Gauging Gauging Competency
Close
Login to Your Account
Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 20 of 21
  1. #1
    Join Date
    Apr 2019
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    Michigan
    Posts
    16
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    10
    Likes (Received)
    1

    Default Gauging Gauging Competency

    Hi everyone,

    Does/has anyone used a sort of "gauging competency" test or assessment for new hires? Do you have new hires perform specific tests? We could ask "Do you know how to use calipers/micrometers/etc?" but how do we know if they really are using it properly?

    What are your practices for determining the skill level of new hires (both machinists and inspection personnel)?

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Location
    California
    Posts
    1,656
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    1008
    Likes (Received)
    1887

    Default

    One way is to have them do it. Have them measure a handful of parts using calipers, mikes, and gage pins and see how they do.

    The value of such a test is debatable. Possibly more important if you have a hands-off approach to new hires and want them to hit the ground running, but it's all stuff that's easily and quickly learned through proper training.

    Personality and general "life competency" are more important traits, IMHO.

  3. Likes BugRobotics, Eric M liked this post
  4. #3
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    Michigan
    Posts
    14,250
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    4857
    Likes (Received)
    5137

    Default

    If a toolmaker or the like cant read a micrometer likely he/she should start waxing the office floor, scraping out the Blanchard's, and cleaning the Jon.

    That is what I did after 4 years of a trade school.
    And I could turn threads and run tenths on the grinder then.

    And before a year I was running few-up specials.

  5. Likes ballen liked this post
  6. #4
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    Flushing/Flint, Michigan
    Posts
    10,918
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    645
    Likes (Received)
    8760

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Orange Vise View Post
    ....
    The value of such a test is debatable. .
    Big agreement here.
    Many have been brought up now on digital. Even some "old-timers" can not read a vernier.
    I did this at one time hiring in the 80s. It was a worthless test of skills and those who did best turned out to be the not good employees.
    Worse yet was those who could pass had no understanding of measuring uncertainly.
    The old mic it again and again until it passes.
    Run them through a gauge R&R and they claim the results must be wrong because "I know how to do this and have been for xx years, that stupid computer program is wrong".

    Any decent shop should be able to teach this measuring stuff on your gauging equipment with little time or work involved.
    All should go through and participate in R&R on some sort of regular basis.
    Bob

  7. #5
    Join Date
    Sep 2021
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    Ohio
    Posts
    153
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    55
    Likes (Received)
    37

    Default

    Running into inspectors who can't decipher a blueprint is a recent problem. Fancy titles don't equate to competency....yikes. With that being said, with the right teacher anything is possible.

  8. #6
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Location
    Victoria, Texas, USA
    Posts
    4,844
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    3534
    Likes (Received)
    1380

    Default

    What used to be ASQC now ASQ, used to have basic tests a employer could use for screening applicants. A lot has changed in last 30 years. We used to write our own test on things like how to measure a line between two points using a ruler or scale, to the nearest 1/16" of an inch. You would be surprise of the answers you would get. Likewise, showing a micrometer measurement and asking, what do you read this at? Just real basic stuff. Sadly, lot of applicants did not come close to our needs back then. And we did train applicants that had a halfway decent attitude for learning. Most of those became good inspectors over time.

  9. #7
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Location
    Victoria, Texas, USA
    Posts
    4,844
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    3534
    Likes (Received)
    1380

    Default

    Blueprint reading?

    What happen to the days of using the French and Stevens book on drafting? All this new crap that I don't have a clue what it stands for, like on a drilled and tapped hole on a drawing. WTF? I have to get my drafter to explain to me what he put on the drawing in place of my old school note.

    Sorry, I got off on a tangent.

  10. #8
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Location
    Stillwater, Oklahoma
    Posts
    1,898
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    152
    Likes (Received)
    1126

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by 4GSR View Post
    Sorry, I got off on a tangent.
    Umm, are you saying you find trigonometry really exciting? Working out sines usually does it for me.

  11. Likes 4GSR liked this post
  12. #9
    Join Date
    Nov 2015
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    California
    Posts
    617
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    0
    Likes (Received)
    273

    Default

    Place I used to work:
    Hand them a box of 10 mixed up fasteners of a few sizes and thread pitches, have them sort.
    Gauge pin in an incorrectly labeled box and a improperly zeroes digital micrometer, ask the value.
    Vernier mic. pre-set on a size likely to trick someone up and ask the reading.
    A drawing with some fallouts we commonly use and ask what they mean/how to measure without a CMM.

    The fasteners itís just attention to detail.
    The mic itís to see how the handle it. Some people clean it, check zero and with the standard, then measure the part a couple places. Others fumble around, never zero it. Some detect the gauge pin is the wrong size and others will re-measure until the get the size on the label. Those are the ones I donít want.

    I donít actually care if anyone can read a vernier, but I do care how the handle the question. If they say up front they donít know how and give me a fair try it doesnít matter what they get. If they insist they do know and get it wrong thatís a fail. Same if they refuse to even try. If they read it correctly faster than I can a digital clock I dive into harder questions just a bit faster.

  13. Likes 4GSR liked this post
  14. #10
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Location
    Posts
    2,160
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    466
    Likes (Received)
    455

    Default

    I employed a young lad straight out of school,Jeremiah John,to cut and mill blanks for carbide form tools. I asked him to cut one ten foot bar of 3/8" square 4" long.
    What is 3/8" I was asked. Oh bugger it is Jeremiah I have taken on. So I tried explaining. How many eighth's in one I asked. Dunno he replied. OK, so here goes. Can you divide 1 by 8? No I can't. OK the answer is 1/8, does that make sense? No. OK so will you take my word for it? Yes.
    OK so how many 1/16s in 1? Dunno. I left it at that and just have him the bar and told him 4" long. He didn't have the common sense to tell me he had finished. He didn't last long.

  15. #11
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    Michigan
    Posts
    14,250
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    4857
    Likes (Received)
    5137

    Default

    and they/some want to eliminate small-cap letters because many don't know small caps anymore.
    seems like numbers past 10 should also be eliminated..as just too confusing.

    and a Hot-Cold beeper app for one's phone might be good to get home if people should walk around the block and get lost.

  16. #12
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    Flushing/Flint, Michigan
    Posts
    10,918
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    645
    Likes (Received)
    8760

    Default

    Had the same problem as above with fractions let alone thous and tenths.
    It all seems so easy since we have done it for what seems like forever.
    Seems like the person not "getting it" such an idiot.
    Maybe we forget our first days or how we learned what we know now.
    Testing for specific tech knowledge will not get you good employees. In fact probably the worst thing to do.
    Bob

  17. #13
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    Michigan
    Posts
    14,250
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    4857
    Likes (Received)
    5137

    Default

    My grandson who passed the college entrance test high enough to apply to Harvard does not have an all-around understanding of percentage.

    No, he did not apply to Harvard because he could not afford that.

  18. #14
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    Flushing/Flint, Michigan
    Posts
    10,918
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    645
    Likes (Received)
    8760

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by michiganbuck View Post
    My grandson who passed the college entrance test high enough to apply to Harvard does not have an all-around understanding of percentage.
    How smart one is or how much common sense one has depends on where you are standing.
    How often do we make that call based on our current footing?
    Once looked at just going out and getting a normal machinist's job.
    So much full of xx time on a xyz control this machine or other. I did not have that, it was very depressing.
    Makes one feel that you do not know anything that others are willing to hire now.
    Bob

  19. #15
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    Pennsylvania
    Posts
    22,565
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by camscan View Post
    I employed a young lad straight out of school,Jeremiah John,to cut and mill blanks for carbide form tools. I asked him to cut one ten foot bar of 3/8" square 4" long.
    What is 3/8" I was asked. Oh bugger it is Jeremiah I have taken on. So I tried explaining. How many eighth's in one I asked. Dunno he replied. OK, so here goes. Can you divide 1 by 8? No I can't. OK the answer is 1/8, does that make sense? No. OK so will you take my word for it? Yes.
    OK so how many 1/16s in 1? Dunno. I left it at that and just have him the bar and told him 4" long. He didn't have the common sense to tell me he had finished. He didn't last long.
    I remember a machinist in the apprentice program that couldn't doo it either, and he was a 4 year degreed Mechanical engineer....from Tehran.

  20. #16
    Join Date
    Jul 2015
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    Michigan
    Posts
    86
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    112
    Likes (Received)
    39

    Default

    Yes, we have a "skills and knowledge" test for Floor Inspectors. I wrote it because our interviewing / hiring process is nothing but word of mouth and fuzzy logic. And that's OK, as far as that goes, because interviewing revolves around talking to someone (assuming the right questions are being asked) and evaluating their fit for the job (assuming the person doing the interviewing has the judgment and perspective to do so accurately).

    The practical thing is to measure someone's actual experience & capability against what's being claimed as well as measuring the Company's ability to communicate job requirements clearly. This has nothing to do with anyone being deceptive. If "The Company" fails to accurately assess an applicant's capabilities we've not done our jobs as "The Company". We disservice the Applicant, we disservice the existing workforce, we potentially cause unnecessary problems for all and by extension our customers.

    Our Quality Inspector Basic Skills Test is covers the following:

    1) Put the Applicant at ease by providing context and reasoning for taking the test as part of the Interview.

    "• Relax, answer questions honestly, then turn in the test and continue with the rest of the Interview.
    • Test results will be reviewed afterwards simply as a gage of skills demonstrated, to understand where, if any, on-the-job training might need to be focused.
    • This test is not intended as an arbitrary pass/fail measure for hiring."


    2) The test identifies, in objective fashion, what experience/skills are possessed by the Applicant so that we can set expectations on ourselves, The Company, for the correct on-the-job Training required should we feel the Applicant is a match for hiring in all other respects.

    3) We reasonably "protect" the existing workforce from unreasonable burden, skewed expectations, disruption, etc.

    Most of the test questions use either photographs of tools, JPG snippets from Blueprints, or a sample list of GT$T symbols they must identify.

    I'm less interested in an "advanced" skill that someone might reasonably grow into later if it's an "offline" skill, and am more immediately interested in skills that come into play instantly when an Inspector walks up to a Machinist to perform an Inspection. That's a work-relationship / interface dynamic that should be positive and clean, not negative and annoying (for all concerned). Machinists are making product that gets us paid, the Inspector is having to run around between multiple positions. Everyone needs to interface cleanly with no disruptions.

    Examples out of the test include identifying tools from photos, GD&T symbol identification, sample blueprint feature/dim identification, basic math, using indicating mics and what are the correct offsets if your calibration standard is say +.0002 of target, non-conformance procedures, and making decisions on what tools should be used versus the required tolerances (e.g. .+/- .005 vs +/- .0002).

    The Test contains 25 questions. I felt that more was too much, a little less might have been OK, but 25 was fine based on the mix of questions, technical vs procedures.

    It gives us the information about the applicant we need to calibrate our own understanding of their capabilities, and where any on the job training may be needed. Intent and planning with people, instead of find out and trip over.

  21. Likes Eric M liked this post
  22. #17
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    Michigan
    Posts
    14,250
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    4857
    Likes (Received)
    5137

    Default

    If you're going to give a skilled job it is good to at least knows the person knows the basic terminology/words associated with the task.

    Re: Be sure to check the helix angle because that customer is fussy about that.
    Q: what is that?

  23. Likes ttrager liked this post
  24. #18
    Join Date
    Sep 2021
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    Ohio
    Posts
    153
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    55
    Likes (Received)
    37

    Default

    When we first started, we were in with another company. One of the co-owners was an old German. The phrase that sticks with me (dub in German accent) "It's not a goddamn C-clamp". He was referring to mic-ing parts.

  25. Likes ttrager liked this post
  26. #19
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    Michigan
    Posts
    14,250
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    4857
    Likes (Received)
    5137

    Default

    OT:.. Yes I don't want to hack the thread with a new topic so don't reply to my/this rant.

    Kids don't listen ...I have told every new kid we hire...

    "When you are ready to leave the Slayer deer blind company get a letter from Rob(the owner). He is a respected guy and having a letter of recommendation will go far to secure the next higher job. If he has no time just make it yourself saying Jo Blow has worked form from xx to xx and has been a good and reliable worker.

    If you ask for a letter and can't get one then ask why..you may find you have traits that make you a poor worker..ones that need correction on your part.

    Just saying every little thing helps going up the ladder//if one deserves going up.
    Last edited by michiganbuck; 10-04-2021 at 01:53 PM.

  27. #20
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    Flushing/Flint, Michigan
    Posts
    10,918
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    645
    Likes (Received)
    8760

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Mark P. View Post
    When we first started, we were in with another company. One of the co-owners was an old German. The phrase that sticks with me (dub in German accent) "It's not a goddamn C-clamp". He was referring to mic-ing parts.
    Friend and machine repairman.
    Would use old mics as c-clamps just to make his boss who did not understand go crazy nuts.
    Given the leverage ratio they make good clamps.
    Bob


Tags for this Thread

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •