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  1. #61
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    I always put them on the machine after the main switch. Transformers are a load. No sense in paying for that when you don't need it.

  2. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ox View Post
    Your buck/boost is single phase?



    --------------------

    Think Snow Eh!
    Ox
    Yeah for before the PP.

  3. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by Garwood View Post
    What's up with the hot/dirty weld there?
    I always weld aluminum hot and fast - I rarely stack dimes, always more flattened. Makes a good weld but won't win beauty contests. The smut you see there is some crap that floated up out of the weld el. The rest of it welded fine so my guess is I got something on there with my hands during fitup in that area.

  4. #64
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    So... I'm buying a company. It is getting me in-house products that are about 60% cash, 40% NET30 distributorship, and all easy-peasy aluminum plate with holes in it. Along with it comes a machine (and all the tooling and fixturing) which is only a few years old, all the programs and designs, all the customers, vendors, website, etc. The guy is crazy squared away - setup sheets, organization, immaculate shop, financials, all that.

    I may be structuring it as an entity purchase which would also get me the company's cash flow and credit history for machine or real estate purchases. We'll see - the biggest concern is potential sales tax liability due to the retail nature of it but I'm having the books reviewed to cover my ass.

    The machine is a brand I don't care much for, but they are quite capable job shop machines.

    The business should pay for itself in 4-6 months, and the sky is the limit on where I go with it because he did no marketing whatsoever, and he has a very solid place in the market to expand the product line.

    I'm also strongly considering a small work envelope 5-axis machine for another project sitting on my desk right now - if that gets structured as annual blanket POs with releases then I will be in a good place to commit to it.

    I'm going to be leasing or buying a shop space as well. I've been having trouble with the whole "not going to work" thing and it would be a huge help to just have a place I tell myself I need to be at 0600 every morning. I have one place I'm going to try to work out a lease equity deal, but I don't want to be a landlord just yet. I'm hoping to get into another place tomorrow to look at it. If it is a better fit I'll go there, even if it means knowing I'll have to move in a year or two.

    I wish I could share more about this stuff but most of my customers have me operating under NDAs! One project I'm meeting tomorrow to hand over the final programs to the customer - going to be cutting Zirconium! Neat!

    Oh, and my Sharp's monitor still doesn't work. I haven't made a chip on it in two months I think? Not for lack of trying or spending, either.

  5. #65
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    Geez, you must have a hell of a lot better cash flow than me!







    Congrats!

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  7. #66
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    Ha! No I'm *buying* cash flow because I currently have none.

    This is a case of being in the right place at the right time, and maybe giving the right guy the right price on a bridgeport at one time... add in some seller self-financing and a HELOC that is just sitting there doing nothing, and...

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  9. #67
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    Wait... What...??? Wasn't it just three, four months back that you ... ... Wait.. wasn't this about starting a shop and then a monitor on the fritz... ?? So, in the amount of time that... Oh, I give up...

    < shaking head while walking away >

    Oh, yeah... Congratulations! ( ... I think ... )

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  11. #68
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    Well, I've been doing on-site programming in the meantime, but the amount of travel is not something I'm liking very much (especially since it is 45 minutes each way to the Falls/Germantown area where all the shops are). Turns out that a lot of shops will pay top dollar to have someone come in, program a part, train some guys, and do some phone support. Anyone with the wherewithal to try that out as a business; no one even batted an eye at $50/hr travel, $80/hr on-site, and $45/hr off-site (modeling, programming, and phone support). I know some guys charging more like $125-150/hr onsite which is on par with what the independent machine tool repair guys charge around here.

    I'll probably keep doing it on a limited basis for a few customers now that I'm to the point with them that I can just email them a program and they can go from there.

    Again, "buying a business" doesn't have to be very expensive. In this case the payback is in MONTHS for the business itself. If you consider the machine as well, then it pays off in a year. I was already shopping for a more capable machine (even when my monitor is up and running I'm selling that machine - it just chokes on 3D surfacing code and I've got parts with a lot of it coming up).

    Were one to value this business based on normal criteria I would be paying about 10%.

    No guarantees but I think this is going to be a very good fit. I always wanted to be a self-supplier for a product instead of a job shop.

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  13. #69
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    How did you handle insurance? I have hinted at doing programming/training/etc but the first question is always insurance.

    I assume these are small shops? I know most of the shops around me are bigger and would never let an outside vendor come in, again, mostly to insurance.

    Best of luck with your business venture, I'm part teasing, part jealous. I think you'll find being a self supplier has its merits, and its enormous migraines. I'm in the middle of another product adventure... I'm waist deep at around $10k.... too deep to back out, deep enough now I have to slug my way through it to finish it. Jealous, because I have products that won't payback for years, let alone months.

    I guess I can't complain too much, this year I had an older gentleman who I made some parts for. He like the work I did well enough that he asked me to take over all of his part families and sell them for myself. That business CERTAINLY won't pay for itself in months...

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  15. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rick Finsta View Post
    I always wanted to be a self-supplier for a product instead of a job shop.
    Congrats! Sounds like a great opportunity.

    And, I agree, self supplier for product line sound fantastic.
    Then I think about sales/marketing and customer support. I'm out!

    Sole supplier for somebody else's product line? I'm in! LOL

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  17. #71
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    Insurance is a sticky one. So far it is only a few small shops and to be honest, this is another reason why I'd like to stop doing the contracting where I am actually performing on-site work. A liability waiver is not really worth anything here in WI except for "feel good" value (i.e. it isn't going to be useful in court) if I break something or hurt someone. That said, I do have protection through my legal entity but it sure would suck to have to rebrand because someone I'm training crashes a machine or something.

    It also brings up another thing - if an employer asks me to work on equipment with safeties removed or disabled, I tell them to get fucked. Now I'm my own employer. One of the machines I've worked on has the door safety lock hanging outside the machine with the key stuck in it. Guys shit on those door safeties but three or four times I've had to remind a trainee to NEVER RUN A TOOLCHANGE WITH THE DOOR OPEN. I can't imaging the carnage if one of these guys has his arm or head in a Robodrill when that turret starts moving.

    Some shops around here are barely able to get guys that will show up for work reliably and on time, much less have the wherewithal to not get themselves hurt loading and operating equipment they've never seen before.

    I already have a support structure for the marketing side of things; the financials is where I go all glossy-eyed and tune out.

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  19. #72
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    Sounds like I'm reading from own playbook here... Get some big plans going and jump in with both feet just in time to stumble across a ridiculous opportunity that's too good to be true. Do a 180 and run with it...

    My advice is go a bit slow into things and treat cash like gold.

    Products can be awesome and they can also break you real quick. Eggs in one basket deal, be careful. Customer service can be a real son of a bitch motherfucker.

    I program for friends/other shops. I request payment in fancy lunches, beers, big favors and running my parts when I get behind. Works fine for me.

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    Well I can't say a while lot about it but looks like I am closing on the business this month. Still working on lease/purchase of a shop space.

    Also, my machine is finally making parts again as of this morning. Knocked out a few orders.

    Feels good to make chips again.

    Speaking of which, I gotta find a place to get rid of all these chips. LOL

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  22. #74
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    Plastic and steel we just throw away Protohawk Machine

    Sent from my Pixel 3 using Tapatalk

  23. #75
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    Well I have a few 55gal drums of 6061 right now LOL.

  24. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rick Finsta View Post
    Well I have a few 55gal drums of 6061 right now LOL.
    Should be easy to find someone to pickup.

    Our scrap place drops off large roll off containers and picks them up once a month.

    Sent from my Pixel 3 using Tapatalk

  25. #77
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rick Finsta View Post
    Well I have a few 55gal drums of 6061 right now LOL.
    Don't be surprised when you learn they are worth south of 20 cents/lb.
    Aluminum is real close to being dumpster bound just like plastic/steel. Not worth the hassle.

    Congrats on the business! I hope you find a nice space to park it!

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  27. #78
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    Did a bunch of test cuts today and taught a "class" to my buddy and his son. Feels great to hear that bitch really growl again.



    Ran a bunch of straightline cuts at different Ae and S&F, then took the best and tested them against a spline contour. Had my buddy running the machine, changing offsets, and loading programs by the end of the day. Had to say "Because FANUC" alot. LOL

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  29. #79
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rick Finsta View Post
    Had to say "Because FANUC" alot. LOL
    Taught a friend who is very computer and control savvy some basics about CNC machining. This guy creates the ladders for several hundred thousand dollar machines. He knows computers and programming far better than I could ever dream. He’d never touched a CNC mill or lathe before.

    Anyway... taught him some basics. To summary his basic response:

    “Y’all are fucked up”

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  31. #80
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    “Y’all are fucked up”
    I always thought it was just "stuck doing things we did them on PCs in 1988", but the quoted line is probably better...


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