair].

    So I had 12 toys in turret 1 and one good position in T2.
    Okay.....
    I'll fix it when I git time....

    Well, this summer got slow on paying work, and it's time for maint projects, AND my cheat came to a halt at the same time.
    For my cheat to work, the index motor - that also runs the live tools - has got to turn, but now my live tool shaft quit wanting to turn too! (remember this for later)
    So - the time has come, and fortunately time actually allows.....

    So I tore it apart.
    I have had it apart before, and I replaced the live tool power shaft and updated what was originally open style needle bearings, to a caged version - doo to the fact that the bores of the mating part were too bad for new needles.
    So I knew what to expect for those, but I wasn't 100% sure what to expect for the reason that the turret quit turning, but it felt like a big set of needles there too as it was failing, so ....

    So here's a pic of the big needles, and of course the smaller set for the live tool shaft was the same.





    In the process of removing the smaller caged bearings, I didn't doo the bores any more favors.
    The shaft didn't look all that good either.....

    So I opted to go with bronze bushings there this time. At least those won't rust up and whatnot.
    But with full disclosure, there is a chance that at full speed (I have 8K rpm live toys) I could end up with chatter in my shaft, but the other hand is that I don't run the live toys on this turret nearly that fast - like I doo on the other turret. (The other turret has a Y) As well, I figger that even if I did want to run fast down the road, that if it was getting bad again - it wouldn't be nearly as well of shape as it would with a sloppy bronze bushing in stead. And yet one more for the case for the bronze is that the needles don't have but 1/2 the surface area as the bronze, does, and this allows me to actually start life on good surface on the shaft that was not used on the needles. As this may wear, the slightly smaller (worn) surface will start to bear some of the load again too.... So, the pro's won out for the case of the bushings.

    But not only for the live toys, but also for the turret! Of course the surfaces that contacted the big set of needles wasn't what they once were anymore either, and it's not like the turret spins THAT fast! So I opted to go to bronze on those as well.

    BUT - more the concern is - "How can I lube these?"
    As built - they are "lubed for life". And in all fairness, the machine is now 20 yrs old, and I replaced the live tool shaft once a'ready, so - that's not really bad by any means (and I have no clue what any other MTB's status on this would be to compare to) but I wanted to make it more better....

    But how to git grease in there?

    Well, I figgered it out....

    I bored a hole in the turret post (IDK the actual name) right down the C/L, and drilled a hole in the main casting to line up with it.
    Then I cross drilled a hole from the outside, through the live tool shaft and into the C/L grease hole.
    I ran a 5/32 air line with quick couples out to the surface under the lower turret sheet metal, and now I can grease through the back end of the casting, up through the live toys, and then into the turret index bush cavity. 2 birds, one zerk!










    BUT - the story doesn't end there!

    So I git's it back together enough to try it out Sat night.
    All looked promissing!
    (No noted oil leaks, and the turret HOMED)

    So then I git's it all back together, all the way covers (1 new one) and sheet metal all back together on Monday night... and start running parts aggin.
    Ran all day Tuesday. Was uploading pics to make this post, and ... it died....
    The turret just decided not to index....
    So I spent the next few hours checking prox's, trying to diagnose the ladder enough to figger out the trouble, but the ladder has a LOT of real estate assosiated to turret indexing, so I was over my head on that...
    Today a tech stopped in to see if he could figger it out - as I was sure that it must be something simple as everything was free. The turret was "up". The air clutch was energized. And I was able to check to make sure that the control did actually see the "turret seated" prox. So ... ???

    In the end, we decided to swap amps with turret 1 and see what we git.

    Well, wouldn't'cha know it - Turret 2 works!
    Turret 1 ... not so much anymore.....

    We decided that when the small bearings tied up at the end, that the motor was trying to spin, but couldn't overpower the shot needles (which I confirmed before I tore it down as the trq load was 100% on the meter) and being in a "stall" condition for a while earlier must have done some damage, yet it still ran out a day's production before actually giving up the ghost.

    So now I have a clean used one owner amp coming in - in a few days.
    I got enough parts off that I can wait a few extra days...
    I really would have rather got a rebuilt from TIE, but for whatever reason, spindle drives are 2wiced as $ as a 2 channel servo amp.
    I don't git it, but ... ???
    And this is considered a "spindle amp".


    -----------------

    Think Snow Eh!
    Ox

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