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Looking for an optical comparator: Mitutoyo, Nikon, or J&L or other brand

cgrim3

Cast Iron
Joined
Dec 4, 2020
Location
Baltimore
Hi all,

We have never owned an optical comparator and are looking to buy one. My dad has used them where he used to work but I've never used one. Preferably new but will buy used as well. Preferably under 10 grand. From what I've read online, J&L makes the cadillac but you pay that cadillac price. I've also been looking at mitutoyo ph-a14 and ph-3515F and nikon h14L. Are these models pretty good?

Some people have the micro-vu and deltronic and I have read mixed reviews, so I am shying away from those. Plus I heard it's hard to get parts for deltronics.

I have not looked at Zeiss (assuming they make comparators), but I take it they are out of my price range.

Any other quality brands I am missing (i.e. starrett, brown and sharpe, etc)? We are looking for a benchtop model. I assume the full size floor models are out of my price range.

What options should I get and how many different lenses? Should I get the DRO (probably a no brainer there right?)

If anybody has anything for sale, let me know. I am going to pay for it out of my own pocket to pleasantly surprise my dad. It will be like a good faith present since I plan on taking over the business eventually

Our work varies from small 1/2" long 1/8" OD turned parts to 20"+ long shafts. Mostly lathe work with second op mill work. Sometimes we do straight mill work with no lathe work but 90 percent of our work is lathe work as a first op
 
Other brands I might consider are dorsey metrology, and vision. Any thoughts? I am new to the optical comparator so would need some guidance.
 
Any other quality brands I am missing ... We are looking for a benchtop model.
You might give MicroVu another look.

What options should I get and how many different lenses?
Having both silhouette and reflected illumination is a good thing.

Lenses (if that's even an option) depend on your feature size. As my eyes get older, I like to have the minimal radius I need to work with project on the screen about 1/8" across. So that would be an "at least" magnification. At the other end of the scale, I like to have the entire checkable feature on screen at the same time. So that gives an "at most" magnification.

Keep in mind that depth of field (focus) is going to be shallow and noticeably more shallow as you go to higher magnifications.

Should I get the DRO
I'd say that's extremely optional, unless 1) you have features more than 1 full indicator travel apart which need to be distance checked, or 2) you are using SPC and want to enter measurements into your process control directly from the comparator. If you are just checking local features for size and shape and not capturing measurements, the usual dial indicator or micrometer is usually sufficient.
 
I think the guy selling this one is a good friend of mines neighbor. If you want to try and ship I can find out more details. Probably too far to risk shipping??

Vintage Bench Comparator - tools - by owner - sale

Text of the add:
1942 Jones & Lamson bench comparator. You won't see another one like this. I just had it completely serviced by a certified J&L technician. Great machine for parts inspection/quality control. It works great! $300
 
I emailed your neighbor's friend and asked about it. I think that would be perfect for right now. The question is, can I still get parts for it?

Would you guys generally recommend buying new or used for comparators?
 
ST, Scherr Tumicco.
Earlier metal 14s very nice and robust, later ones a stage more like Mits 14s which are well...flimsy.
OGP also good stuff.

20 inch part checking means a big machine so this puts you into a 30 screen floor style if you really need this.
Two big price things, lens if different power needed and mirrors if not in good condition. I will double the mirror as these often cleaned by idiots with windex and paper towels.
Digital readout are sort of a must have if used very often but I use them a lot, say every 5 minutes or so at 50 and 100x.
At these mags surface illumination is basically worthless unless one turns off all lights in the building.

What is your price range and tolerances to be checked?
At 10 and 20x the width of the line on the screen can eat a lot of your tolerance.
Bob
 
I have the Mitutoyo PH-A14. It's worked fine for me for over 10 yrs.

When I bought it I also got the readout and tray for it to sit on, base cabinet, 10X and 20X lens.
I didn't bother with the fancy edge detection. I also have a radius overlay. I also get it calibrated every 2 yrs.
 
Booze Daily, did you buy your comparator new or used?

Bob, I am paying for it out of pocket so I would say less than 10 grand would be ideal. Tolerance would vary, but I am noticing a lot of comparators are able to measure within 50 millionths and within 1 minute angle which is pretty good for us. Just so many brands and makes/models it's hard to choose from.
 
50 millionths on the readout and 50 millionths measuring capability are very different things in this world.
This 100 to 200x territory. That rare to find and it gets much worse if the part is round.
You are hitting wavelength of white light problems here and darn good aligned telecentric optics. Very few people can do this even with the highest dollar machines.
Bob
 
I've not seen Bausch & Lomb mentioned. I have a vintage
bench top model that has served me well many years. Small stage that has X/y micrometer heads calibrated .0001, can also be set with gage blocks. Great for checking threads and angles point to point. Different realm than what some folks need, but I'm not in a controlled atmosphere.
spaeth
 
Whatever brand of comparator you buy make sure that you get a good complement of tooling for it. Different size V-blocks, a pair of centers, stops, that kind of stuff. Also charts like radius charts are very handy. I spent a lot of time at a comparator doing precision grinding in my working years. We used J and L in our plant and had dozens of them if not hundreds. I think they decided on a brand and stuck with it so our trades people could repair them and if you know how to use one you knew how to use them all.

We did get a huge one in our tool and gauge department that had a screen about 36 inches or so and it had a big hood around it for light control. Very seldom saw it being used though.
 
If I buy a used model, no mater what it is, would you guys recommend I get it calibrated before using? And perhaps take it apart to inspect internals before I write the check?

Definitely want to see the guy I buy it from use before buying to make sure it is fully functional
 
finding a comparator to measure 20+ in length is going to be expensive even used.
I bought a Micro-vu in 1996? its a floor stand up one 16" still use it every day about 10-20 times a day. it gets calibrated every year never had anything break and nothing ever needed to be adjusted YET. It came with the dros/computer system handy as can be. its range is just shy of 11 inchs in X
heres some draw backs on it.
It use's old type bulbs for illumination both surface and reg. plain and simple it sucks for surface ilumination. ( Im in the process of modifying it with the fiber optics adjustable ones)
Thats it the only 1 the surface illumination.

what I should have gotten was edgefinder on it. I highly recommend them.

I do tiny lathe work which I org bought it for, checking rads that are + or - .003 small edge breaks that are .005 max grooves that are .002 and bigger. fillet rads at .003 max. saying all that I should have bought the 50x lens but I didnt. I got a 10x and a 20x. it works but strains the eyes.

I use it for mill work also checking rads using surface illumination and molds of rads. The light screws things up yellow tinted light sucks and is dim. Been using a small led dental flashlight for surface illumination for about 4 years works great bright as can be.

were I used to work 25+ years ago we had 36" and bigger J&L's I believe. we had up to 100x len's as well. we used them to check lead screws we manufactured.

My customer has a deltronics bench top with fiber optics surface illumination and edge detection. That thing is super nice and extreamly accurate. the lighting system is fantastic (why I am updating my lighting) and I like the color of the light on it, as its easier on the eyes.
I was told last year Deltronics isnt making there optical comparators anymore. which sucks cause there one of the best in my opinion.

Years ago I played with the mits there nice but no better than the Deltronics and to be honest no better than the Micro-vu . reason I got the microview back then was I needed one immediately mits were on back order and the deltronics was sold that morning at the tool store that carried deltronics and the mits and usually had them in stock. the guy said there was a micro-vu at the machine show in phoenix. I called the guy told him I wanted it and was coming to pick it up. he said it was a floor display model and I would have to wait. showed up loaded it in my truck that friday afternoon right out of the show. people were cool back then plus cash talks LOL.

Also I didnt get any tooling, That weekend I made centers and v blocks for it. still have them on the machine today. so make sure if you can get tooling

heres the fiber optic light system I am using for my micr-vu
McMaster-Carr
 
finding a comparator to measure 20+ in length is going to be expensive even used.
I bought a Micro-vu in 1996? its a floor stand up one 16" still use it every day about 10-20 times a day. it gets calibrated every year never had anything break and nothing ever needed to be adjusted YET. It came with the dros/computer system handy as can be. its range is just shy of 11 inchs in X
heres some draw backs on it.
It use's old type bulbs for illumination both surface and reg. plain and simple it sucks for surface ilumination. ( Im in the process of modifying it with the fiber optics adjustable ones)
Thats it the only 1 the surface illumination.

what I should have gotten was edgefinder on it. I highly recommend them.

I do tiny lathe work which I org bought it for, checking rads that are + or - .003 small edge breaks that are .005 max grooves that are .002 and bigger. fillet rads at .003 max. saying all that I should have bought the 50x lens but I didnt. I got a 10x and a 20x. it works but strains the eyes.

I use it for mill work also checking rads using surface illumination and molds of rads. The light screws things up yellow tinted light sucks and is dim. Been using a small led dental flashlight for surface illumination for about 4 years works great bright as can be.

were I used to work 25+ years ago we had 36" and bigger J&L's I believe. we had up to 100x len's as well. we used them to check lead screws we manufactured.

My customer has a deltronics bench top with fiber optics surface illumination and edge detection. That thing is super nice and extreamly accurate. the lighting system is fantastic (why I am updating my lighting) and I like the color of the light on it, as its easier on the eyes.
I was told last year Deltronics isnt making there optical comparators anymore. which sucks cause there one of the best in my opinion.

Years ago I played with the mits there nice but no better than the Deltronics and to be honest no better than the Micro-vu . reason I got the microview back then was I needed one immediately mits were on back order and the deltronics was sold that morning at the tool store that carried deltronics and the mits and usually had them in stock. the guy said there was a micro-vu at the machine show in phoenix. I called the guy told him I wanted it and was coming to pick it up. he said it was a floor display model and I would have to wait. showed up loaded it in my truck that friday afternoon right out of the show. people were cool back then plus cash talks LOL.

Also I didnt get any tooling, That weekend I made centers and v blocks for it. still have them on the machine today. so make sure if you can get tooling

heres the fiber optic light system I am using for my micr-vu
McMaster-Carr

Agree about if needing 0-20" length will be expensive. We have a micro-vu with about a 8x8x6(z)" (?) work area. It does from 31x - 191x magnification. As bob said, when you get to higher mags, lighting will make a difference. Ours seems to work great as our work gets verified in a lab. So *we* are confident using it to measure down to a few tenths.
 
So I got off the phone with a guy selling a used mitutoyo ph-a14. He said the table is made of aluminum. Have you guys had any problems with denting or scratching the table? I thought the table would be made of steel but I guess the aluminum keeps the weight down for a benchtop unit.
 
So I got off the phone with a guy selling a used mitutoyo ph-a14. He said the table is made of aluminum. Have you guys had any problems with denting or scratching the table? I thought the table would be made of steel but I guess the aluminum keeps the weight down for a benchtop unit.


You are not supposed to use it as a anvil. :)
If my choice was a between a Mits and J&L PC 14 I'd take the Mits anyday.
The J&L could carry a small crankshaft, the Mits will not.
Mirrors have been my second most expensive maintenance Items. Light bulbs being number one.
Some of the bulbs used in older are from movie projectors and getting very hard to find not to mention the short rated life.
The front surface mirror for a old machine can be just about impossible to find. You can't just go to your local glass shop and have one cut to fit here.

Overlays for a 14 can be printed on a laser or ink jet on 8 1/2 x 11 transparency sheets using a simple CAD. One has to check the "printer growth" and scale X&Y maybe a touch different and know that the magnification in all quadrants is the same. Over many years these cheap overlays distort so best to put in some size check lines.
This brings us to mirror alignment if the machine moved or shipped. My first job in gauging was field setup and calibration of optical comaprtors.

Serious deep pocket places will do a calib check every year. In most cases I think once every five or more years workable.
If not moved or abused maybe 20 years.

You need size to handle the parts, mag to handle the tolerances and then you will wonder why you took so long to buy one.
To me this and toolmaker scopes for small are right after buying a decent gage block set and micrometers.

I think no matter what you buy you will find it a useful tool. I'd stay away from anything under a 14.
Bob
 
You are not supposed to use it as a anvil. :)
If my choice was a between a Mits and J&L PC 14 I'd take the Mits anyday.
The J&L could carry a small crankshaft, the Mits will not.
Mirrors have been my second most expensive maintenance Items. Light bulbs being number one.
Some of the bulbs used in older are from movie projectors and getting very hard to find not to mention the short rated life.
The front surface mirror for a old machine can be just about impossible to find. You can't just go to your local glass shop and have one cut to fit here.

Overlays for a 14 can be printed on a laser or ink jet on 8 1/2 x 11 transparency sheets using a simple CAD. One has to check the "printer growth" and scale X&Y maybe a touch different and know that the magnification in all quadrants is the same. Over many years these cheap overlays distort so best to put in some size check lines.
This brings us to mirror alignment if the machine moved or shipped. My first job in gauging was field setup and calibration of optical comaprtors.

Serious deep pocket places will do a calib check every year. In most cases I think once every five or more years workable.
If not moved or abused maybe 20 years.

You need size to handle the parts, mag to handle the tolerances and then you will wonder why you took so long to buy one.
To me this and toolmaker scopes for small are right after buying a decent gage block set and micrometers.

I think no matter what you buy you will find it a useful tool. I'd stay away from anything under a 14.
Bob

Not sure of size, or if this is even in the ballpark, but used to be bulbs for DLP tv's were expensive (Sony brand, what I had, were around $200) but they have come down in price alot...

https://www.amazon.com/s?k=movie+projector+bublbs&i=industrial&ref=nb_sb_noss
 








 
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