How do you handle Inspection Reporting with your clients?
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    Default How do you handle Inspection Reporting with your clients?

    That the inspection reporting needs to be done is a given. What I'm sonar-pinging you folks here for is the format / medium / method if we assume each client has their own Inspection Report format.

    Which do you do (or add what I've not thought of):

    1) Use the native reports provided by each client, even if it means passing around hard copy for pen recording followed by a typist moving those entries to the electronic version for submission back to the client.

    2) Use your internally developed (or purchased) Inspection Reporting application where you copy/paste selected blocks of measurements to the Client spreadsheet prior to submission to the client.

    3) Use your Inspection Reporting application to run the inspection for the job, then produce a data-export sent to the client where they import that to their inspection report.

    I'm looking over the approach we use for filling out and submitting client inspection reports. The core requirement of course is satisfy the customer requirements. But I'd like to examine how some other places are juggling the data collection, recording, and submission of Inspection Reports to their clients, in an environment where every client has a different format.

    Eventually I'd like to use this information for internal evaluation purposes as well. For instance, running a report and/or charting in/out of tolerance conditions for a year by customer to see where we might have trends one way or another. This, however, suggests a centralized "system" for recording and collection of this data, etc.

    Thanks in advance. Feedback as to how you handle this will be appreciated.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ttrager View Post
    That the inspection reporting needs to be done is a given. What I'm sonar-pinging you folks here for is the format / medium / method if we assume each client has their own Inspection Report format.

    Which do you do (or add what I've not thought of):

    1) Use the native reports provided by each client, even if it means passing around hard copy for pen recording followed by a typist moving those entries to the electronic version for submission back to the client.

    2) Use your internally developed (or purchased) Inspection Reporting application where you copy/paste selected blocks of measurements to the Client spreadsheet prior to submission to the client.

    3) Use your Inspection Reporting application to run the inspection for the job, then produce a data-export sent to the client where they import that to their inspection report.

    I'm looking over the approach we use for filling out and submitting client inspection reports. The core requirement of course is satisfy the customer requirements. But I'd like to examine how some other places are juggling the data collection, recording, and submission of Inspection Reports to their clients, in an environment where every client has a different format.

    Eventually I'd like to use this information for internal evaluation purposes as well. For instance, running a report and/or charting in/out of tolerance conditions for a year by customer to see where we might have trends one way or another. This, however, suggests a centralized "system" for recording and collection of this data, etc.

    Thanks in advance. Feedback as to how you handle this will be appreciated.
    I'm confused by that. Your client/customer can surely dictate what information they need, and a desired format such as digital or paper copies. But I have a hard time envisioning 2-3-5 whatever "clients" saying we want the hole sizes first, then surface finish blah blah and another guy saying "No No we want the name of part first, then critical dimensions and the hole sizes on a different sheet blah blah"


    *Unless I misunderstood the post

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    The customer gets a scanned copy of our inspection reports from the floor. These are our own templates. The person making the parts fills out the dimensions as they feel works best for them. Our customers don't get a say in how the inspection sheets look. If they wan't, we will give them a copy of the print that we number up to match the dimensions on the inspection sheet for easier review.

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    Agree with these guys. I work in government oversight of defense contractors, we often review our contractors quality records and their subcontractors, we don't give them sheets to fill out, we just make sure their documentation meets the requirements.

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    It depended on the customer. Some required the more comprehensive AS9100-type format, others required simple measurement results. Occasionally, one would require the results on their form, but that was negotiated on a case-by-case basis.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Eric M View Post
    It depended on the customer. Some required the more comprehensive AS9100-type format, others required simple measurement results. Occasionally, one would require the results on their form, but that was negotiated on a case-by-case basis.
    This is pretty much were we are at. I appreciate the feedback. Historically our company has simply accepted each customers uniquely formatted inspection form, typically e-mailed, and we've ponied up to fill out those forms.

    Several of our cleints have different formats, and each one passes through the shop and/or Inspection Room in hard-copy filled out in pen and ink, then someone transcribes the pen and ink to the electronic version that was originally e-mailed to us, then that file is sent back to the client.

    This means we have no real managed method of producing Inspection Reports other than grinding pen and ink. And I'm looking to take steps towards something less paper-centric.

    I hope this clarifies things for the first respondent in the thread as well. If not, just let me know.

    The shortest version is I suppose: We have historically been paper-based for data collection during Inspection Reporting, "laboring" under the dynamic of using different formats for our clients, with only some that fall under our "generic" report for those clients who don't have their own format. Our big-ticket customers however DO have their own formats, and these are clearly revision/controlled documents.

    As I said earlier, I'm sonar pinging every one here as a means to clear my head and think things through. Options or ideas that might be feasible, or not feasible, etc.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike1974 View Post
    I'm confused by that. Your client/customer can surely dictate what information they need, and a desired format such as digital or paper copies. But I have a hard time envisioning 2-3-5 whatever "clients" saying we want the hole sizes first, then surface finish blah blah and another guy saying "No No we want the name of part first, then critical dimensions and the hole sizes on a different sheet blah blah"


    *Unless I misunderstood the post
    I was speaking literally, and globally: "Format" means everything about the inspection report, from the header information straight through to what data-points are layed out in what order.

    Client A will have a totally different looking report from Client B. Some of our clients don't have a specific format and those are captured in our internally produced "generic" format. But in all cases it's still a case of paper floating around for the collection, which is then typed into an electronic version.

    EDITED FOR CLARIFICATION: I think I understand where my sentences could be read other than intended. When I say "Clients who have different formats", I mean from each other (client to client), not different formats within a given client. On our end we man-handle a bunch of different Inspection Report Formats because each client has a different format from another.

    Having said all that, strategies I'm trying to evaluate basically center on the following idea: Setup a centralized, electronic Inspection Reporting system. That's what we use to manage and collect the data for each client's jobs, and then (potentially) simply export said data to a flat data file the client can import to their own spreadsheets however they want.

    I'm surely not the only one who has to deal with multiple clients needing inspection reporting on delivered jobs, and each client has a different looking report, so how do other's skin that cat?

    Does this answer your question?
    Last edited by ttrager; 11-01-2019 at 04:04 PM.

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    We do as post #3 except we have someone other than the person who makes the parts do the inspection. Too much chance of a transposed number from the person that made the initial measurement being repeated in the inspection process.

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    Quote Originally Posted by RJT View Post
    We do as post #3 except we have someone other than the person who makes the parts do the inspection. Too much chance of a transposed number from the person that made the initial measurement being repeated in the inspection process.
    Thank you.

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    Customers will often provide a boilerplate inspection report for those who have none.
    Often if you have your own with all the needed data they will accept it.
    You have to ask. If your system covers all asked for and more you may become the new "customer standard" form.
    Bob

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    Google as9102 inspection report.

    We use solidworks inspection and it works ok for what we do.

    AS9102 First Article Inspection Reports | InspectionXpert

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    Quote Originally Posted by as9100d View Post
    Google as9102 inspection report.

    We use solidworks inspection and it works ok for what we do.

    AS9102 First Article Inspection Reports | InspectionXpert
    Ok serious question -

    How many really do another FAI after changing a process or tooling? I know it can be (always?) required and it seems oh so silly to me, but I have worked in job shops non-aerospace medical most of my career.

    I understand internally you want to verify your new process / setup / tooling is still making a good part of course, but a completely new FAI...??

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike1974 View Post
    Ok serious question -

    How many really do another FAI after changing a process or tooling? I know it can be (always?) required and it seems oh so silly to me, but I have worked in job shops non-aerospace medical most of my career.

    I understand internally you want to verify your new process / setup / tooling is still making a good part of course, but a completely new FAI...??
    Probably none but there are two kinds of shops, those that want the rubber stamp ISO and those that expect the iso to work for them.

    That said, we have a first article and a Delta first article.

    Say we put a known good repeat part on a different machine, that's a Delta and doesn't need to go through the same form 1/2 fai.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike1974 View Post
    Ok serious question -

    How many really do another FAI after changing a process or tooling? I know it can be (always?) required and it seems oh so silly to me, but I have worked in job shops non-aerospace medical most of my career.

    I understand internally you want to verify your new process / setup / tooling is still making a good part of course, but a completely new FAI...??
    I can honestly say I do.
    didnt way back when, changed drills and some endmills. pretty slam dunk simple change. all brand new in box. unfortunately the endmill was a .020r instead of a .032r, then after I cussed myself out for a day and doing the rest of the parts I put in wrong size drills in the wrong holes( 2 holes .010 difference in size).
    scrapping an almost entire job sucks. it was more of an embarrassment than anything else as we just remade the job.
    so yeah I do a complete FAI, mold rads, chamfers even stupid shit that is wide open. also do them every XXX amount of parts depending on how many parts for a sample.

    On my citizen or miyano I usually do a FAI on every 8-10 parts as its running as you can scrap parts out fast by stupid mistakes.
    when we did mostly medical and job shop type stuff thats where most of our mistakes were for the simple reason we didnt do FAI after the inital one. they dont take long for most parts.
    if your running more than one machine its almost a must cause its easy to mix up numbers on parts that are the same part family.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ttrager View Post
    That the inspection reporting needs to be done is a given. What I'm sonar-pinging you folks here for is the format / medium / method if we assume each client has their own Inspection Report format.
    I'm changing the thread title slightly.

    Inspection reports to customers.

    When a customers requests an inspection report it's almost always because they believe certain dimensions and requirements are important to them.

    There are two typical situations.

    1. The company is supplying the customer with a product they normally manufacture. In cases like that the smart customer would try and find out what, if any, were the potential problems they could risk and request a report on what is done on their delivery to ensure all is OK. This shouldn't be a problem and in fact often help the supplier think more about what they're making.

    2. The supplier is making something to customer specifications. Here it can be assumed the customer knows most about what is important and what should be inspected. To ensure this is done then an inspection report (made by the customer) is part of the delivery. Any costs involved with this inspection should have been part of the quote.

    Side tracking and because I've been on both the QC side as well as the QA side and that I've always regarded as "strange" is when a customers "demands" ISO certification and yet still carries out their own audit. What then was the point of ISO certification?

    You want what you specify? Going for the cheapest offer isn't the way to go about that. I've experienced too many times that buying cheap can be expensive.

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    I hear you, but the specific point I'm zeroing in on is: If you have 10 customers, who each have their own Inspection Report Format, how are people out there handling that? This is more a data-collection and reporting admin / management question, not a technical one of adhering to standards, or even when people do or don't do FAI's.

    What I'm examining here in my environment is the fact we have (to date) simply told clients "sure, we'll fill out your report", in an environment that is basically paper based. We are using no "Inspection Reporting Software", no electronic capture from measurement devices, etc. This imposes the obvious overheads in time, effort, over handling, pen and paper marking, followed by having someone act as a manual typist transcribing penned hard-copy to the client's spreadsheet, then finally e-mailing that back to them with their order.

    I need to move us out of paper to something smarter, and this suggests our own "central" Inspection Reporting tool, whether home-grown or commercial. This cycles me back to the "requirement" (or not) for submission back to the client using their formats (?). Or use a data-dump they can import? Or (etc.)

    Some of the replies in the thread are helpful because they suggest others have had to deal with the same DATA COLLECTION,ADMINISTRATION, AND REPORT FORMAT challenge. Some of those answers are along the lines of "you have to ask", or "the client gets the data we send them, they are free to do with it as they see fit" (paraphrasing a bit).

    I get the sense,at least to some degree, it's about being smart in dealing with your customers, provided the approach is viable depending on the customer. Meaning: If you simply present to the customer an open-ended invitation to fill out their reports as your opening gambit . . . then that's the "requirement" you are going to get. Of course. Because you invited it.

    In the end I need to STRUCTURE our Inspection Reporting method to collect, manage, and provide output to our customers in as efficient a manner as possible, and get off of the e-mailed spreadsheets that are printed, man-handled in hard copy across the floor, then re-typed in, etc.

    I greatly appreciate all replies in this thread: It gives me what I need to think this through by providing experienced examples running in the field.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ttrager View Post
    I hear you, but the specific point I'm zeroing in on is: If you have 10 customers, who each have their own Inspection Report Format, how are people out there handling that? This is more a data-collection and reporting admin / management question, not a technical one of adhering to standards, or even when people do or don't do FAI's.

    What I'm examining here in my environment is the fact we have (to date) simply told clients "sure, we'll fill out your report", in an environment that is basically paper based. We are using no "Inspection Reporting Software", no electronic capture from measurement devices, etc. This imposes the obvious overheads in time, effort, over handling, pen and paper marking, followed by having someone act as a manual typist transcribing penned hard-copy to the client's spreadsheet, then finally e-mailing that back to them with their order.

    I need to move us out of paper to something smarter, and this suggests our own "central" Inspection Reporting tool, whether home-grown or commercial. This cycles me back to the "requirement" (or not) for submission back to the client using their formats (?). Or use a data-dump they can import? Or (etc.)

    Some of the replies in the thread are helpful because they suggest others have had to deal with the same DATA COLLECTION,ADMINISTRATION, AND REPORT FORMAT challenge. Some of those answers are along the lines of "you have to ask", or "the client gets the data we send them, they are free to do with it as they see fit" (paraphrasing a bit).

    I get the sense,at least to some degree, it's about being smart in dealing with your customers, provided the approach is viable depending on the customer. Meaning: If you simply present to the customer an open-ended invitation to fill out their reports as your opening gambit . . . then that's the "requirement" you are going to get. Of course. Because you invited it.

    In the end I need to STRUCTURE our Inspection Reporting method to collect, manage, and provide output to our customers in as efficient a manner as possible, and get off of the e-mailed spreadsheets that are printed, man-handled in hard copy across the floor, then re-typed in, etc.

    I greatly appreciate all replies in this thread: It gives me what I need to think this through by providing real-time experience examples running in the field.
    The way I see it is this...

    1) charge a fee for using their inspection methods and build it into the cost of the parts.
    2) create an inspection policy that is more stringent than what your most stringent customer demands and get all your customers on board with using your own in house method.

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  26. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by as9100d View Post
    The way I see it is this...

    1) charge a fee for using their inspection methods and build it into the cost of the parts.
    2) create an inspection policy that is more stringent than what your most stringent customer demands and get all your customers on board with using your own in house method.

    I have always been with number two here.
    The big trick however is that you have to be smarter and better at inspection and process control than your customer and make them understand the how and why. (Hence the ask)
    This can lead to big augments if your customers are Fortune 100.
    You have to herd them in gently as these forms were produced with someone with some personal pride attached and nobody likes to hear "I don't like your system".
    Collecting data just for the point of filling out reports is non-productive time.
    Maybe more than anything ask does this data gathering improve or control what you make and increase your efficiency and quality in the long term.

    If all attempts fail then point one is all you are left with. Somehow this time and effort has to be paid for.
    It is possible to go to purchasing with this and they get involved. This leads to a fight as above but now with the inspection side guys rather upset and carrying a big chip on their shoulder.
    Bob

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    option 2 for us which ironically also includes option 1. Inspections take time...time is money.

    Gordon had it right for those of us that are ISO. We are ISO registered and certified so by the ISO policies and procedures, we should be looking to improve constantly.

    We have 3 types of inspections we do.

    1) Internal tooling and parts that dont leave the building and arent sold. No material trace ability, process doesnt matter as long as it gets done and matches the print.
    2) External tooling that the customer buys and parts that are sold get an F.A.I (a true fai not just a quick inspection with calipers.) Hardness test, material certs, conductivity, etc.
    3) The above that has had a process change like a machine change, outside vendor change, etc get a Delta F.A.I, skip lots of the paperwork but just verify the part matches the print and the cycle times are close, material sizes are the same, etc.

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    Any inspection, measuring or other QC data gathering that does not add value is a waste of resources.
    I'm with Demming on this.
    Unfortunately you will run into QC people not getting this so the game.
    Bob


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