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Thread: I need a CMM

  1. #1
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    Default I need a CMM

    I'm thinking anout 30x30x20
    I'd like a DCC machine because I can get into a lot of work from a customer because they provide the CMM programs.
    Someone tell me about PC DMIS and Open DMIS...
    Just has a Demo of Verisurf. Impressive stuff...

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    Jim, two years ago I bought a Brown and Sharpe ONE775 (700x700x500mm, or 27.5x27.5x20) with a PH10T auto indexing probe head and PC-DMIS CAD. To put it simply: This thing kicks ass. The amount of data you can retrieve from a part is mind blowing.

    The sales guy for my area is awesome. He works straight for Hexagon, and he used to be an applications wiz, so he really knows his shit. I went to their tech center in Irvine with a couple of my more complicated parts, and he knocked em out like nothing.

    I have some enclosures that used to take 45 minutes for a manual inspection, and even then, I wasn't getting all of the info I needed. Now that entire part is checked on the CMM in under 5 minutes.

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    Thanks Joe. That's about the size I'm looking for. I'm just trying to see what I need to know about them in order to make an inteligent decision...

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    Joe's right, PC-DMIS is some good stuff. I ran a Mitutoyo A-710 that had their Geomeasure 6000 software and it sucked with a capital "S". Very difficult for the average or beginner CMM user to pick up and understand. After a year of that BS, we trashed Geomeasure and bought B&S PC-DMIS. What a world of difference! We could now import files and program off-line with ease. However, I built most of our programs by measuring existing parts. It was just faster for me this way because of the nature of the product. I had the privilage to take my advanced PC-DMIS programming course at B&S in Rhode Island. After I got a tour of the plant, I've been sceptical of their reliance on software adjustments and thermal compensation to correct for the machines' construction.

    I noticed in another thread you were having a Zeiss rep. come over to give you his song and dance. I was never a Zeiss customer, but I did spend an entire day down at their facility in Brea, CA demo-ing their Calypso software on one of their Prismo CMM's we were looking to pull the trigger on. After just a couple of hours, I was building programs from parts and from CAD files. Pretty easy to use and navigate. I don't think you could beat the accuracy of a Zeiss but the downside would be the price. You could probably buy another horizontal mill for the price of a Prismo with a Vast Gold head! As I recall, just over 4 years ago the price tag was well over $200k. (But that was a larger size than what you're looking at.)

    I think all CMM software have the ability for variable programming, or Higher Level Language, as some like to call it. It's really nothing more than writing some type of sub-routine for your mill. If your comfortable with IF/THEN statements, etc., the programming possibilities are pretty much endless.

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    find out what brand of cmm your customer has and the version of their software. If you want to use their programs you need to match them. Buying a Zeiss when your customer has a sheffield won't work. If you have one major customer that wants you to have one... talk to his cmm guy in depth.

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    Quote Originally Posted by WILLEO6709 View Post
    find out what brand of cmm your customer has and the version of their software. If you want to use their programs you need to match them. Buying a Zeiss when your customer has a sheffield won't work. If you have one major customer that wants you to have one... talk to his cmm guy in depth.
    Good point...I'm on the phone in a sec...

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    the mistake I made when buying a cmm was thinking it should program like a machine tool - its nothing like that. I have seen pc-dmis - my sheffield actually has Maxlite - a version of sheffield's Measuremax. My first choice was a refurb Zeiss - it sold while I was evaluating options....but you need to talk to your customer - mucho benefit to using the same program for acceptance as manufacture. Also is nice if you need help - have someone to talk to. It depends what you are measuring - but I'd recomened a motorized head and stylus changer - unless its for a specific job where you won't need one.

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    Just found this website, I guess its not quite as big as what you want. But price sure seems good, then again I never looked into the prices of any other cmm's.

    http://www.msi-viking.com/cmm.asp

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    That little Tesa is interesting. Is it just a toy at that price?

    Seams to me that one of the B&S ONE units was about $30K at EASTEC last year.


    Where is the Tumbleweed? He is a CMM pro
    Last edited by ARB; 05-07-2008 at 12:33 AM. Reason: Added pic and fixed spelling

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    A buddy of mine bought one of those Tesa Micro Hite 3D CMMs to compliment his fancy all granite Starret DCC. The shop guys can walk right into the QC dept and measure true positions and diameters in a matter of seconds.

    It's not as accurate as a nice DCC machine, but it's still much quicker and less error prone than trying to measure complex parts the old fashioned way.

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    In Hexagon metrology machines PC DMIS is the software of choice. Decent support as long as you pay the annual sma...which can get pricey depending upon level of software. If you have a version you like and don't need all the "improvements", you can drop the sma, but if you have to match a customer that gets the sma you are tied to it as well. Zeiss uses a different software, as does Mitutoyo. Open DMIS I have never seen, but various people I have spoken to will either praise or say " you don't want to go there". Basically the hghest praise was the guy selling it and I never got far enough to try and find a user. I don't know what you found from your customer's cmm guy...or what you are trying to check. A lot depends on that.

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    That Tesa does sound interesting for us small-timeres.
    I wonder if they will have one at EASTEC to poke and prode.

    My EASTEC list is growing.

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    I know this is retrofit software, but wonder if anyone has experience with it?
    Or is it not nearly as capable as the others mentioned?

    http://www.iq-metrology.com/?gclid=C...FQElHgodOVfLZg

    Is buying a used CMM and retrofitting this software a viable -lower cost- option?

    dk

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    Quote Originally Posted by dkmc View Post
    Is buying a used CMM and retrofitting this software a viable -lower cost- option?

    dk


    There are no lower viable, lower cost options. You should have known this by now...

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    I recently purchased an older Numerex 36x36x18 DCC CMM at auction then hired Alliance Metrology to service the machine and update the software. The end result was a very accurate machine that meets all new specs. with new IQ CMM Manager software. I added a Ram Optical video head to compliment the Renishaw probe and I couldn't be happier.

    For now I have joystick control rather than full DCC but I have less than $20,000 invested. For less than $10,000 more I can have full DCC.

    The guys at Alliance were great to deal with and really knew the Numerex equipment since they all used to work for Zeiss/Numerex.
    Last edited by Techguy; 05-15-2008 at 12:29 AM. Reason: spelling

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    The $64 question:

    What will PC-DMIS do that IQ will not.......?

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    Quote Originally Posted by dkmc View Post
    The $64 question:

    What will PC-DMIS do that IQ will not.......?
    Tether you to B&S-Hexagon with an ever-increasing yearly maintenance contract$$$$$$$$ forever...

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    I added a Ram Optical video head to compliment the Renishaw probe and I couldn't be happier.
    How 'bout a couple pictures.........?

    Ya got me.....
    What does the "Ram Optical video head" do ?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mudflap View Post
    Tether you to B&S-Hexagon with an ever-increasing yearly maintenance contract$$$$$$$$ forever...
    You'd be surprised what you can negotiate into the deal when buying new...

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    The Ram Optical Head is a video camera with a zoom lens and a crosshair generator. It is mounted along side of the Renishaw probe and the software treats it like a second measuring probe. The software has a programmed offset between the two. I can switch between the two probe types in software and combine the results on a single part. For features that I can't probe (like a small chamfer diameter at an odd angle) I use the video camera then use the touch probe for the larger features.

    Hopefully the photos help.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails cmm.jpg   img_1677.jpg  


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